Bible Study "So, how does one know a true teacher?"

[cj]

This was a question asked in a now locked topic.

Unfortunately the topic got locked on a post that had the very misleading conclusion as follows.....

"So, how does one know a true teacher? If they're part of the true church. How does one know the true church? It will have prevailed, and continued to this day."

This is an absolutely improper answer to the asked question.

Why?

Because it is not scriptural, and thus ungodly in source.

Nothing in scripture says that a person can know the true teacher by confirming they are of a the true church; which you can know is the true church by its prevailing and continuing.

And if anyone says this is a scriptural answer they are ignorant of what scriptures say.


The answer to the question is found in Acts 2:42,

"And they continued steadfastly in the teaching and the fellowship of the apostles, in the breaking of bread and the prayers."

Answer,.... the true teacher is one who continues steadfastly in the teaching and fellowship of the apostles.

The first group of believers produced through the apostles' preaching and ministering of Christ on the day of Pentecost continued steadfastly in four things: teaching, fellowship, breaking of bread, and prayers.

Teaching is the unveiling of God's New Testament economy concerning Christ and the church; fellowship is the communion and communication between the believers in their communion and communication with God the Father and Christ the Son; breaking of bread is the remembrance of the Lord in His accomplishing of God's full redemption; and prayer is cooperation with the Lord in heaven for the carrying out of God's New Testament economy on earth.

The first two, teaching and fellowship, conjoined by and to be one group, are of the apostles, but breaking of bread and prayers are not, indicating that besides the teaching and fellowship of the apostles, the believers in Christ should not have any other teaching and fellowship.

In God's New Testament economy there is only one category of teaching revealed and recognized by God  the teaching of the apostles  and only one category of fellowship that is of God and is acceptable to Him  the fellowship of the apostles, which is with the Father and the Son, Jesus Christ (1 John 1:3 and note 3), and which is the unique fellowship of the unique church, the Body of Christ.

The last two, the breaking of bread and prayer, also conjoined by and to be another group, are practices of the believers in their Christian life and are not related directly to God's economy for the keeping of the oneness of the church, the Body of Christ. Hence, they are not of the apostles, who brought in God's New Testament revelation and His fellowship among all the believers in Christ.


And what is this teaching of the apsotles? John tells us as follows.....

1 John  1 : 3, "That which we have seen and heard we report also to you that you also may have fellowship with us, and indeed our fellowship is with the Father and with His Son Jesus Christ."

"That which we have seen and heard.... we report to you..."

Punto finale,....... nothing more.

No added doctrines, no false traditions, no forms.

Just "That which we have seen and heard....." is what was reported.


Teaching is simply the reporting of what one has seen of God.

John himself tells us this.

In our receiving of revelation, hearing is the basic thing; in our preaching, in our reporting, seeing should be the base. What we preach should be our apprehension and experience of the things we have heard.

The apostles heard and saw the eternal life. Then they reported it to the believers that the believers also might hear and see it. By virtue of the eternal life, the apostles enjoyed fellowship with the Father and with His Son, the Lord Jesus. They desired that the believers also enjoy this fellowship.


And now, what is this thing called fellowship?

Can a believer be out of the fellwoship of the apostles and yet remain in a state to teach others according to the teaching of the apostles?

No.

2 Timothy  1 : 15, "This you know, that all who are in Asia turned away from me, of whom are Phygelus and Hermogenes."

The believers in Asia who had formerly received the apostle's ministry now forsook him. In spite of such desertion, the apostle grew stronger in the grace that was in Christ, who is the same and will never change. Not being discouraged, he exhorted his son in faith to persevere steadily in the ministry in the midst of the failure and ruin of the churches.

Believers cannot leave the fellowship of the apostles and still teach in any truth.

2 Timothy 4:10, "For Demas has abandoned me, having loved the present age, and has gone to Thessalonica; Crescens to Galatia; Titus to Dalmatia."


".... having loved this present age...."

As opposed to what? What did they forsake in order to love the present age?

