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Some Things.. Hard To Be Understood..

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And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To Him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.


Peter (the Apostle to the Circumcision, or Jews) writes in his 2nd Epistle concerning some of Paul's (the Apostle to the Gentiles) writings.. and mentions that some things are hard to be understood..

What are some of the things which you think that Peter is referring to..?

The immediate context is His coming, and His longsuffering.. as well as the Day of the Lord and the judgment to come..

I often think that this is referring to the mystery pertaining to Israel, seeing that Peter is the Apostle to the Jews.. although Peter also writes of making our calling and election sure in the first chapter of this epistle.. so it could be these things as well perhaps..

There's also a serious consequence of mis-applying Paul's words, and that some do this to their own destruction.. serious indeed..

So what are your thoughts on some things hard to be understood ?
 
The same things we discuss here. Predestination, freewill, determinism, righteousness by faith vs works, election, atonement, justification.
 
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Eventide

Christians use that verse, among others, as an excuse to interpret the Bible. There are things in the Bible hard to be understood. The cryptic sayings of Jesus. The mysteries of Paul. The mysticism of John. Only those who are educated can understand the Bible properly. Some will even claim that their educated interpretations are though the aid of or directly from the Holy Spirit. Their only real concession to the existence of the supernatural. And even with all that education, Christians still can’t agree with each other as to what the Bible actually says. It continues to be hard to be understood. Except within denominational boundaries. Christians dividing and practicing exclusive rights to the truth, preaching distinctive Gospels against each other.

Which only goes to prove to everyone except the Christians themselves how natural their religion really is. That their Bible, as they propose to understand it, is just a collection of writings of men. Writings of men long dead that can only be understood through an education in the practice of “proper†Biblical interpretation as it is denominationally understood.

Aren’t you the one who believes that when Christ returns, so will physical Israel and the Tabernacle ritual given to physical Israel to hold as a pre-revelation of the fulfillment of that ritual in Christ?

I know that you think that question has nothing whatever to do with this thread. But to me it goes to show an example as to how some things are considered hard to be understood. As not everyone agrees with the idea of future truth as proposed by a known Christian Futurist. I’m happy to say that in other areas of more importance we are more in agreement.

FC
 
Eventide

Christians use that verse, among others, as an excuse to interpret the Bible.

FC.. just out of curiousity.. what makes your comments any different ? You read the same scriptures and form opinions as to what they mean.. and surely you don't believe that you have it all figured out without error.. or do you ?

So YOU interpret the scriptures just like everyone else.. either that or you believe that you're above everyone else.
 
The same things we discuss here. Predestination, freewill, determinism, righteousness by faith vs works, election, atonement, justification.

Certainly a possibility.. although the context of Peter's epistle is more along the lines of His coming, the Day of the Lord etc.. although as mentioned.. he does speak of making our calling and election sure in the first chapter.

IMO predestination is not a thing hard to be understood.. because the scriptures tell us plainly that we are predestined to the adoption of children by Jesus Christ... and of course we are all children of God by faith in Jesus Christ.

Election on the other hand is one that I think many people get confused over..
 
And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To Him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.


Peter (the Apostle to the Circumcision, or Jews) writes in his 2nd Epistle concerning some of Paul's (the Apostle to the Gentiles) writings.. and mentions that some things are hard to be understood..

What are some of the things which you think that Peter is referring to..?

The immediate context is His coming, and His longsuffering.. as well as the Day of the Lord and the judgment to come..

I often think that this is referring to the mystery pertaining to Israel, seeing that Peter is the Apostle to the Jews.. although Peter also writes of making our calling and election sure in the first chapter of this epistle.. so it could be these things as well perhaps..

There's also a serious consequence of mis-applying Paul's words, and that some do this to their own destruction.. serious indeed..

So what are your thoughts on some things hard to be understood ?

The majority of confusions about Paul's writings to me revolved around the LAW.

Paul both upheld it and decried it.

These are the hardest parts of understanding Paul, which I believe even Peter struggled with, seeing how Paul rebuked him for being a religious hypocrite in Galatians. I'm sure Peter felt pretty slammed by Paul's comments.

