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[_ Old Earth _] summary of the creation theory

Barbarian

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Speaking as a Christian, I have no need to prove God, or even to scientifically gather evidence for Him.

If He exists, He obviously could do a better job of convincing us of that fact, if He chose to do so.

On the other hand, if the clouds parted and a huge humanoid figure bent down and said "I'm your creator and Lord, and I expect you to straighten up and do right!", what would happen to free will?

On the other hand, the place to which you need to go is that small, still place within you.

Sit quietly in a comfortable place, and ask Him to come in. Maybe He will.

He did for me.
 
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Blue-Lightning

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And I agree with you, Barbarian. We can never prove through science that God exists - that would be haughty of us to think that way. But what I'm trying to tell you, Realist, is that the fingerprints are out there, it's not as if you have to believe in a ridiculous concept.

BL
 
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jgarden

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CONCERNING EVOLUTION
Whether the earth was created in 6 days or billions of years is largely academic. What is important is the belief in a God inspired creation. Arguments concerning God's timelines and the "mechanics" are largely irrelevant, and have nothing to do with His existance.

What's important is that we're here and how we serve Him in the limited time that we're given. Unfortunately, most of us do Him a disservise because we don't show that Christian faith makes a noticable difference in our lives, at least not enough to convince non believers.

And there lies the problem, we try to convince the world through our words. If we merely led by example, there would be no reason for words


CONCERNING the EXISTANCE of GOD
The existance of God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit cannot be proved to a non believer. Its something that is predicated on "faith," and one can either accept or reject the "invitation," and live with the consequences.

Only faith can explain God’s interventions in the world to a Christian. Miracles, the Transfiguration and the Resurrection are all examples of events that transcend natural laws, including science and history.

Christianity without the need for faith would become a meaningless exercise. It requires a commitment to something that often defies logic and understanding, but is at the very core of our "being."
 
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SyntaxVorlon

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Blue-Lightning said:
And I agree with you, Barbarian. We can never prove through science that God exists - that would be haughty of us to think that way. But what I'm trying to tell you, Realist, is that the fingerprints are out there, it's not as if you have to believe in a ridiculous concept.
I'm afraid that's circular reasoning, you have to believe in god to see the 'fingerprints.'
 
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Guest

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Blue-Lightning said:
Hey Realist, glad to have you. Let's set one thing straight for a moment though... you are not among dummies. Maybe you live among dummies, maybe you don't, I don't know, but a word to the wise: sit back, listen a little and get a feel for the board before you assume greater knowledge. You've got some pretty smart people here, some smarter than others, but there are quite a few really intelligent people - and it's not fun to have them dissect what you say into oblivion. So make sure you really, really think before you speak... err... type.

"God is provable, if you look in
the right places" then conveniently forget to mention where these fabled places are.(and please don't offer the Bible as a place to look, that's like saying Allah is provable if you read the Koran)
Oookay... let's knock out the arguments here and then we'll move on. Firstly, you have to look in the right places in order to determine if they truly exist. For example, I would not look for a barracuda in the Mississippii. So if you are interested in seeking the truth about the Deity (which I assume your not, but maybe you can surprise me), you should take a look into prayer research, historical accuracies of the bible, second law of thermodynamics and subsequant need for a creator outside the universe (an eternal universe contradicts its own laws), etc.

The reason that I accept the Bible as an accurate source are 1) its historical accuracy, 2) its unique genealogy system, 3) its unique monotheistic belief system within its context, 4) its strenuous criteria for text entry, and 5) validation of its truth within my life through miracles.

I do not accept the Koran because 1) its lack of respect towards all of humanity, 2) its historical inaccuracy, 3) its borrowed accounts, 4) its contradictions, and 5) its singular authorship, context, and historical creation.


[quote:0e408]Refuse to be open minded? Hey show me some "EVIDENCE" and I'll walk the Earth handing out the Good Book and spreading the Gospel...
Look into prayer research for starters.

Whereas your "proof" as you like to call it, was written by people who knew absolutely nothing about the Earth and its goings on, after all
it was less than 1000 years ago they thought they would was flat.
Who is "they?" Did you know that North American indians knew for quite some time that the earth was round? So who is "they?" If you're referring (ethnocentrically) to Europeans as "they," then please specify in the future... not everyone believed the world was flat in the world.

As for illogical reason for God, how can there be one true God when
you've got Jesus, Allah, Buddha (and not just one) and of course
Lord Ganesha just to mention one Hindu God.
Can't all be right.
That's like me asking what is the one star in our solar system and you answering, "Well, how can there be one star when we have all these solar bodies in the solar system? Can't all be stars?" It's an illogical argument.

Oh, and this little debate doesn't belong here in the evolution forum. It belongs in Christianity and Religions. You can discuss why belief in God is logically necessary there, but as for here, please stay on topic.

BL
[/quote:0e408]
I just the the statement, "I am a christian, I don't need proof"
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
As for christians having free will, please, that's exactly what they take from you.

""Sit quietly in a comfortable place, and ask Him to come in. Maybe He will. ""

This is the exact rubbish to which i refer. What a load of garbage.
Prayer research and the Bible, that's like asking an alcohloic if booze is good. The right places, where such as church or one of your other brainwashing centres. The analogy of "I don't look for ice in the desert"
is ridiculous. So you're saying that if I want o find God, I just have to read the brainwashing doctrine and believe without question.
Do you see the problem?

""The reason that I accept the Bible as an accurate source are 1) its historical accuracy, 2) its unique genealogy system, 3) its unique monotheistic belief system within its context, 4) its strenuous criteria for text entry, and 5) validation of its truth within my life through miracles. ""

Historical accuracy? If it's so accurate, how come it's not accepted worldwide as total fact? Where are the dinosaurs?
Asians, South Americans etc. Why don't they agree on the age of the Earth?
Tell me of these "miracles" I'm dying to be amazed.
What like the one where some christians took shelter from a tornado
and were killed when their church got flattened?

