So does intellect get us closer to truth than emotion?

[humble soul]

Both are flawed imo. Yes I have heard of "faith and reason".
I prefer emotion though I know it can lead us in the wrong direction. Look at cults. They play on us not questioning a cult leader. And I'm not a fan of those people who start crying when they sing worship songs. That's overemotionalism.
Still some hymns really move me. Lyrics and chords take me to another place. Sacred space. Church would be so dry without music.
And I love most music genres anyway. A Salvation army band can move me with their version of "Abide with Me". Feeling close to God seems important, though I admit it's not everything.
Intellectual faith I don't rate as highly. Because of my low intellect? ?
Just I don't trust thoughts as much as emotion. Thoughts can get us into so many knots. Emotion can release that.

 

[evenifigoalone]

Emotions exist for a reason, it helps us as humans relate to and communicate with each other.

 

[stovebolts]

Love the Lord with all your....
Our emotions, intellect and works ( what we do) all need to be in balance.
If one is neglected, harmony is disrupted.

 

[Edward]

Love the Lord with all your....
Our emotions, intellect and works ( what we do) all need to be in balance.
If one is neglected, harmony is disrupted.

You said a mouthful there Brother. That's a profound statement. I agree with you too.

There's hardly any harmony though, maybe 80% or more have no harmony within. (But harmony is growing). What harmony is this? Well you said it, emotions, intellect and works. Smothered in a measure of faith. This is what is being taught now, to the church. Jesus is coming back for His Bride and she will be without blemish.

So there's some pretty big fish in the pan in the world today. As well as in the the spiritual realm. I believe the Lord has begun pouring out His Spirit on all flesh. But this will bring great division so cherish these last few quiet days at home.

If the believing Brothers and Sisters do not achieve harmony within themselves, their likely to fall. Now, our emotions are linked to us through our heart, right? And our heart is linked to our spirit (the Lord looks at the heart). So our heart must be in agreement with our mind. And this is the key to walking with God. To, answered prayers, healings, deliverance, protection...everything.

When the emotions agree with the mind and a prayer is spoken and sent up, it moves the Kingdom of God. Like that moment when the mother sees her child pinned beneath a crashed automobile, and so she lifts the car off of the child and saves him. (And she didn't speak & pray, she just had harmony within her being and her heart and emotions both agreed at that moment with her mind and she reached out in faith to perform the feat of works, so it happened).

Even a sigh can be a prayer if it happens in harmony.

Our two tools that we have that allow us to achieve harmony with God, are prayer and absorbing His Word.

 

[Who Me]

don't trust thoughts as much as emotion. Thoughts can get us into so many knots. Emotion can release that.

The question is 'Does the intellect get us close to truth than emotion?'
Truth is that which most accurately reflects reality. While people may have an emotional attraction to the truth, it ha to be understood with one's mind.

Emotions can be manipulated and people helpped to believe that which is not true because of emotions.
Trut can be manipulated by the use of half truths, misleading information and lies.
Both states are corrected by an examination of what is true.

There is nothing wrong with emotions and feelings, but they should never be allowed to be the only arbiter of right and wrong, just as an intellectual appreciation of the true should not be divorced from a heartfelt understanding of truth.

In other forums posters write about a problem. 9 times out of 10 there problem is 'a felt' problem, they 'don't feel' right spiritually, they can't ' feel ' God and because of those concentration on what they feel they cannot help themselves.

Christianity is about historical facts. One can accept or reject them what one feels about them is irrelevant.

The feeling comes in as one lives a disciplined life of obedience to Jesus. As he said, I f you Love me you Will Obey Me!

 

[humble soul]

Christianity is about historical facts.

If that were the case, there would be no such thing as Christian faith.

 

[jasonc]

our faith can not be real and devoid of emotion .

the thought of heaven will be an emotional experience .

 

[humble soul]

If we are not drawn emotionally to Jesus Christ and Christianity, our faith would be a dry , arid desert. I would look elsewhere.