But for those with understanding, these are not hard matters. Paul was totally right on both counts, both upholding and decrying the LAW. There is a matter called 'simultaneous truths' which to surface students appear to be in conflict.

Taking one side or the other will produce problems and divisions. This is basically what has happened to the churches. Most have been divided along the lines of law and grace, futilely trying to pit one against the other when both positions are fully true and fully applicable, rightfully applied.

enjoy!

smaller
 
The majority of confusions about Paul's writings to me revolved around the LAW.

Paul both upheld it and decried it.

These are the hardest parts of understanding Paul, which I believe even Peter struggled with, seeing how Paul rebuked him for being a religious hypocrite in Galatians. I'm sure Peter felt pretty slammed by Paul's comments.

But for those with understanding, these are not hard matters. Paul was totally right on both counts, both upholding and decrying the LAW. There is a matter called 'simultaneous truths' which to surface students appear to be in conflict.

Taking one side or the other will produce problems and divisions. This is basically what has happened to the churches. Most have been divided along the lines of law and grace, futilely trying to pit one against the other when both positions are fully true and fully applicable, rightfully applied.

enjoy!

smaller

Certainly possible that this was still an issue although again I don't see the immediate context of Peter's letter being concerned with that per say.. also.. that matter seems to have been resolved in Acts 15 etc. Although Jewish Christians would clearly be concerned with that matter and they seem to be the main audience of Peter's writings.

The immediate context almost makes me think that it's more along the lines of amillennial thinking etc.. Christians ignoring the mystery pertaining to Israel.. that sort of thing.. the Day of the LORD etc..

Interesting just to get various feedback as to what these things are..
 
Certainly possible that this was still an issue although again I don't see the immediate context of Peter's letter being concerned with that per say.. also.. that matter seems to have been resolved in Acts 15 etc. Although Jewish Christians would clearly be concerned with that matter and they seem to be the main audience of Peter's writings.

The immediate context almost makes me think that it's more along the lines of amillennial thinking etc.. Christians ignoring the mystery pertaining to Israel.. that sort of thing.. the Day of the LORD etc..

Interesting just to get various feedback as to what these things are..

Another way of understanding law and grace is works vs. grace.

Israel is another topic, again not easily handled.

There are a myriad of camps of spiritual Israel vs. physical Israel etc.

I believe Paul had a 'spiritual' understanding of Israel which removes it from a purely physical view. On the same token I believe Paul is clear that physical Israel has not been abandoned.

s
 
So far so good on this thread. I like what smaller said. I too see Two simultaneous Truths that appear opposed but exist as a paradox. They would be like two cheribum facing each other. This is why I say the only freewill would be one that would only seek to obey God and not one that would disobey God. There is no contradiction in the term used that way for it agrees with both cheribum in a direction toward the center. The terms of words change accordingly to how one sees and how one sees determines their accusing and excusing. Freedom to me is not the ability to disobey God. For God has left open certain judgments that we must make so as to be sifted and moulded accordingly.
 
So far so good on this thread. I like what smaller said. I too see Two simultaneous Truths that appear opposed but exist as a paradox. They would be like two cheribum facing each other. This is why I say the only freewill would be one that would only seek to obey God and not one that would disobey God. There is no contradiction in the term used that way. The terms of words change accordingly to how one sees. Freedom to me is not the ability to disobey God. For God has left open certain judgments that we must make so as to be sifted and moulded accordingly.

Out of many who post here you MAY see this. Most won't so it doesn't matter.

In Romans 7:21 Paul defines that evil is present with him.

In Romans 12:7 Paul also shows that a 'messenger of Satan' was actually put upon him by God Himself to keep him humble and as a reminder of his weakness.

Now picture these matters if you are able.

A. Paul himself as Gods child was factually under GRACE.

B. The 'evil present' with Paul, which same is OF THE DEVIL, remains under the LAW, and in fact that working is actually exacerbated under the LAW. It is pointless to put that working under the LAW because the LAW was always meant to condemn all lawlessness.

Therefore, the Law is fully effective against the workings of EVIL in anyone which are quite securely connected to the DEVIL. The devil, the evil present within ALL people, believer or unbeliever will NEVER be lawful or legal.

