'Speaking in Tongues', true vs false.

[OzSpen]

What I can't understand is , the Pentecostal tongue spoken in Acts, everyone understood in their own language.
In Cor. It speaks that you need an interpreter ....
Not the same to me.

Diane,

That's an important understanding that I endorse. The view of tongues in, say, Acts 2 and the outpouring of the Spirit is different to the gift of tongues that requires the gift of interpretation when the church gathers (1 Cor 14).

It grieves me to go to some/many Pentecostal-charismatic churches that disobey the 1 Cor 14 teaching and have a confusion of tongues without interpretation. The people may be praising God in tongues but it is foreign to me when there is no interpretation in my presence.

Thank you for a thoughtful post.

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

And I know what it's like to turn around the other way. Speaking in tongues to not. I did not make that change lightly. I sensed something was off about it I suppose mainly from all the things that had nothing to do with the Holy Spirit that I saw that people attached His name to. But I did not want to throw the baby out with the bath water. So I searched to find out why the sign gifts, tongues, miracles signs and wonders, healings are not active in the church today. They all served a purpose before the New Testament was available, to autheniicate the teaching of gospel. To give authority to the foundation being laid by the Apostles. Just as the miracles performed by Jesus autheniicated who He is. We have all this information and th authority attached to it in the New Testament. It needs no more authentication. And I am not saying God doesn't heal anymore but it is something we ask for. And if we get well, through whatever means, it is God healing. If He wants to perform a miracld of course He will. But these things are not meant to be a common part of our church services. Did I receive benefit, or perceived benefit when I spoke in tongues? Sure. Sometimes. But it was EMOTION and FEELINGS.

Reformed05,

Could you please help me to understand how you come to the understanding that the gifts of 1 Cor 12-14 are 'sign gifts'?

Oz

 

[tdidymas]

Reformed05,

Could you please help me to understand how you come to the understanding that the gifts of 1 Cor 12-14 are 'sign gifts'?

Oz

Perhaps I can help, reference Heb. 2:4.
TD

 

[tdidymas]

Diane,

That's an important understanding that I endorse. The view of tongues in, say, Acts 2 and the outpouring of the Spirit is different to the gift of tongues that requires the gift of interpretation when the church gathers (1 Cor 14).

It grieves me to go to some/many Pentecostal-charismatic churches that disobey the 1 Cor 14 teaching and have a confusion of tongues without interpretation. The people may be praising God in tongues but it is foreign to me when there is no interpretation in my presence.

Thank you for a thoughtful post.

Oz

I differ with your idea that the tongues of 1 Cor. 14 is different to that of Acts 2. The reason why it requires interpretation is because the one speaking doesn't know what he is speaking, and the Corinthian congregation was small enough that no one else understood it either. This required a miraculous interpretation, as opposed to the Acts 2 event where someone in that very large crowd naturally understood the language.
TD

 

[Boaz]

Reformed05,

Could you please help me to understand how you come to the understanding that the gifts of 1 Cor 12-14 are 'sign gifts'?

Oz

Fair question. Not all the gifts are sign gifts. Only healing, miracles and tongues. They aren't specifically called sign gifts in the,Bible, other than that they are accompanied with signs and wonders. They are historically referred to as sign gifts because they are accompanied by manifestations. The miracles and healings that Jesus did were to authenticate Jesus as the promised Messiah, and with the apostles to authenticate that they were given their authority to represent Him, by Jesus. Acts 2:22-24. It is no longer needed. The NT is it's own authentication as the Word of God.
With tongues it demonstrates to all the nation's and to the Jews that salvation was for all peoples as opposed to the Jews who felt it was only for Israel. The Gospel was going out to all the world. This was made manifest then, as it needed to be but we no longer need that manifestation, we have the account in the NT which was not available at the time. I concede that some scriptures on tongues on 1 Corinthians are confusing and easily subject to being interpreted as tongues being permanently in place. As they are used today they are too subjective to be valid in the church, too open to misuse and abuse to have any value to a congregation. As far as private use far be it from me to step on anyone's toes or assume I know what is in their mind. My own experience with tongues in private was recognizing my experience as emotion and feeling. And there is nothing wrong with emotion and feeling, they are God given after all. Sometimes and some places however they are used as proof of things that are outside the Bible or entire doctrines that don't exist in Christianity. For myself, I prefer to err on the side of caution. I am not saying that about you.
The other gifts, you will note are all gifts necessary for the church itself (the people) to function, learn from God's Word, and grow, and so are active always.