 

[humble soul]

Gregorian chant in a monastic setting. Monks without music would be like a painter without paint. It gets us in the mood for prayer. It provides a spiritual landscape for us to feel more intimately God's presence.

 

[humble soul]

You said a mouthful there Brother. That's a profound statement. I agree with you too.

There's hardly any harmony though, maybe 80% or more have no harmony within. (But harmony is growing). What harmony is this? Well you said it, emotions, intellect and works. Smothered in a measure of faith. This is what is being taught now, to the church. Jesus is coming back for His Bride and she will be without blemish.

So there's some pretty big fish in the pan in the world today. As well as in the the spiritual realm. I believe the Lord has begun pouring out His Spirit on all flesh. But this will bring great division so cherish these last few quiet days at home.

If the believing Brothers and Sisters do not achieve harmony within themselves, their likely to fall. Now, our emotions are linked to us through our heart, right? And our heart is linked to our spirit (the Lord looks at the heart). So our heart must be in agreement with our mind. And this is the key to walking with God. To, answered prayers, healings, deliverance, protection...everything.

When the emotions agree with the mind and a prayer is spoken and sent up, it moves the Kingdom of God. Like that moment when the mother sees her child pinned beneath a crashed automobile, and so she lifts the car off of the child and saves him. (And she didn't speak & pray, she just had harmony within her being and her heart and emotions both agreed at that moment with her mind and she reached out in faith to perform the feat of works, so it happened).

Even a sigh can be a prayer if it happens in harmony.

Our two tools that we have that allow us to achieve harmony with God, are prayer and absorbing His Word.

Ok harmony it is ...sounds good..I like it

 

[humble soul]

"Love the Lord with all your heart, mind and soul. ". Maybe the soul part is harmony.

 

[Edward]

"Love the Lord with all your heart, mind and soul. ". Maybe the soul part is harmony.

I think the harmony is when the spirit and mind are in agreement, of one accord. That makes sense , right? And would you agree that, harmony between our emotions and intellect is essentially between spirit and mind. Just a different way of expressing it I think.

The soul, I am not real sure about other than it is the seat of our mind/will/emotions, but that's just how it's wired in I think? It must have a bigger overall role don't you think? I *think* our soul may contain our personality also and as we go through life and make choices...we essentially do much of the creative development of our soul, into something good or something bad? Like the hard drive on a computer. It comes with no data on it but a seed of instinct and nature that the Lord put in there at first. And one day we may be answering the question, so what did you do with the life I gave you? And He needs only glance at the hard drive so to speak...?? That's conjecture of course but I do think it's wrong to use terms of spirit & soul interchangeably because they're separate yet one.

 

[Prycejosh1987]

Of course, mentality helps and is formed on intellect, and wisdom and knowledge.

 

[Who Me]

If that were the case, there would be no such thing as Christian faith.

1 For 15:12-19 a logical account that if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ has not been raised and we are still in our sins..

Atheistic historians accept a number of minimum historical facts.
Jesus existed.
He was crucified
He was burried
His tomb was found to be empty
The disciples believed they had met the risen Jesus.

You can check it out with Dr Greg Habermas or William lane Craig, they both do on line and you tube lectures about the resurrection, or read Lee Strobel's The Case for Christ.

The point is simple, No resurrection, No Christianity.

This is all facts, how one reacts to it might be emotion. But emotion or feelings will not prove or disprove any part of the case for the resurrection.

 

[Randy]

Both are flawed imo. Yes I have heard of "faith and reason".
I prefer emotion though I know it can lead us in the wrong direction. Look at cults. They play on us not questioning a cult leader. And I'm not a fan of those people who start crying when they sing worship songs. That's overemotionalism.
Still some hymns really move me. Lyrics and chords take me to another place. Sacred space. Church would be so dry without music.
And I love most music genres anyway. A Salvation army band can move me with their version of "Abide with Me". Feeling close to God seems important, though I admit it's not everything.
Intellectual faith I don't rate as highly. Because of my low intellect? ?
Just I don't trust thoughts as much as emotion. Thoughts can get us into so many knots. Emotion can release that.

