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one point about ALL FOODS DECLARED CLEAN - notice that God told us what was given to us as FOOD in Genesis - so if something was not given to us as food then it is not food - it is something else


I have heard this point made before, however, Paul who was taught by Christ, said this -


I know and am convinced by the Lord Jesus that there is nothing unclean of itself; but to him who considers anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean. Romans 14:14




JLB
 
I provided exegesis from the Greek text. Is your meaning from the NKJV more correct than the Greek text of Gal 3:24-25???
you used niv - i used nkjv - it is a difference of translation - if you are talking about pedagogue then i can look closer at that post and reply again
 
I have heard this point made before, however, Paul who was taught by Christ, said this -


I know and am convinced by the Lord Jesus that there is nothing unclean of itself; but to him who considers anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean. Romans 14:14




JLB
true - this is talking about people - not food
 
TF,

You still refuse to acknowledge the info I gave you about kosher food that was ONLY for the Israelites and was NEVER for Gentiles (Ex 19 and Lev 26).

Did Moses get it wrong when the dietary foods were only for the Jews?

Also, Jesus declared ALL foods clean (Mk 7:19). Did He get it wrong?

Oz
show me where God said only israelites were to eat like this
 
true - this is talking about people - not food - if you read it in context


I believe the context of Romans 14:14 is indeed about food.


I know and am convinced by the Lord Jesus that there is nothing unclean of itself; but to him who considers anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean. Yet if your brother is grieved because of your food, you are no longer walking in love. Do not destroy with your food the one for whom Christ died. Therefore do not let your good be spoken of as evil; for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. Romans 14:14-17




JLB
 
it was a wrong theology held by some jews that they were not allowed to eat or associate with gentiles because gentiles were unclean and associating with them would make a jew unclean


Actuall the text says “anything” not anyone.

I know and am convinced by the Lord Jesus that there is nothing unclean of itself; but to him who considers anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean. Romans 14:14


  • Nothing, not no one.
  • Anything, not anyone.
  • It, not they.



JLB
 
TF,

I dealt with Leviticus 11 and the food laws for the Jews.

I can hardly believe you ask this question. Didn't you read Lev 11:1-3 (NIV) when I mentioned Lev 11? I did and it reads:

The Lord said to Moses and Aaron, 2 ‘Say to the Israelites: “Of all the animals that live on land, these are the ones you may eat: 3 you may eat any animal that has a divided hoof and that chews the cud....​

Who did Moses and Aaron address? They were NOT the Gentiles, the Amorites, Philistines, or any other group They were the 'Israelites'. This teaching was for the Israelites.

Please show me from Lev 11 that these dietary laws were addressed to other than Israelites.

Oz
show me where God said ONLY israelites are to eat or live like this

the thing is if God shows you to live like this then great

if God does not show you to live like this then great

but God did not ever say this is only for israelites
 
I believe the context of Romans 14:14 is indeed about food.


I know and am convinced by the Lord Jesus that there is nothing unclean of itself; but to him who considers anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean. Yet if your brother is grieved because of your food, you are no longer walking in love. Do not destroy with your food the one for whom Christ died. Therefore do not let your good be spoken of as evil; for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. Romans 14:14-17




JLB
food sacrificed to idols was the issue

there are many ways food can become unclean as per God's instructions

the thing is food was defined in Genesis when God spoke to adam and noah

there are things God calls food and other things that are not food for you (adam and noah - both non-israelites)

so if you can find a place where God changes His mind and says those things i said were not food are now food that would be different than the issue of food that becomes unclean

iow God did not give us scavengers and carnivores for food - it is medically dangerous to our health to eat carnivores and scavengers

can you do it? - yes for sure - you will not hurt God or your relationship with God by doing this kind of thing

is it wise to do it? - not imo - you will hurt your health by eating like this
 
Brother, I’m with with you on God’s law.

However, you know we don’t sacrifice animals, and put people to death for picking up sticks on Saturday to kindle a fire, and a host of other ordinances that were done away with.


We agree on that, right?