 

[for_his_glory]

As I see it tongues being a gift from the Holy Spirit are not for signs and wonders, but are for the edification of the Church and also for correcting the Church like that of the seven churches in Asia, Rev 2, 3. The Holy Spirit speaks the Spiritual language of God through one while giving the interpretation to another so that the congregation knows it is God speaking to them. Now we know emotions will cause one to babble and another will give some kind of interpretation as I have seen this many times in church, but when it comes by the Holy Spirit God is exalted.

Hebrews 2:1 Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip. 2 For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompense of reward; 3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him; 4 God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?

Hebrews 2:1-4
Vs. 1 how many times has the church slipped away from sound doctrine to be told to come back to God.
Vs. 2 we have not been steadfast in certain things being disobedient to the doctrines of Christ
Vs. 3 we sometimes neglect our salvation
Vs. 4 signs and wonders, divers miracles and gifts of the Holy Spirit are three different things, but yet all from God as it was in the beginning will always be until the end.

It is God who sets some in the church according to His will.

1 Corinthians 12:27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular. 28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. 29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? 30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret? 31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet show I unto you a more excellent way.

One more thing I would like to add. If you do not speak or pray in tongues it has nothing to do with your salvation.

 

[OzSpen]

Perhaps I can help, reference Heb. 2:4.
TD

TD,

This is the context of Heb 2:4 (NIV):

​

We must pay the most careful attention, therefore, to what we have heard, so that we do not drift away. 2 For since the message spoken through angels was binding, and every violation and disobedience received its just punishment, 3 how shall we escape if we ignore so great a salvation? This salvation, which was first announced by the Lord, was confirmed to us by those who heard him. 4 God also testified to it by signs, wonders and various miracles, and by gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his will.​

That is how the initial offer of salvation was confirmed with signs and wonders.

However, the exegesis and exposition of Heb 2:4 does not deal with the gifts of the Spirit in 1 Cor 12-14 and whether they are sign gifts.

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

I differ with your idea that the tongues of 1 Cor. 14 is different to that of Acts 2. The reason why it requires interpretation is because the one speaking doesn't know what he is speaking, and the Corinthian congregation was small enough that no one else understood it either. This required a miraculous interpretation, as opposed to the Acts 2 event where someone in that very large crowd naturally understood the language.
TD

TD,

That is arguing from silence with regard to the Corinthian congregation. The difference with Acts 2 is that vv 5-13 (NIV) explains the miracle:

5 Now there were staying in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven. 6 When they heard this sound, a crowd came together in bewilderment, because each one heard their own language being spoken. 7 Utterly amazed, they asked: ‘Aren’t all these who are speaking Galileans? 8 Then how is it that each of us hears them in our native language? 9 Parthians, Medes and Elamites; residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, 10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya near Cyrene; visitors from Rome 11 (both Jews and converts to Judaism); Cretans and Arabs – we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!’ 12 Amazed and perplexed, they asked one another, ‘What does this mean?’​

​

13 Some, however, made fun of them and said, ‘They have had too much wine.’​

It had nothing to do with the size of the audience/congregation. At Pentecost, it was a miracle of hearing. With God-fearing Jews, 'each one heard their own language being spoken ... declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues'.

What was the purpose of tongues on the day of Pentecost? 'We hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues' (Ac 2:11).

In 1 Cor 14, the purpose of tongues as a 'prayer language of speaking to God' (v. 2) is for personal edification (requiring no gift of interpretation). When delivered in the church it requires the gift of interpretation for the people to understand and be edified (vv. 26-27).

Oz

 

[tdidymas]

TD,

That is arguing from silence with regard to the Corinthian congregation.