I think its the Spirit of God/prophecy who bears witness of Jesus.

For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.

Yet even the intelligent can believe in the message that is called foolish by the enemies of God. For God's grace isn't limited.

They traveled through the whole island until they came to Paphos. There they met a Jewish sorcerer and false prophet named Bar-Jesus, who was an attendant of the proconsul, Sergius Paulus. The proconsul, an intelligent man, sent for Barnabas and Saul because he wanted to hear the word of God. But Elymas the sorcerer (for that is what his name means) opposed them and tried to turn the proconsul from the faith. Then Saul, who was also called Paul, filled with the Holy Spirit, looked straight at Elymas and said, “You are a child of the devil and an enemy of everything that is right! You are full of all kinds of deceit and trickery. Will you never stop perverting the right ways of the Lord? Now the hand of the Lord is against you. You are going to be blind for a time, not even able to see the light of the sun.”

Immediately mist and darkness came over him, and he groped about, seeking someone to lead him by the hand. When the proconsul saw what had happened, he believed, for he was amazed at the teaching about the Lord.

 

[humble soul]

Jesus existed.
He was crucified
He was burried
His tomb was found to be empty
The disciples believed they had met the risen Jesus.

Ok you have 5 facts here do you ?
1. That's not many facts
2. A tomb being empty doesn't prove ressurection.
3. Do all atheists accept these as facts?
4. Is the last one a fact.? Sounds like an assertion. Is a belief a fact?

 

[Who Me]

Ok you have 5 facts here do you ?
1. That's not many facts
2. A tomb being empty doesn't prove ressurection.
3. Do all atheists accept these as facts?
4. Is the last one a fact.? Sounds like an assertion. Is a belief a fact?

No they are not my facts they are the result of research done by Dr Greg Habermas who has read the research, books, papers and corresponded with every historian who works in the field of middle Eastern and Christian history.
They are a minimal set of facts, not a list of all the facts but the lowest common denominator held by the maximum number of historians.

Empty tomb, proves that it is empty! Radicle stuff especially when it is accepted that Jesus was burried.
What happened to the body?
Options he wasn't dead. Highly unlikely the Romans were experienced killers and face the death penalty if a condemned man escaped.
He swooned, again how did a breathing body get past the Romans. Assume he did, so he was tightly wrapped in a shroud and left unattended for the best part of three days. Then he had to get up still tightly wrapped and move a very heavy stone, which would be served, sealed etc so it didn't roll away, then convince the guard that this near dead person was a supernatural apparition, ditto he disciples etcis this seeming a reasonable account to you or just unbelievable?
Next option they went to the wrong tomb or the tomb owner moved the body.
The tomb owner was well known, a member of the Sanhedrin, the location of his tomb would be easy to find. If Joseph moved the body, he would need permission from the Sanhedrin and from Pilate so the new location of the body would be known. So again just not reasonable.
The disciples stole the body! A bunch of cowardly custards had the nerve to sneak past a squad of alert Roman guards, open a sealed tomb and remove the body, without being challenged by the guards. Believable or a fairy tale.
That leaves only that the body came to life, was moved miraculously and that angels moved the stone, while also terrifying the guards.

Those are the explanations, which ones do you think is reasonable.

I ve answers do atheists believe them, I'll name one Bart Erhman, an atheist who accepts the minimal facts of the resurrection.

Why the last one, that they accept that the disciples believed they had met the risen Jesus.
Very simple, to put it any other way is to recognise that Jesus did rise from the dead, that he is God and that they need to deal with him in there lives.
It is an attempt to keep Christianity in the realms of irrational emotional reactions that ha nothing to do with reality today.