Anyone know what this means in relationship to what Paul was teaching?



But back on point,....

"So, how does one know a true teacher? If they're part of the true church. How does one know the true church? It will have prevailed, and continued to this day."


No saints,... there is no truth in the above answer. Scripture says so.

If you desire to hear true teaching just seek God and He will show you those who remain in the teachings of the apostles and thus remain in their fellowship.

No added thoughts, no added doctrines, no silly traditions (do any here believe the apostles kissed little pictures or flowers at the feet of statues), no becoming a Roman Catholic, or Luthren, or Orthodox, or Baptist, or whatever,...... just be true to God's word, trust God,

.... continued steadfastly in the teaching and the fellowship of the apostles, in the breaking of bread and the prayers."

Everything else is just the wicked vanity of men.


In love,
cj

 

[Orthodox Christian]

Of course, having persisted over time is only ONE of the several characteristics by which might identify the true Church. But let's examine this piece:

And they continued steadfastly

It will have prevailed, and continued to this day

"And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. "

Prevailing and continuing, from scripture. :
'nuff said.

 

[Heidi]

Jesus said we have one teacher and that is the Christ. Jesus Christ is also the Holy Spirit and the Word of God because the bible was written by the Holy Spirit which is the same spirit that dwells inside believers. That is why true believers agree with the bible and Christ's words because they have the same spirit.

The problem is that false teachers also think they have the Holy Spirit so how do we recognize them? Paul tells us how; "For if someone comes to you and preaches a different Jesus other than the one we preached, or you receive a different Spirit other than the one you received or a different gospel different than the one you received, you put up with it easily enough...for such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen masquerading as apostles of Christ."

This includes teachings that Jesus was married or Mary was a virgin all of her life or sinless, or Jesus isn't the only way to God, or that homosexuality is not a sin, and on and on and on. These have nothing to do with the bible and in fact, contradict it. Paul tells us to have nothing to do wtih these people because they make up false doctrines.

 

[Orthodox Christian]

Jesus said we have one teacher and that is the Christ. Jesus Christ is also the Holy Spirit and

No, He is one with the Holy Spirit, one essence and substance. He is distinct from yet equal to, at once indivisible from. To say that He is the Holy Spirit is, like saying that Jesus is the Father, a gross misstatement of who He revealed Himself to be. It is not even Jesus who sends the Comforter, but the Father.

the Word of God because the bible was written by the Holy Spirit

No, the bible was breathed by the Holy Spirit, and written by men moved by the Holy Spirit. The voice of God speaking was and is the Logos, the Word, the breath on which the voice was carried was the Holy Spirit. (Was, and is.)

which is the same spirit that dwells inside believers. That is why true believers agree with the bible and Christ's words because they have the same spirit.

The problem is that false teachers also think they have the Holy Spirit so how do we recognize them? Paul tells us how; "For if someone comes to you and preaches a different Jesus other than the one we preached, or you receive a different Spirit other than the one you received or a different gospel different than the one you received, you put up with it easily enough...for such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen masquerading as apostles of Christ."

This includes teachings that Jesus was married

Perhaps you are aware that the bible is silent on this matter? It neither affirms nor disaffirms Christ's marital status. It is tradition, coupled with the argument from silence that teaches us that Christ was not married.
Why is it important whether He was married or not?

or Mary was a virgin all of her life or sinless, or Jesus isn't the only way to God, or that homosexuality is not a sin, and on and on and on.

That you equate the ever-Viginity of Mary doctrine with denying Christ or accepting non-biblical sexual practices is inexplicable. The bible never declares anywhere that Mary had other children. The argument for her having children is that there is reference to Jesus' brothers. This does not say she was the mother of them, and the fact that her care was given over to John is good evidence against her having other children.
Bottom line, it's disputable. That Christ is the only way, not disputable.

These have nothing to do with the bible and in fact, contradict it. Paul tells us to have nothing to do wtih these people because they make up false doctrines.