I disagree. Peter said in Acts 10:47 that Cornelius' house received the Spirit as the apostles did, which means they spoke the same nature of miraculous tongues that the apostles spoke in Acts 2. Good hermeneutic is to use the first description of the gift as a precedent on what kind of activity it produces. Acts 2 is the precedent on what kind of gift it is, i.e. miraculous. And the only way to know that it is miraculous is if the language is understood. Otherwise you get a confusion between what is a miraculous gift of the Spirit and what is the natural "automatic speaking" of the kind of glossolalia we hear today among Christians and non-Christians alike.

It had nothing to do with the size of the audience/congregation. At Pentecost, it was a miracle of hearing. With God-fearing Jews, 'each one heard their own language being spoken ... declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues'.

The text says "the apostles spoke" those languages. Therefore, your idea that it was a hearing miracle is simply wrong.

Further, I was not making the point of the size of the audience as if that was the purpose of the tongues. We know that the audience at Jerusalem was thousands, and the congregation at Corinth was less than 200, and most probably 50 or less (since they met in houses), and that there were likely only a few who were abusing the gift. I'm simply making the incidental point that there was a high probability that no one at Corinth knew the language spoken, but if it were spoken in a crowd of thousands, there would have been a high probability that someone understood it. I think this is a reasonable speculation. And I think that speculating that the nature of tongues was different in Corinth is unreasonable.

What was the purpose of tongues on the day of Pentecost? 'We hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues' (Ac 2:11).

In 1 Cor 14, the purpose of tongues as a 'prayer language of speaking to God' (v. 2) is for personal edification (requiring no gift of interpretation). When delivered in the church it requires the gift of interpretation for the people to understand and be edified (vv. 26-27).

Oz

Every gift of God has more than one purpose. Just because one purpose of [Biblical] tongues was prayer does not negate its other purposes. Indeed, there were several purposes: (1) authenticating the gospel message, (2) as a sign for unbelieving Jews, (3) edification of the church (with translation, of course), (4) self-edification by prayer.

So then, it begs the question: can you please explain in detail exactly how you are edified by your glossolalia?
TD

 

[tdidymas]

TD,

This is the context of Heb 2:4 (NIV):

​

We must pay the most careful attention, therefore, to what we have heard, so that we do not drift away. 2 For since the message spoken through angels was binding, and every violation and disobedience received its just punishment, 3 how shall we escape if we ignore so great a salvation? This salvation, which was first announced by the Lord, was confirmed to us by those who heard him. 4 God also testified to it by signs, wonders and various miracles, and by gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his will.​

That is how the initial offer of salvation was confirmed with signs and wonders.

However, the exegesis and exposition of Heb 2:4 does not deal with the gifts of the Spirit in 1 Cor 12-14 and whether they are sign gifts.

Oz

The purpose of a gift of the Spirit being different in another environment (Acts 2 vs. 1 Cor. 14) does not change the nature and activity of the gift. The writer of Hebrews names "gifts of the Holy Spirit" in which I say it is the same "gifts of the Holy Spirit" that Paul mentions in 1 Cor. The writer of Heb. says "God also testified..." and so we have one of the purposes of those gifts, as an authentication of the gospel message. Another purpose, or usage, of those gifts, being to edify the church, does not call for the nature and activity of those gifts to be changed. They are the same gifts, therefore the tongues in 1 Cor. have to be intelligible and meaningful languages like they are in Acts 2.
TD

 

[OzSpen]

I disagree. Peter said in Acts 10:47 that Cornelius' house received the Spirit as the apostles did, which means they spoke the same nature of miraculous tongues that the apostles spoke in Acts 2. Good hermeneutic is to use the first description of the gift as a precedent on what kind of activity it produces. Acts 2 is the precedent on what kind of gift it is, i.e. miraculous. And the only way to know that it is miraculous is if the language is understood. Otherwise you get a confusion between what is a miraculous gift of the Spirit and what is the natural "automatic speaking" of the kind of glossolalia we hear today among Christians and non-Christians alike.

The text says "the apostles spoke" those languages. Therefore, your idea that it was a hearing miracle is simply wrong.

Further, I was not making the point of the size of the audience as if that was the purpose of the tongues. We know that the audience at Jerusalem was thousands, and the congregation at Corinth was less than 200, and most probably 50 or less (since they met in houses), and that there were likely only a few who were abusing the gift. I'm simply making the incidental point that there was a high probability that no one at Corinth knew the language spoken, but if it were spoken in a crowd of thousands, there would have been a high probability that someone understood it. I think this is a reasonable speculation. And I think that speculating that the nature of tongues was different in Corinth is unreasonable.