"They" being our ancestors, and you admit that other races knew more yet claim the bible to be accurate.

That's like me asking what is the one star in our solar system and you answering, "Well, how can there be one star when we have all these solar bodies in the solar system? Can't all be stars?" It's an illogical argument.

No, that's an illogical statement, because we know there is way more than one star. We have seen them, they're real unlike anything in the bible.

As for your reasons against the Koran, they are my exact reasons against christianity. (like turning up to a gay guy's funeral and cheering)
 

Featherbop

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Jun 10, 2003
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SyntaxVorlon said:
Blue-Lightning said:
And I agree with you, Barbarian. We can never prove through science that God exists - that would be haughty of us to think that way. But what I'm trying to tell you, Realist, is that the fingerprints are out there, it's not as if you have to believe in a ridiculous concept.
I'm afraid that's circular reasoning, you have to believe in god to see the 'fingerprints.'
No, you don't. You can see the the "fingerprints" and come to the conclusion that God created.

Or I could simply say that you must first be an atheist to believe that there are no "fingerprints". Your "arguement" works against you.
 
B

Blue-Lightning

Guest
Ugh. What phlegm...

I just the the statement, "I am a christian, I don't need proof"
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
As for christians having free will, please, that's exactly what they take from you.
I love it when arrogants can't even put together grammatically correct sentences... :roll:

Prayer research and the Bible, that's like asking an alcohloic if booze is good.
First, I don't know what an "alcohloic" is, second the prayer research I'm referring to has been conducted by such universities as Harvard, North Carolina, and is currently being studied by the United States government.

Historical accuracy? If it's so accurate, how come it's not accepted worldwide as total fact? Where are the dinosaurs?
Not everyone believes Neil Armstrong stood on the moon - doesn't mean that it didn't happen. You'll get two different answers on the dinosarus - I say they are in the book of Job and Barbarian would probably disagree with that.

Tell me of these "miracles" I'm dying to be amazed.
Since your "dying," I'm assuming that you care enough to look in the forums for people talking about miracles in their lives. You can find plenty if you want to.

"They" being our ancestors, and you admit that other races knew more yet claim the bible to be accurate.
Who knew more than who? I said the North American indians knew the world was round before the majority of Europeans realized it. Are you confusing the Europeans with Isrealites or something?...

That's like me asking what is the one star in our solar system and you answering, "Well, how can there be one star when we have all these solar bodies in the solar system? Can't all be stars?" It's an illogical argument.

No, that's an illogical statement, because we know there is way more than one star. We have seen them, they're real unlike anything in the bible.
:biggrin Okay, listen: there is one star in our solar system, like I said. There are many stars in our galaxy (which is made of many solar systems) and then there are many galaxies in our universe. But just one star in our solar system.

As for your reasons against the Koran, they are my exact reasons against christianity. (like turning up to a gay guy's funeral and cheering)
Turning up to a gay person's funeral and cheering? That doesn't sound very Christ-like. And Christian meaning a follower of Christ, I would have to be skeptical that a person who was truly a follower of Christ would cheer for the demise of gay person.

I get the impression that you're pretty young (maybe 13?), so I'll let some of this slide. :)

Later,

BL
 

Barbarian

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It's hard to say which people actually figured out that the world was a sphere, but the ancient Greeks knew it, and knew it was 25,000 miles around about 300 years before Christ was born.

I don't know if any native Americans got that, but it appears that they were first with the concept of 0 and place values in numbers, as well as having the most accurate known calendar to be actually used.
 
S

smallfry

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sorry to bump this thread, but Im only new to the site and I'm still wading my way through the threads. I"m also have a terribly bad habit of not being able to keep my stupid, unfounded opinions to myself, so for better or worse, here goes.

I'm a Christian in that I believe in John 3:16. As for believeing the first books of the old testament as historically accurate???? meh.

I also went to school and learnt about science and history. So in an unacademic way I have come to reconsile my beleif about evolution and creation in this way

I believe that the First few books of the OT are representations of an ancient civilizations view on creation. Stories written along time after the event, from stories that were passed down from generation to generation around the camp fire.

I think that the creation stories in the bible are a myth inspired by my God as a prequal to the stories that came later which are proven to be historically correct by Historians around the worldmany many times. So much so that the Bible is actually considered to be one of the most accurate historical references available to the human race today.

I dont think that belief in either the evolutionist theory or the creationist theory proves or disproves the existance of the God or a god. I dont think God wants us to be that worried about it. I have certainly not done much study into other civilizations creation stories, but from what I have heard, many have simmilar stories cosmic beginings and of great floods.

I think I have even heard that the scientific world acknowledges the fact that there was a large flood(maybe not a world one).

Take a look at your science book. Turn to the chapter that tells us how we came to existence. Not the human race, but the earth, solar system, universe. Your belief in the BBT has no more substance than the CT of the bible. It is still to this day based on supossition with a few big words thrown in for good measure. What is before the Big Bang?

I'm a romantic I know, but I see proof of God in the very existence of the earth. I believe that science is only proving the fact that God exists by proving constantly how unbelievable it is that we are here at all!
 

Barbarian

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Take a look at your science book. Turn to the chapter that tells us how we came to existence. Not the human race, but the earth, solar system, universe. Your belief in the BBT has no more substance than the CT of the bible.
Actually, they are the same thing. And yes, we have considerable evidence from the Big Bang. The "echo" of that expansion is still detectable today, and was predicted before it was accidentally found.
 
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