JLB
for sure

the only thing i have been saying is anything God said is good or bad to do is something we should look carefully at to see how we can incorporate into our daily lives AS GOD LEADS

am i telling people to live as i do? - not at all

i am saying read scripture and see what God is saying to you so that you can have more blessing via God's wisdom

imo scripture is best applied to daily living - talking about it and not living it is a waste of valuable time energy space
 
food sacrificed to idols was the issue

there are many ways food can become unclean as per God's instructions

the thing is food was defined in Genesis when God spoke to adam and noah

there are things God calls food and other things that are not food for you (adam and noah - both non-israelites)

so if you can find a place where God changes His mind and says those things i said were not food are now food that would be different than the issue of food that becomes unclean

iow God did not give us scavengers and carnivores for food - it is medically dangerous to our health to eat carnivores and scavengers

can you do it? - yes for sure - you will not hurt God or your relationship with God by doing this kind of thing

is it wise to do it? - not imo - you will hurt your health by eating like this



As long as you are not promoting the idea that eating certain food is a sin, which means you are trying to to right with God by not eating shrimp or
Pork ribs, then that’s great.


There are many Messianic Christians who do this very thing.





JLB
 
the only thing i have been saying is anything God said is good or bad to do is something we should look carefully at to see how we can incorporate into our daily lives AS GOD LEADS


When it comes to obeying Christ, then we must do it.


Which means, did Christ or His Apostles command the Church to:

Keep the Sabbath
Obstain from eating shrimp or pork
Observe feast days


JLB
 
show me where God said ONLY israelites are to eat or live like this

the thing is if God shows you to live like this then great

if God does not show you to live like this then great

but God did not ever say this is only for israelites
Hi Truthfrees and welcome back.

I'm jumping in mid stream here, so I hope I'm not repeating things.

In the beginning, God authorized a vegitetian diet and it wasn't until after the flood that God authorized meat without restriction.

When we read Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy we understand that these writing are for the Israelites and within these books are the 613 Laws to which the Israelites agreed to under the Sinia covenant. The key here is they agreed to follow these laws and they understood, and continue to understand to this day that gentiles are not, nor have ever been under these laws because the gentiles did not enter into that covenant. Yes, that means gentiles are not fully under the 10 commandments and never have been.

In other words, a Jew will not eat bacon because they are in covenant not to. However, they do not condemn, nor are they authorized to condemn a gentile for eating bacon because they understand God is not and will not be judging them for that.
 
As long as you are not promoting the idea that eating certain food is a sin, which means you are trying to to right with God by not eating shrimp or
Pork ribs, then that’s great.

There are many Messianic Christians who do this very thing.

JLB
never have said it is a sin

always have said it is unwise

if people try to connect food to salvation or sin to salvation that also is unwise

salvation comes from God alone - a work of God

what we eat or do is prescribed by God throughout the entire bible - imo it is wise to incorporate as much of God's wisdom into our lives as possible - we will be blessed for doing so

ignoring God's wisdom for eating and living/speaking/doing is unwise and is the source of trouble in our lives

man does not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God - Matthew 4:4 - Deuteronomy 8:3
 
show me where God said ONLY israelites are to eat or live like this

Circumcision was a part of life for the Jews and in context of the Galatian/Corinthian controversy:

Was anyone called after being circumcised? He must not undo his circumcision. Was anyone called in uncircumcision? He must not become circumcised.
1 Corinthians 7:18 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 Corinthians 7:18&version=LEB

Think about it! The Holy Spirit, speaking through Paul, specifically told new Gentile Christians NOT to become circumcised.
God did not ever say this is only for israelites
Actually, the Holy Spirit inspired Paul to tell Gentile Christians not to become circumcised like the Torah Law required. But you know, if a kosher diet helps your digestive system go for it. Just don’t think it helps your Christianity. It doesn’t. Nor does boasting about Torah Law keeping help.
 
Hi Truthfrees and welcome back.

I'm jumping in mid stream here, so I hope I'm not repeating things.