False teachers make up false doctrines, that would be expected, yes. A teaching which is in clear variance with the scriptures can be considered false doctrine. Trouble is, there is false doctrine which has scriptural support, also.

So it's not as cut-and-dried as you would make it out to be.

 

[Heidi]

Jesus said we have one teacher and that is the Christ. Jesus Christ is also the Holy Spirit and

No, He is one with the Holy Spirit, one essence and substance. He is distinct from yet equal to, at once indivisible from. To say that He is the Holy Spirit is, like saying that Jesus is the Father, a gross misstatement of who He revealed Himself to be. It is not even Jesus who sends the Comforter, but the Father.

the Word of God because the bible was written by the Holy Spirit

No, the bible was breathed by the Holy Spirit, and written by men moved by the Holy Spirit. The voice of God speaking was and is the Logos, the Word, the breath on which the voice was carried was the Holy Spirit. (Was, and is.)

which is the same spirit that dwells inside believers. That is why true believers agree with the bible and Christ's words because they have the same spirit.

The problem is that false teachers also think they have the Holy Spirit so how do we recognize them? Paul tells us how; "For if someone comes to you and preaches a different Jesus other than the one we preached, or you receive a different Spirit other than the one you received or a different gospel different than the one you received, you put up with it easily enough...for such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen masquerading as apostles of Christ."

This includes teachings that Jesus was married

Perhaps you are aware that the bible is silent on this matter? It neither affirms nor disaffirms Christ's marital status. It is tradition, coupled with the argument from silence that teaches us that Christ was not married.
Why is it important whether He was married or not?

or Mary was a virgin all of her life or sinless, or Jesus isn't the only way to God, or that homosexuality is not a sin, and on and on and on.

That you equate the ever-Viginity of Mary doctrine with denying Christ or accepting non-biblical sexual practices is inexplicable. The bible never declares anywhere that Mary had other children. The argument for her having children is that there is reference to Jesus' brothers. This does not say she was the mother of them, and the fact that her care was given over to John is good evidence against her having other children.
Bottom line, it's disputable. That Christ is the only way, not disputable.

These have nothing to do with the bible and in fact, contradict it. Paul tells us to have nothing to do wtih these people because they make up false doctrines.

False teachers make up false doctrines, that would be expected, yes. A teaching which is in clear variance with the scriptures can be considered false doctrine. Trouble is, there is false doctrine which has scriptural support, also.

So it's not as cut-and-dried as you would make it out to be.

Orthodox, do you not believe Jesus when he said, " I and the father are one"?

Do you also not believe John 1:1-3, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning."?

That says it all. That makes the Word, God, Christ, and the Holy Spirit all synonymous.

Why do you think that Jesus said in John 16: 7, "Unless I go away, the Counselor will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you."

2 Corinthinas 5:13, "Do you not realize you have Christ Jesus living in you?"

There are many more passages where Paul links the Holy Spirit with Christ.

So sorry, I believe the bible over you. Making up false doctrines that contradict the bible is precisely what Paul tells us marks false teachers.

 

[Heidi]

Orthodoxy, our pastor once gave a sermon on "Refuse to speculate where the bible is silent." The devil has a hayday with people who make up gospels which the bible says nothing about, and in fact contradicts these new doctrines. When people start doing that, they invent history.

That leads to things like; Paul had seven wives, one was divorced and the 6 others were unfaithful but they all died. People do this simply because the bible doesn't say whether or not Paul was married.

It can also lead to inventing things like; John killed many men before Christ found him, because the bible doesn't address John's past. These would all be rumors and gossip. Passing around made-up gospels as the truth come from, as Paul says, "deceitful workmen masquerading as apostles of Christ...their end will be what their actions deserve."

But the bible does addresss Christ's brothers and sisters which contradicts the notion that Mary was a virgin all of her life.

So these invented fairy tales are what Paul descripbes as false teachings and why the Gnostics claim that Jesus was married to Mary Magdalene. These come from the imaginations of men and are from the devil in order to deceive people into seeing these as the gospel.