Yet the believer, supposedly knowing the difference between himself and the influences of EVIL THOUGHTS which are in fact SINS and which are in fact OF THE TEMPTER is not to put that working UNDER THE LAW and expecting any other outcome than LAWLESSNESS.

Do you understand?

This is a hard matter to come to grips with on a personal scale 'because' of the presence of the tempter and the access that tempter has been given to the minds and hearts of ALL people.

It's rather simple to understand though once God feeds a slice of humble pie to admit that presence as Paul did.

Peter obviously didn't get it, even though Satan spoke from his own lips. It was also that same tempter that worked in Peter to DENY JESUS 3 times. God in Christ of course knew in advance what the tempter would do IN PETER and declared it to him in advance. God knows what the tempter will do.

enjoy if you can...

smaller
 
Another way of understanding law and grace is works vs. grace.

I think that this would be an issue primarily with respect to Jews who come to Christ (Peter's dominant audience), so it does fit into the context perhaps.. ?

Israel is another topic, again not easily handled.

And although I think that Paul's explanation of the mystery pertaining to the Israel is pretty clear.. there's certainly division over that.. is it because it's one of those things hard to be understood, or is it more along the lines of not remaining ignorant of it. IMO ignorance doesn't necessarily go with things hard to be understood but they could be similar I guess.

There are a myriad of camps of spiritual Israel vs. physical Israel etc.

I believe Paul had a 'spiritual' understanding of Israel which removes it from a purely physical view. On the same token I believe Paul is clear that physical Israel has not been abandoned.

s

Again, hard to be understood or perhaps not willing to be understood ? ?
 
smaller;575984]
In Romans 7:21 Paul defines that evil is present with him.

In Romans 12:7 Paul also shows that a 'messenger of Satan' was actually put upon him by God Himself to keep him humble and as a reminder of his weakness.

Now picture these matters if you are able.

A. Paul himself as Gods child was factually under GRACE.

B. The 'evil present' with Paul, which same is OF THE DEVIL, remains under the LAW, and in fact that working is actually exacerbated under the LAW. It is pointless to put that working under the LAW because the LAW was always meant to condemn all lawlessness.

Therefore, the Law is fully effective against the workings of EVIL in anyone which are quite securely connected to the DEVIL. The devil, the evil present within ALL people, believer or unbeliever will NEVER be lawful or legal.

Yet the believer, supposedly knowing the difference between himself and the influences of EVIL THOUGHTS which are in fact SINS and which are in fact OF THE TEMPTER is not to put that working UNDER THE LAW and expecting any other outcome than LAWLESSNESS.

Do you understand?
I can't be sure what you are getting at yet. You seem to be covering the boundries of man's ineptitude to govern his own spiritual condition in any way apart from God's active presence by grace. Some how even Satan is necessary as you used Paul's messenger of Satan given by God. You also seem to be pointing out that Satan is instigating lawlessness through the law.
 
I can't be sure what you are getting at yet. You seem to be covering the boundries of man's ineptitude to govern his own spiritual condition in any way apart from God's active presence by grace. Some how even Satan is necessary as you used Paul's messenger of Satan given by God. You also seem to be pointing out that Satan is instigating lawlessness through the law.

Aw never mind....
 
Aw never mind....

No, I want to hear it. Come on, try again. I've spent hours mulling it over already. I feel rather disappointed. Peter didn't get it, because he didn't see what? Paul got it because he admitted the presence of Satan. Yes but he asked to take it away. Was he getting it at that time? Now come on, don't leave me hanging.
 
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No, I want to hear it. Come on, try again. I've spent hours mulling it over already. I feel rather disappointed. Peter didn't get it, because he didn't see what? Paul got it because he admitted the presence of Satan. Yes but he asked to take it away. Was he getting it at that time? Now come on, don't leave me hanging.

It's bedtime here in the Rockies. Not trying to be impolite....just getting zzzzzzz

Think on this overnight and get back to me.

There was Paul and there was a devil put upon Paul.

That makes Paul and the devil.

Would you say thee devil or a devil is lawless? I think most of us would agree on that?! We also know the LAW is for the LAWLESS.