 

[humble soul]

No they are not my facts they are the result of research done by Dr Greg Habermas who has read the research, books, papers and corresponded with every historian who works in the field of middle Eastern and Christian history.
They are a minimal set of facts, not a list of all the facts but the lowest common denominator held by the maximum number of historians.

Empty tomb, proves that it is empty! Radicle stuff especially when it is accepted that Jesus was burried.
What happened to the body?
Options he wasn't dead. Highly unlikely the Romans were experienced killers and face the death penalty if a condemned man escaped.
He swooned, again how did a breathing body get past the Romans. Assume he did, so he was tightly wrapped in a shroud and left unattended for the best part of three days. Then he had to get up still tightly wrapped and move a very heavy stone, which would be served, sealed etc so it didn't roll away, then convince the guard that this near dead person was a supernatural apparition, ditto he disciples etcis this seeming a reasonable account to you or just unbelievable?
Next option they went to the wrong tomb or the tomb owner moved the body.
The tomb owner was well known, a member of the Sanhedrin, the location of his tomb would be easy to find. If Joseph moved the body, he would need permission from the Sanhedrin and from Pilate so the new location of the body would be known. So again just not reasonable.
The disciples stole the body! A bunch of cowardly custards had the nerve to sneak past a squad of alert Roman guards, open a sealed tomb and remove the body, without being challenged by the guards. Believable or a fairy tale.
That leaves only that the body came to life, was moved miraculously and that angels moved the stone, while also terrifying the guards.

Those are the explanations, which ones do you think is reasonable.

I ve answers do atheists believe them, I'll name one Bart Erhman, an atheist who accepts the minimal facts of the resurrection.

Why the last one, that they accept that the disciples believed they had met the risen Jesus.
Very simple, to put it any other way is to recognise that Jesus did rise from the dead, that he is God and that they need to deal with him in there lives.
It is an attempt to keep Christianity in the realms of irrational emotional reactions that ha nothing to do with reality today.

In a sense Christian faith is irrational though. We Christians are taking a gamble. A calculated risk you might say. We are putting all our faith in a book. (Catholics will add Church Fathers)
I will be honest that I have my doubts that Jesus really died to save our souls. But I will always have a grain of belief that it might be true. It is the greatest story ever told. The only myth that is true.

 

[Who Me]

In a sense Christian faith is irrational though. We Christians are taking a gamble. A calculated risk you might say. We are putting all our faith in a book. (Catholics will add Church Fathers)
I will be honest that I have my doubts that Jesus really died to save our souls. But I will always have a grain of belief that it might be true. It is the greatest story ever told. The only myth that is true.

As Pascal put it:- if Christianity is true I loose nothing and gain everything.
If it is false, again I loose nothing as I live by the highest moral standard to the benefit of society.

Or you have Jim Elliott,
He is no fool who gives up what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot loose.

When we look at the alternatives, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, atheism, paganism.
What do they offer, only to strive, to work to seek to please the object of worship with no certainty.

Compare it to Christianity, in spy 2:8+9 we are saved by faith, this is the gift from God.
Jesus said several times those who are mine I will never let go of or cast out.

Salvation is a gift we receive and it contain the promise of certainty.

This is from the Bible, which historians acknowledge as being historical accurate.

Intellectual, emotionally I can trust my saviour.

 

[humble soul]

As Pascal put it:- if Christianity is true I loose nothing and gain everything.
If it is false, again I loose nothing as I live by the highest moral standard to the benefit of society.

Or you have Jim Elliott,
He is no fool who gives up what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot loose.

When we look at the alternatives, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, atheism, paganism.
What do they offer, only to strive, to work to seek to please the object of worship with no certainty.

Compare it to Christianity, in spy 2:8+9 we are saved by faith, this is the gift from God.
Jesus said several times those who are mine I will never let go of or cast out.

Salvation is a gift we receive and it contain the promise of certainty.

This is from the Bible, which historians acknowledge as being historical accurate.

Intellectual, emotionally I can trust my saviour.

I like pascal