 

[Orthodox Christian]

Jesus said we have one teacher and that is the Christ. Jesus Christ is also the Holy Spirit and

No, He is one with the Holy Spirit, one essence and substance. He is distinct from yet equal to, at once indivisible from. To say that He is the Holy Spirit is, like saying that Jesus is the Father, a gross misstatement of who He revealed Himself to be. It is not even Jesus who sends the Comforter, but the Father.

the Word of God because the bible was written by the Holy Spirit

No, the bible was breathed by the Holy Spirit, and written by men moved by the Holy Spirit. The voice of God speaking was and is the Logos, the Word, the breath on which the voice was carried was the Holy Spirit. (Was, and is.)

which is the same spirit that dwells inside believers. That is why true believers agree with the bible and Christ's words because they have the same spirit.

The problem is that false teachers also think they have the Holy Spirit so how do we recognize them? Paul tells us how; "For if someone comes to you and preaches a different Jesus other than the one we preached, or you receive a different Spirit other than the one you received or a different gospel different than the one you received, you put up with it easily enough...for such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen masquerading as apostles of Christ."

This includes teachings that Jesus was married

Perhaps you are aware that the bible is silent on this matter? It neither affirms nor disaffirms Christ's marital status. It is tradition, coupled with the argument from silence that teaches us that Christ was not married.
Why is it important whether He was married or not?

or Mary was a virgin all of her life or sinless, or Jesus isn't the only way to God, or that homosexuality is not a sin, and on and on and on.

That you equate the ever-Viginity of Mary doctrine with denying Christ or accepting non-biblical sexual practices is inexplicable. The bible never declares anywhere that Mary had other children. The argument for her having children is that there is reference to Jesus' brothers. This does not say she was the mother of them, and the fact that her care was given over to John is good evidence against her having other children.
Bottom line, it's disputable. That Christ is the only way, not disputable.

These have nothing to do with the bible and in fact, contradict it. Paul tells us to have nothing to do wtih these people because they make up false doctrines.

False teachers make up false doctrines, that would be expected, yes. A teaching which is in clear variance with the scriptures can be considered false doctrine. Trouble is, there is false doctrine which has scriptural support, also.

So it's not as cut-and-dried as you would make it out to be.

Orthodox, do you not believe Jesus when he said, " I and the father are one"?

Do you also not believe John 1:1-3, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning."?

That says it all. That makes the Word, God, Christ, and the Holy Spirit all synonymous.

Why do you think that Jesus said in John 16: 7, "Unless I go away, the Counselor will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you."

2 Corinthinas 5:13, "Do you not realize you have Christ Jesus living in you?"

There are many more passages where Paul links the Holy Spirit with Christ.

So sorry, I believe the bible over you. Making up false doctrines that contradict the bible is precisely what Paul tells us marks false teachers.

Do you believe that God the Father died on the cross, Heidi?

 

[cj]

How could I have known that OC would be among the first to respond.

Wnoderful.

Of course, having persisted over time is only ONE of the several characteristics by which might identify the true Church.

This is a good thing,.... admitting that yoy might have been a tad bit short on your answer.

Cool.

But understand this, being of half a degree at the begining of a long journey can be a very costly mistake.

But let's examine this piece:

And they continued steadfastly

It will have prevailed, and continued to this day

"And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. "

Prevailing and continuing, from scripture.
'nuff said.

No, not quite. For you've really said much of nothing OC.


See, once again you place the emphasis on the wrong thing. As usual you placed it on men, at the expense of the priority matter,... that being....

"And they continued steadfastly..... in the teaching and the fellowship of the apostles, in the breaking of bread and the prayers."

Its not that they continued steadfastly, but that they....... CONTINUED STYEADFASTLY IN THE TEACHING OF THE APOSTLES AND THE FELLOWSHIP OF THE APOSTLES, IN THE BREAKING OF BREAD AND THE PRAYERS.

Why would you want to leave that out?

I know,...... so you can put in your own stuff.