Paul was not that devil OR the evil present with him. Think about the 'evil present' as the tempter inserting various thoughts of evil prompted by what? The LAW. Read Romans 7. It's very clear what the law does in relationship to sin -->>> [which is of the devil, see 1 John 3:8], which Paul defined as being with him but NOT HIM. Could you connect the dots and say the tempter was the evil present, PROMPTED by the LAW to insert SIN THOUGHTS in Paul? I think that's very clear. But very few see it.

So, in short. The Law stands fully effective against the tempter and his minions who are found IN MAN.

Paul, as a believer, was Gods child under GRACE. There is a lot more support for this but...

bada bing, bada boom, bada bedtime.

enjoy!

smaller
 
=smaller;576161]
Think on this overnight and get back to me.

There was Paul and there was a devil put upon Paul.

That makes Paul and the devil.
So far so good, Paul is not alone.
Would you say thee devil or a devil is lawless? I think most of us would agree on that?! We also know the LAW is for the LAWLESS.
This is a hard question for me. I would say a devil or the devil is pride and he uses the law of God unjustly. He uses it both to tempt and accuse so he uses the law like a bookie takes bets making money whether someone wins or loses. I agree the law is for the lawless. Does Satan keep the law? He thinks he does, but he surely breaks do unto others as you would want done unto you. And he does not love God with all heart mind and soul. He is pure logic and no empathy. So yeah, according to the Spirit of the law he is bankrupt and lawless.

Paul was not that devil OR the evil present with him. Think about the 'evil present' as the tempter inserting various thoughts of evil prompted by what? The LAW. Read Romans 7. It's very clear what the law does in relationship to sin -->>> [which is of the devil, see 1 John 3:8], which Paul defined as being with him but NOT HIM. Could you connect the dots and say the tempter was the evil present, PROMPTED by the LAW to insert SIN THOUGHTS in Paul? I think that's very clear. But very few see it.
I think I get this. You are talking about the mechanics of how sin is empowered by the law and Satan being the tempter through the desires of the flesh or carnal mind. This mimics the episode in the garden if we count the command to not eat as a law. Yes if I perceive you correctly, I understand that Satan is the evil present in such a capacity. It's not us.
So, in short. The Law stands fully effective against the tempter and his minions who are found IN MAN.
This I am not sure what you mean. It's as if you are saying Satan is condemned under the same law he tempts and accuses with. Take some time with me here and explain this a little more. And if I misunderstand you don't just say "aw forget it".
 
So far so good, Paul is not alone.

None of us are. No person has ever been other than God in Christ in whom Satan had nothing.

Many believers do not and can not understand the fact that when the tempter inserts evil/sin/temptation thoughts this categorically places that entity in the mind and heart.

Believers can't believe it because of the power of that entity. When they can't they only show their blindness imposed by that operator. But Jesus was rather clear on this matter. He also dealt with those various entities 'in man' when He spoke to them and sometimes cast them out and healed the infirmities caused by 'them.'

In the religious folk of His day however He rebuked.corrected.resisted them, but never cast them out. He did without any doubt speak to 'children of the devil' in Pharisees by His Own Statements.

So in short, in order to understand Paul one has to understand this fact and principle. None of us are alone, scripturally speaking.
This is a hard question for me. I would say a devil or the devil is pride and he uses the law of God unjustly. He uses it both to tempt and accuse so he uses the law like a bookie takes bets making money whether someone wins or loses. I agree the law is for the lawless. Does Satan keep the law? He thinks he does, but he surely breaks do unto others as you would want done unto you. And he does not love God with all heart mind and soul. He is pure logic and no empathy. So yeah, according to the Spirit of the law he is bankrupt and lawless.
Jesus said it best right here:

John 8:44
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

That pretty well sums up lawlessness. Satan, the devil is THEE originator of these things IN MAN and is in fact linked to every sin in thought, word and deed.
I think I get this. You are talking about the mechanics of how sin is empowered by the law and Satan being the tempter through the desires of the flesh or carnal mind.
You are in the above already showing the cloudiness of that influence. I don't say that to slur you. For example, you instantly point to the flesh and the carnal mind. That is not the cause. We do not wrestle flesh [Eph. 6.12]. The flesh is a compilation of organic material. The carnal mind is blinded by the god of this world, the devil.