Every gift of God has more than one purpose. Just because one purpose of [Biblical] tongues was prayer does not negate its other purposes. Indeed, there were several purposes: (1) authenticating the gospel message, (2) as a sign for unbelieving Jews, (3) edification of the church (with translation, of course), (4) self-edification by prayer.

So then, it begs the question: can you please explain in detail exactly how you are edified by your glossolalia?
TD

TD,

7 Utterly amazed, they asked: ‘Aren’t all these who are speaking Galileans? 8 Then how is it that each of us hears them in our native language? 9 Parthians, Medes and Elamites; residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia,[b] 10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya near Cyrene; visitors from Rome 11 (both Jews and converts to Judaism); Cretans and Arabs – we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!’ (Acts 2:7-11 NIV).​

You already are ridiculing me regarding tongues to speak to God. I would not provide you with further evidence for you to be sarcastic towards me.

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

The purpose of a gift of the Spirit being different in another environment (Acts 2 vs. 1 Cor. 14) does not change the nature and activity of the gift. The writer of Hebrews names "gifts of the Holy Spirit" in which I say it is the same "gifts of the Holy Spirit" that Paul mentions in 1 Cor. The writer of Heb. says "God also testified..." and so we have one of the purposes of those gifts, as an authentication of the gospel message. Another purpose, or usage, of those gifts, being to edify the church, does not call for the nature and activity of those gifts to be changed. They are the same gifts, therefore the tongues in 1 Cor. have to be intelligible and meaningful languages like they are in Acts 2.
TD

That's your opinion. It's not mine.

 

[Boaz]

As I see it tongues being a gift from the Holy Spirit are not for signs and wonders, but are for the edification of the Church and also for correcting the Church like that of the seven churches in Asia, Rev 2, 3. The Holy Spirit speaks the Spiritual language of God through one while giving the interpretation to another so that the congregation knows it is God speaking to them. Now we know emotions will cause one to babble and another will give some kind of interpretation as I have seen this many times in church, but when it comes by the Holy Spirit God is exalted.

Hebrews 2:1 Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip. 2 For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompense of reward; 3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him; 4 God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?

Hebrews 2:1-4
Vs. 1 how many times has the church slipped away from sound doctrine to be told to come back to God.
Vs. 2 we have not been steadfast in certain things being disobedient to the doctrines of Christ
Vs. 3 we sometimes neglect our salvation
Vs. 4 signs and wonders, divers miracles and gifts of the Holy Spirit are three different things, but yet all from God as it was in the beginning will always be until the end.

It is God who sets some in the church according to His will.

1 Corinthians 12:27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular. 28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. 29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? 30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret? 31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet show I unto you a more excellent way.

One more thing I would like to add. If you do not speak or pray in tongues it has nothing to do with your salvation.

As to the first part of this comment that false tongues and interpretations exist in the church but if it is of the Holy Spirit He will be exalted, again, it is too subjective. Who decides if it is from the Holy Spirit? Is it a feeling within us? Does the pastor decide? Someone in the congregation. My opinion is that God would not introduce a necessary thing into our gatherings that would cause confusion by its very nature, as He is not the author of confusion. All the gifts except the sign gifts are absolutely necessary for the church to function in an orderly way for the teaching, and helps, and government of our assemblies.

Also tongues though it is a sign gift is not FOR signs and wonders. Those are an entirely different thing. I ave already explained what tongues were FOR and will leave it at that.

 

[OzSpen]

As to the first part of this comment that false tongues and interpretations exist in the church but if it is of the Holy Spirit He will be exalted, again, it is too subjective. Who decides if it is from the Holy Spirit? Is it a feeling within us? Does the pastor decide? Someone in the congregation. My opinion is that God would not introduce a necessary thing into our gatherings that would cause confusion by its very nature, as He is not the author of confusion. All the gifts except the sign gifts are absolutely necessary for the church to function in an orderly way for the teaching, and helps, and government of our assemblies.