In the beginning, God authorized a vegitetian diet and it wasn't until after the flood that God authorized meat without restriction.

When we read Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy we understand that these writing are for the Israelites and within these books are the 613 Laws to which the Israelites agreed to under the Sinia covenant. The key here is they agreed to follow these laws and they understood, and continue to understand to this day that gentiles are not, nor have ever been under these laws because the gentiles did not enter into that covenant. Yes, that means gentiles are not fully under the 10 commandments and never have been.

In other words, a Jew will not eat bacon because they are in covenant not to. However, they do not condemn, nor are they authorized to condemn a gentile for eating bacon because they understand God is not and will not be judging them for that.
amen - well said

for sure jews choose by their free will to do the things God says as a part of covenant - they are not doing it to be saved - they are doing it because of a covenant they choose to be in - not all jews choose to do these things - it has always been by choice

non-jews can choose to do the same things as a wise choice for life - not to be saved - not to be in covenant - it is and always will be a choice

the things God says are wise - a person can think of them as religious
laws to be obeyed or they can think of them as wise things to do -

if a person (jew or gentile) thinks of them as religious laws to be obeyed they are missing the amazing wisdom contained in them and are UNDER the law - which is ok i guess but not the best

if a person thinks of them as wisdom on how to live the best life possible - an owners manual for life on earth running smoothly - there is no condemnation - only good results - not something to be forced on others - something to be applied by an individual to their own life - something to be loved and treasured - something fun and rewarding

it sounds like i have been sharing the fun side of God's wisdom and people think i have been promoting religious legalism - not sure what to do about it -

i love God's wisdom - i get get rewards from every application of God's wisdom i add to my life - i wish people could see God's wonderful wisdom rather than religious laws - what a shame that such a great treasure is so poorly thought of - as though it is something for only jews and garbage for everyone else
 
Circumcision was a part of life for the Jews and in context of the Galatian/Corinthian controversy:

Was anyone called after being circumcised? He must not undo his circumcision. Was anyone called in uncircumcision? He must not become circumcised.
1 Corinthians 7:18 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 Corinthians 7:18&version=LEB

Think about it! The Holy Spirit, speaking through Paul, specifically told new Gentile Christians NOT to become circumcised.

Actually, the Holy Spirit inspired Paul to tell Gentile Christians not to become circumcised like the Torah Law required. But you know, if a kosher diet helps your digestive system go for it. Just don’t think it helps your Christianity. It doesn’t. Nor does boasting about Torah Law keeping help.
boasting in God's wisdom is all i would like to do - apologies if it sounds like i was doing otherwise - but disparaging torah is worse imo - ignoring God's wisdom is a loss to the person
 
amen - well said

for sure jews choose by their free will to do the things God says as a part of covenant - they are not doing it to be saved - they are doing it because of a covenant they choose to be in - not all jews choose to do these things - it has always been by choice

non-jews can choose to do the same things as a wise choice for life - not to be saved - not to be in covenant - it is and always will be a choice

the things God says are wise - a person can think of them as religious
laws to be obeyed or they can think of them as wise things to do -

if a person (jew or gentile) thinks of them as religious laws to be obeyed they are missing the amazing wisdom contained in them and are UNDER the law - which is ok i guess but not the best

if a person thinks of them as wisdom on how to live the best life possible - an owners manual for life on earth running smoothly - there is no condemnation - only good results - not something to be forced on others - something to be applied by an individual to their own life - something to be loved and treasured - something fun and rewarding

it sounds like i have been sharing the fun side of God's wisdom and people think i have been promoting religious legalism - not sure what to do about it -

i love God's wisdom OT and NT - i get get rewards from every application of God's wisdom i add to my life - i wish people could see God's wonderful wisdom rather than religious laws - what a shame that such a great treasure is so poorly thought of - as though it is something for only jews and garbage for everyone else
Very good words of wisdom

My brother is a vegetarian and mainly eats from his gardens that he maintains 10 months out of the year. He uses all three growing seasons to yield his crops.

He is extreemly healthy and rarely gets sick. Unlike myself.
 
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