Who then is the culprit? Uh, yeah, point to the obvious.

When Satan enters the heart and steals Word from a person as Jesus showed us here:

Mark 4:15
And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

In the above we have 'entrance of that entity,' and theft, which is a sin committed in that person and NOT the cause of the person and it was STARTED by Word. Now apply that principle to THE LAW! Law is WORD. Word prompts the entry of the THIEF into the PERSON.

Go to the garden and see the planting in Adam of the first Word....BLESSINGS. What then happened? ding ding ding!

And what happened next? Then came the LAW...do not eat. Then came disobedience. Do you seriously think that Satan was not involved in the mind and hearts of both of them given the PRINCIPLE of JESUS above?

It hasn't changed one bit since. Take Peter for another example. God in Christ placed TRUTH in Peter. What happened in Peter in nearly the next breath? Yeah, Satan was speaking through him. Pretty simple really. What happened to Judas? Yeah, Word sown in him by Jesus. What happened to him? That's right. Satan 'entered' Judas.

Now the common blind believer will only blame Adam, Peter or Judas.

None of these blinded ones can see or put their finger on Satan. Why? Because they too have the same internal problem with the DECEIVER in them that is blinding them to the open facts. And guess what else? They don't know it, can't see it, won't be able to say it as a fact for themselves. This is the [missing] mark of blinded believers. It is also why believers are divided, fight and continually bicker. Because of that presence of the deceiver/tempter. I readily admit that presence 'personally' because it's a fact. But I am not alone. The Spirit of Truth, of Christ, is also IN ME, that is 'in the midst' of me dividing me from the tempter. You could count the number of believers who have come to facts on this matter as 'very very few.'

Paul was certainly one of them. The freewill position is annihilated by this fact. No one is free from the entrance of the tempter.
This mimics the episode in the garden if we count the command to not eat as a law. Yes if I perceive you correctly, I understand that Satan is the evil present in such a capacity. It's not us.
Make no mistake. Whatever issues we have with the tempter in thought, word or deed via sin IS OURS to 'deal with.' But sins are not counted against mankind. [2 Cor. 5:19] They are and remain counted against the devil and his messengers and they will pay the Lake of Fire price when they are finally put away. And there are consequences for all of us as well. We all die because of sin. There are personal consequences for SIN right here in this present life.
This I am not sure what you mean. It's as if you are saying Satan is condemned under the same law he tempts and accuses with. Take some time with me here and explain this a little more. And if I misunderstand you don't just say "aw forget it".
A friend of mine has a good take on Satan. He can only 'react' adversely to God as that is how God made him. He is like a robot. Where the Word is sown, he immediately springs to action because that is what he does. He is like a robot. He undoubtedly is the anti-Christ spirit.

If these matters are applied to Paul and the Law-Works vs. Grace subject, every word he wrote is PERFECTLY CLEAR and there is zero room for dispute or misunderstanding.

The devil 'in man' will NEVER obey the Law, nor should we expect him to 'in man.' Those who think they are lawful via jot and tittle simply don't know they have a lawless one in their minds who will NEVER be lawful. So those people are blinded and marked hypocrites and they are so because they can't even be honest about their own 'thought life' in which Satan intrudes. They can not because Satan is in them, blinding them and making them LIARS. That is why Jesus and Paul hated 'legalists.' Not because of the person, but because of the presence of THEE LIAR in them who openly shows his face in HYPOCRISY.

The same understandings dramatically alter how we should view Israel. The Law was sown therein. What then happened? Yes, they were BLINDED. Romans 11:8 is very clear on this matter. And they were so by Gods Intentions.

You see God can pull back the efforts of the blinder any time. When he does, an HONEST believer is the result, easily seen and heard. And they are so by admittance to the obvious matters above. All others remain semi-in-darkness on this particular matter.

I hope the best for all believers, and a few happen to get it along the way.

The balance have my pity and efforts of sharing.

enjoy!

s
 
smaller,

IMO just about every born again Christian would understand that there is deception all around us because of the rulers of the darkness of this world.. although my question to you is this..