Also tongues though it is a sign gift is not FOR signs and wonders. Those are an entirely different thing. I ave already explained what tongues were FOR and will leave it at that.

Reformed05,

Tongues and interpretation were gifts in the first century church at Corinth. Do you think God was introducing into that congregation 'confusion'? According to 1 Cor 14:26-29 (NLT):

26 Well, my brothers and sisters, let’s summarize. When you meet together, one will sing, another will teach, another will tell some special revelation God has given, one will speak in tongues, and another will interpret what is said. But everything that is done must strengthen all of you.​

​

27 No more than two or three should speak in tongues. They must speak one at a time, and someone must interpret what they say. 28 But if no one is present who can interpret, they must be silent in your church meeting and speak in tongues to God privately.​

​

29 Let two or three people prophesy, and let the others evaluate what is said.​

When the Corinthian church gathered, individual people exercised their gifts for the edification of the group. That's what I see missing in the churches today, where churches gather with lots of pew warmers and few who actively demonstrate their ministry.

According to v. 29, all prophecy must be evaluated (presumably in the congregation). Could the inference be that the same process is needed with tongues and interpretation.

Remember Paul's instructions to the Corinthians:

39 So, my dear brothers and sisters, be eager to prophesy, and don’t forbid speaking in tongues. 40 But be sure that everything is done properly and in order.​

Even with the original teaching on the gifts of the Spirit, Paul knew that there could be a circumstance of confusion, so he taught:

• Do not forbid speaking in tongues.
• With the demonstration of any of the gifts of the Spirit, there could be a possibility of disorder - like we see in some contemporary churches. So, what did Paul teach?
• He did not say: Quit speaking in tongues when the canon of Scripture is finalised.
• He did say: 'Everything is done properly and in order,' thus warning against the possibility of commotion.

Oz

 

[Boaz]

Reformed05,

Tongues and interpretation were gifts in the first century church at Corinth. Do you think God was introducing into that congregation 'confusion'? According to 1 Cor 14:26-29 (NLT):

26 Well, my brothers and sisters, let’s summarize. When you meet together, one will sing, another will teach, another will tell some special revelation God has given, one will speak in tongues, and another will interpret what is said. But everything that is done must strengthen all of you.​

​

27 No more than two or three should speak in tongues. They must speak one at a time, and someone must interpret what they say. 28 But if no one is present who can interpret, they must be silent in your church meeting and speak in tongues to God privately.​

​

29 Let two or three people prophesy, and let the others evaluate what is said.​

When the Corinthian church gathered, individual people exercised their gifts for the edification of the group. That's what I see missing in the churches today, where churches gather with lots of pew warmers and few who actively demonstrate their ministry.

According to v. 29, all prophecy must be evaluated (presumably in the congregation). Could the inference be that the same process is needed with tongues and interpretation.

Remember Paul's instructions to the Corinthians:

39 So, my dear brothers and sisters, be eager to prophesy, and don’t forbid speaking in tongues. 40 But be sure that everything is done properly and in order.​

Even with the original teaching on the gifts of the Spirit, Paul knew that there could be a circumstance of confusion, so he taught:

• Do not forbid speaking in tongues.
• With the demonstration of any of the gifts of the Spirit, there could be a possibility of disorder - like we see in some contemporary churches. So, what did Paul teach?
• He did not say: Quit speaking in tongues when the canon of Scripture is finalised.
• He did say: 'Everything is done properly and in order,' thus warning against the possibility of commotion.

Oz

Whatever

 

[Boaz]

Reformed05,

Tongues and interpretation were gifts in the first century church at Corinth. Do you think God was introducing into that congregation 'confusion'? According to 1 Cor 14:26-29 (NLT):

26 Well, my brothers and sisters, let’s summarize. When you meet together, one will sing, another will teach, another will tell some special revelation God has given, one will speak in tongues, and another will interpret what is said. But everything that is done must strengthen all of you.​

​

27 No more than two or three should speak in tongues. They must speak one at a time, and someone must interpret what they say. 28 But if no one is present who can interpret, they must be silent in your church meeting and speak in tongues to God privately.​

​

29 Let two or three people prophesy, and let the others evaluate what is said.​

When the Corinthian church gathered, individual people exercised their gifts for the edification of the group. That's what I see missing in the churches today, where churches gather with lots of pew warmers and few who actively demonstrate their ministry.