Your verse would read..... they continued steadfastly IN THE TEACHING OF THE APOSTLES AND MANY OTHER MEN AND THE FELLOWSHIP OF THE APOSTLES AND MANY OTHER MEN, IN THE BREAKING OF BREAD AND THE PRAYERS.

But unfortunately for the followers of the apostate institutions, the scriptures say nothing about continuing steadfastly in the teachings of men other than the apostles.


REgarding the "prevailing",..... no one is debating that the church prevails, for the church is Christ, and he is victorious.

But what you seek to say is prevailing is a mixture of the things of Christ with the things of men, which is to say, the apostate institution.

Using you reasoning, one could say that anything that has been around for a long time, such as Judaism, is prevailing and thus could be considered the church.

Or is it because the Orthodox make a claim of Jesus that doing so validates their pervailing as the authentic one?


What foolishness.

Tell me, how prevailing did Paul look to be as his head was severed from his body. Or Peter as he hung upside down. Or John, exiled. And thousands of others.

You look at blocks of clay, gold ornaments, forms and traditions of men,.... and you call this.... the church prevailing.

You don't seem to have a clue what Jesus meant OC.


This is what the scripture declears is the prevailing of the church.....

"Therefore take up the whole armor of God that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand....... Stand therefore, having girded your loins with truth and having put on the breastplate of righteousness and having shod your feet with the firm foundation of the gospel of peace; Besides all these, having taken up the shield of faith, with which you will be able to quench all the flaming darts of the evil one. And receive the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which Spirit is the word of God, by means of all prayer and petition, praying at every time in spirit and watching unto this in all perseverance and petition concerning all the saints,..."


In love,
cj

 

[Orthodox Christian]

How could I have known that OC would be among the first to respond.

Wnoderful.
I don't know, maybe because you quoted my words? :

Of course, having persisted over time is only ONE of the several characteristics by which might identify the true Church.

This is a good thing,.... admitting that yoy might have been a tad bit short on your answer.
Actually, I'm admitting that you edited my statement. NOT cool.

Cool.

But understand this, being of half a degree at the begining of a long journey can be a very costly mistake.


[quote="Orthodox Christian":a8e10]But let's examine this piece:

And they continued steadfastly

It will have prevailed, and continued to this day

"And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. "

Prevailing and continuing, from scripture.
'nuff said.

No, not quite. For you've really said much of nothing OC.


See, once again you place the emphasis on the wrong thing. As usual you placed it on men, at the expense of the priority matter,... that being....

"And they continued steadfastly..... in the teaching and the fellowship of the apostles, in the breaking of bread and the prayers."

Its not that they continued steadfastly, but that they....... CONTINUED STYEADFASTLY IN THE TEACHING OF THE APOSTLES AND THE FELLOWSHIP OF THE APOSTLES, IN THE BREAKING OF BREAD AND THE PRAYERS.
You know, I do not recall seeing the bold in any of the translations I've ever read. Not there in the Greek, either.

Why would you want to leave that out?
I simply replied to your implication that prevailing was an extra-biblical insertion on my part, when it was right in your own proof text.
I would have thought that a bit embarassing for you.

I know,...... so you can put in your own stuff.

Your verse would read..... they continued steadfastly IN THE TEACHING OF THE APOSTLES AND MANY OTHER MEN AND THE FELLOWSHIP OF THE APOSTLES AND MANY OTHER MEN, IN THE BREAKING OF BREAD AND THE PRAYERS.
No, my version says "And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. "

But unfortunately for the followers of the apostate institutions, the scriptures say nothing about continuing steadfastly in the teachings of men other than the apostles.

And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Until that end is reached, the unity of the faith, teaching and the development of same will continue.


REgarding the "prevailing",..... no one is debating that the church prevails, for the church is Christ, and he is victorious.

But what you seek to say is prevailing is a mixture of the things of Christ with the things of men, which is to say, the apostate institution.
Nah, you're just putting words in my mouth again.

Using you reasoning, one could say that anything that has been around for a long time, such as Judaism, is prevailing and thus could be considered the church.
The argument from antiquity is an authorative argument, but it is not our only argument.