Do you believe that the gospel itself is powerless to remove this deception and to transform a person from darkness to light ?
 
smaller,

IMO just about every born again Christian would understand that there is deception all around us because of the rulers of the darkness of this world.. although my question to you is this..

Do you believe that the gospel itself is powerless to remove this deception and to transform a person from darkness to light ?

I would ask you a couple simple questions. Answer honestly if you are able.

A. Do you have evil/sin/temptation thoughts by THE TEMPTER that is not 'you?'

B. Does that make your personal situation 'you' and the 'tempter' as separate entities operating in YOUR mind?

Paul and John are open testimonies to these facts:

Paul had a devil by his own admission, put upon him by God. We can presume a messenger of satan is evil. Paul had 'evil present' with him. It is then logical to say both the tempter and the messenger of satan upon Paul to be that evil present with Paul.

John said sin is of the devil. There is no logical way to avoid the obvious conclusions on these matters.

In short, mankind is NOT alone. There is mankind and there is an entire entity class involved with all people that is not US.

So, you ask me if you are immune?

lol. I find that presentation scripturally preposterous. You are welcome to attribute whatever purity to yourself as Gods child and I would NEVER disagree with that presentation.

But to say that is 'all' you or I or any other believer or any other person is is a flat out LIE imho.

We suffer in this present life 'because' of the immersion of humanity into the world of the devil and the subsequent sins that result from that immersion.

Now, as this pertains to Paul's writings, why do you think he spurned legalists? Because they are lying hypocrites 'within' their own minds, never dealing honestly with their own vile thoughts. Said thoughts being of the tempter, but nevertheless there. Legalism as it pertains to obedience to 'jots and tittles' is outright laughable.

The same with free will. No one stops the tempter from sinning in their minds, period. This categorically removes freewill as preposterous. Externally speaking one might very well appear to make good free will decisions. This does not mean they are being honest about what is going on 'within' them where 'all' evil originates, yes, even in 'believers.' Maybe even particularly so because we are on the front lines of the battles with the real enemies. Some just don't know it or see it. Such are blinded.

Matthew 9:4

And Jesus knowing their thoughts said, Wherefore think ye evil in your hearts?

Matthew 15:19

For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:

Mark 7:21

For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,

This categorically places EVIL within and in the mind. That EVIL is from the tempter. This places the tempter IN our minds.

So then, as it pertains to Grace...is the evil present UNDER GRACE....?

ha! Believers who smear themselves and forget about their evil present with GRACE are sorely deceived. God deals with US as believers and God also deals with the EVIL PRESENT with us in an entirely converse manner.

So here is a surprise for you. Every damnation Word of the Bible can be said to YOU. Why? Because YOU and I and everyone else have EVIL PRESENT with us that is of the TEMPTER.

Surprise!

For the 'determinist' do they think the 'evil present' with them is determined to be forgiven, saved, whatever?

again HA! The same principles that Jesus and Paul and John taught in these matters apply to all of us. These principles eliminate in totality the positions of TULIP and FREEWILL.

Why?

Because none of you take the other side of the the ledgers and apply it to your own conditions.

If we did we'd all do a lot less arguing and a lot more of trying to love each others and spring the other slaves of darkness loose and forget all the false and unsupportable baloney.

enjoy!

s
 
I would ask you a couple simple questions. Answer honestly if you are able.

A. Do you have evil/sin/temptation thoughts by THE TEMPTER that is not 'you?'

Absolutely.. is not this clearly what Paul speaks of in Romans 7.. that evil IS present with me ?

B. Does that make your personal situation 'you' and the 'tempter' as separate entities operating in YOUR mind?

Absolutely, it is no longer I but sin that dwelleth in me.. not too complicated imo.. although that doesn't mean that I would fully understand all that it entails.. would you ?

So, you ask me if you are immune?

lol. I find that presentation scripturally preposterous. You are welcome to attribute whatever purity to yourself as Gods child and I would NEVER disagree with that presentation.

Why would you say something that I haven't said as if I did..?

My question was simple and you will not answer it..

Can the gospel itself set a person free from the lies and deception around them and that result in a person trusting in Christ ?

Or maybe you consider the lies and deception of Satan as more powerful than the gospel itself.. I'm just curious if that's what you actually believe.
 
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