According to v. 29, all prophecy must be evaluated (presumably in the congregation). Could the inference be that the same process is needed with tongues and interpretation.

Remember Paul's instructions to the Corinthians:

39 So, my dear brothers and sisters, be eager to prophesy, and don’t forbid speaking in tongues. 40 But be sure that everything is done properly and in order.​

Even with the original teaching on the gifts of the Spirit, Paul knew that there could be a circumstance of confusion, so he taught:

• Do not forbid speaking in tongues.
• With the demonstration of any of the gifts of the Spirit, there could be a possibility of disorder - like we see in some contemporary churches. So, what did Paul teach?
• He did not say: Quit speaking in tongues when the canon of Scripture is finalised.
• He did say: 'Everything is done properly and in order,' thus warning against the possibility of commotion.

Oz

We disagree. Can't you just leave it at that?

 

[OzSpen]

Whatever

You are not listening, huh?

 

[OzSpen]

One of the things regarding tongues that Paul was correcting the Corinthians on was the way in which they borrowed from the pagan practices surrounding them. These pagans would get together and speak in unintelligible speech, working themselves into a state of ecstasy.

Reformed05,

Where in 1 Corinthians does it state that?

Oz

 

[for_his_glory]

As to the first part of this comment that false tongues and interpretations exist in the church but if it is of the Holy Spirit He will be exalted, again, it is too subjective. Who decides if it is from the Holy Spirit? Is it a feeling within us? Does the pastor decide? Someone in the congregation. My opinion is that God would not introduce a necessary thing into our gatherings that would cause confusion by its very nature, as He is not the author of confusion. All the gifts except the sign gifts are absolutely necessary for the church to function in an orderly way for the teaching, and helps, and government of our assemblies.

Also tongues though it is a sign gift is not FOR signs and wonders. Those are an entirely different thing. I ave already explained what tongues were FOR and will leave it at that.

1 Corinthians 14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

I have to correct myself as I now see by this verse that tongues are for a sign and possibly wonders, but only to those who do not believe if you read the full of 1 Corinthians 14:21-33.

Is it God or man that is exalted when the Holy Spirit speaks prophecy through another in an unknown tongue and gives another the interpretation.

You are right as God would not introduce a a necessary thing into our gatherings that would cause confusion, but the self righteous do. If there is no prophecy of edification, instruction or correction that speaks to us through the Holy Spirit then it is only man putting on a show as I have seen many times in a church I use to attend.

Yes, I agree all the gifts of the Holy Spirit are absolutely necessary within the workings of the church as they were when the church was established by the Apostles, even to day and everyday till Christ returns. What we disagree on is whether or not tongues are both for signs and wonders.

 

[OzSpen]

1 Corinthians 14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

I have to correct myself as I now see by this verse that tongues are for a sign and possibly wonders, but only to those who do not believe if you read the full of 1 Corinthians 14:21-33.

Is it God or man that is exalted when the Holy Spirit speaks prophecy through another in an unknown tongue and gives another the interpretation.

You are right as God would not introduce a a necessary thing into our gatherings that would cause confusion, but the self righteous do. If there is no prophecy of edification, instruction or correction that speaks to us through the Holy Spirit then it is only man putting on a show as I have seen many times in a church I use to attend.

Yes, I agree all the gifts of the Holy Spirit are absolutely necessary within the workings of the church as they were when the church was established by the Apostles, even to day and everyday till Christ returns. What we disagree on is whether or not tongues are both for signs and wonders.

FHG,

I have found many things discussed in this thread raise issues that have not been taught at any depth at Pentecostal-Charismatic churches I've attended or visited. There is so much experiential fervour instead of sound teaching that leads to openness to the gifts of the Spirit.

I'd recommend this book, written by the late Aeron Morgan, AoG minister and former Bible College principal:

A Morgan 2005. The biblical testing of teachings and manifestations. Spring Lake, MI: Dust & Ashes Publications.

This is one of the soundest books I've read on the need for and how to test tongues and other manifestations.

Oz