Or is it because the Orthodox make a claim of Jesus that doing so validates their pervailing as the authentic one?
Claims are claims. Claims should be weighed against fact, not rhetoric. You supply rhetoric, not fact.

What foolishness.

Tell me, how prevailing did Paul look to be as his head was severed from his body. Or Peter as he hung upside down. Or John, exiled. And thousands of others.

You look at blocks of clay, gold ornaments, forms and traditions of men,.... and you call this.... the church prevailing.

You don't seem to have a clue what Jesus meant OC.

You have no idea what the Orthodox have been through, writing from your comfortable American den with your PC and your free speech. For 500 years the Orthodox were enslaved by Ottoman Turks, forced to give over their children for marriage, disallowed to practice their faith under pain of death. Many countless thousands of our people were martyred in each decade. Our priests were tortured and killed, our Bishops hung, speared...our churches burned, even our Lambs for the Paschal feast taken, leaving only entrails.
When at long last the yoke of the Ottoman Muslim was cast off in Greece and the Serbia, Macedonia and Romania, soon after came the Armenian genocide, wherein 1.5 million of our people were slaughtered. Move forward a year or two, and the Communist suppression of Christianity began in Russia and in the Ukraine. 35,000 of our priests were interned in Gulags, from 80 bishops in 1917 to 2 bishops in 1926 (imagine almost all the US Senators killed by invaders)...Churches burned, faith outlawed- there were over 35 million people killed in the years of Stalin, the persecutor of the Orthodox.

So our people move to Europe and America, where they are treated with contempt, there were signs saying "Greeks and N***rs not welcome in my own home town in the 1930's.

We know a thing or two about prevailing. Our list of modern martyrs is as long as the scroll of Psalm 119.

Even to this day our people are killed and persecuted in Sudan, Egypt, Bosnia, Malaysia, and yes, Israel.

This is to say nothing of the persecutions we faced under Apostate Byzantine Emperors, or the burning of our Church art and architecture by Iconoclasts, or the subjugation of our peoples in Afrrica and the Middle East by the Muslim conquerors of the 7th and 8th century.

We have been persecuted in every century.


This is what the scripture declears is the prevailing of the church.....

"Therefore take up the whole armor of God that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand....... Stand therefore, having girded your loins with truth and having put on the breastplate of righteousness and having shod your feet with the firm foundation of the gospel of peace; Besides all these, having taken up the shield of faith, with which you will be able to quench all the flaming darts of the evil one. And receive the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which Spirit is the word of God, by means of all prayer and petition, praying at every time in spirit and watching unto this in all perseverance and petition concerning all the saints,..."


In love,
cj

So now you see that it isn't all about gold and forms and what you call traditions of men. There is a fellowship of suffering, and moreover a shared history as God has taken us as a people through many hardships.
That being said, what our ancestors suffered is not a laurel for us. No, the test of our faith and faithfulness is today.

Edited on 10/20 at 12:40 PM to remove an unsubstantiated suggestion on my part about the nature of CJ's experiences in the realm of suffering, with apologies.

[/quote:a8e10]

 

[cj]

Call me when your "evil day" involves more than uncomfortable shoes.

I really have nothing further to say to you here OC.

In love,
cj

 

[Guest]

This Is How To Know

2 Timothy 2:15 "Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth."

If you want to teach, get educated. If you are not educated, beware:

James 3:1 "Not many of you should presume to be teachers, my brothers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly."

 

[Heidi]

Again, the only true teacher we have is Christ. And that is precisely why Paul said not to follow people instead. But, sadly, many Christians do. They follow Luther, Calvin, or the pope. They then cannot be open to the fact that these fallible human beings are wrong so then read the bible through rose-colored glasses. But Christians who have no denominational bias can read the whole bible with open eyes, listening to only what Christ wants us to know. That's again why it is so important to know Christ's words before reading any other part of the bible so that our interpretations will not contradict Christ's words, because Christ is our only true teacher.