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The Amazing Westcott And Hort Magic Marker Binge!

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turnorburn

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Would you take a magic marker to your Bible and cross out words from passages?

Welcome to the Amazing Westcott and Hort Magic Marker Binge!

The chart below illustrates what was done when the text used by Christianity for 1800 years was replaced with a text assembled by Brook Foss Westcott and Fenton John Anthony Hort in the nineteenth century and used as the basis for the English Revised Version, which nearly all modern translations closely follow.

The text shown here is the King James Version. Words, sentences, or entire verses in strikethrough illustrate portions that have been removed from the text underlying the KJV New Testament. Not all modern versions are the same. Sometimes the ESV will include a word the NIV doesn't, or the NASB might omit a phrase the NIV and NRSV both retain, etc... but for the most part, the examples below represent nearly all of the popular modern versions. (Psudeo-KJV versions such as the NKJV are far more subtle and are a different case. See the articles section for NKJV examinations.)

Compare your modern version and see what the KJV has that yours doesn't. This list is not comprehensive, it is just a sample! The modern critical text that forms the basis for nearly all modern versions omits the equivalent of the entire books of 1st and 2nd Peter.

Critics commonly charge that the traditional Bible text used by believers for 1800 years adds material, and that we should be thankful for Westcott and Hort who came along in the 19th century to restore the text of the New Testament that had been corrupt for 1800 years and during the entire reformation. This charge is of course made against evidence to the contrary, as you will find if you research the text lines (read other articles on this website). Further, it is interesting to note that one of these verses is this:

Romans 13:9: For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

The phrase "thou shalt not bear false witness" is missing from the modern critical text (and therefor most modern versions). Now I ask you: is it reasonable to assume that a scribe added a self-incriminating phrase to the passage? Isn't it more likely that "those who corrupt the word of God" (2 Cor. 2:17, KJV) removed the phrase which indicted them?

http://av1611.com/kjbp/charts/themagicmarker.html

tob
 
ok, I could slam the kjv, it is the language of God. greek and Hebrew are hard to translate.oh and the word baptism wasn't in the English bible until the kjv was written.why? because the man king james didn't believe in immersion by water so the writers transliterated that word from koine greek. and lets forget the johan comma. which is found in all translations.
 

Now on to Westcott and Hort's Magic Marker Binge!
(Part 1: Matthew - John)


Matthew

1:25 And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.
5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
6:13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
8:29 And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?
9:13 But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
12:35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.
13:51 Jesus saith unto them, Have ye understood all these things? They say unto him, Yea, Lord.
15:8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
16:3 And in the morning, It will be foul weather to day: for the sky is red and lowring. O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not discern the signs of the times?
16:20 Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.
17:21 Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting.
18:11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.
19:9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.
19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
20:7 They say unto him, Because no man hath hired us. He saith unto them, Go ye also into the vineyard; and whatsoever is right, that shall ye receive.
20:16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.
20:22 But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able.
23:14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.
25:13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.
27:35 And they crucified him, and parted his garments, casting lots: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, They parted my garments among them, and upon my vesture did they cast lots.
28:9 And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him.
 
Mark

1:14
Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,
1:31 And he came and took her by the hand, and lifted her up; and immediately the fever left her, and she ministered unto them.
2:17 When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
6:11 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.
6:16 But when Herod heard thereof, he said, It is John, whom I beheaded: he is risen from the dead.
7:8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
7:16 If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.
9:24 And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.
9:42 And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.
9:44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
9:46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
9:49 For every one shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt.
10:21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.
11:10 Blessed be the kingdom of our father David, that cometh in the name of the Lord: Hosanna in the highest.
13:14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:
13:33 Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.
14:68 But he denied, saying, I know not, neither understand I what thou sayest. And he went out into the porch; and the cock crew.
15:28 And the scripture was fulfilled, which saith, And he was numbered with the transgressors.
16:9-20 Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils. And she went and told them that had been with him, as they mourned and wept. And they, when they had heard that he was alive, and had been seen of her, believed not. After that he appeared in another form unto two of them, as they walked, and went into the country. And they went and told it unto the residue: neither believed they them. Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen. And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God. And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.(typically marginalized or set in brackets. Footnotes in NIV are patently false.)

tob
 
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Luke
1:28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
4:4 And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.
4:8 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
4:41 And devils also came out of many, crying out, and saying, Thou art Christ the Son of God. And he rebuking them suffered them not to speak: for they knew that he was Christ.
7:31 And the Lord said, Whereunto then shall I liken the men of this generation? and to what are they like?
9:54-56 And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did? But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of. For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. And they went to another village.
11:2-4 And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth. Give us day by day our daily bread. And forgive us our sins; for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil.
11:29 And when the people were gathered thick together, he began to say, This is an evil generation: they seek a sign; and there shall no sign be given it, but the sign of Jonas the prophet.
17:36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
21:4 For all these have of their abundance cast in unto the offerings of God: but she of her penury hath cast in all the living that she had.
22:31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:
22:64 And when they had blindfolded him, they struck him on the face, and asked him, saying, Prophesy, who is it that smote thee?
23:17 (For of necessity he must release one unto them at the feast.)
23:38 And a superscription also was written over him in letters of Greek, and Latin, and Hebrew, THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS.
23:42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
24:6 He is not here, but is risen: remember how he spake unto you when he was yet in Galilee,
24:40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.
24:49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.
24:51 And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven.
 
John
1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
1:27 He it is, who coming after me is preferred before me, whose shoe's latchet I am not worthy to unloose.
3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
4:42 And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world.
5:3-4 In these lay a great multitude of impotent folk, of blind, halt, withered, waiting for the moving of the water. For an angel went down at a certain season into the pool, and troubled the water: whosoever then first after the troubling of the water stepped in was made whole of whatsoever disease he had.
6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
6:69 And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.
11:41 Then they took away the stone from the place where the dead was laid. And Jesus lifted up his eyes, and said, Father, I thank thee that thou hast heard me.
16:16 A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me, because I go to the Father.
17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
 
Ro. 13:9 - why is “false witnesses” left out of modern translations?

Because it is not found in 4 of the 5 earliest NT manuscripts (including the very earliest: p46 from the second century A.D.).

It’s not just the Westcott and Hort text which restores the probable original without “false witnesses” at 13:9.

These scholarly NT Greek texts, among others, do the same:

Byzantine text - http://www.scribd.com/doc/36925586/BIBLE-Greek-Byzantine-Text-the-NT-in-the-Original-Greek

NA28 (Nestle-Aland) - http://www.academic-bible.com/en/online-bibles/novum-testamentum-graece-na-28/read-the-bible-text/bibel/text/lesen/stelle/55/130001/139999/ch/6fc7149c7508c01cdaedac8311c1f273/

UBS (United Bible Societies) - https://www.academic-bible.com/en/online-bibles/greek-new-testament-ubs-gnt/read-the-bible-text/bibel/text/lesen/stelle/55/130001/139999/ch/6fc7149c7508c01cdaedac8311c1f273/

I'll refrain from responding to all the many errors of the KJV you are listing until you finish up. Then I'll pick one of the last ones you list and examine the manuscript evidence as in this post.
 
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Have you read the ERV to check out how "honest" that site is? Here's one example:

Matthew 6:33
KJV

But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
(Kingdom said to be God's)

ERV (According to the chart)
But seek ye first the kingdom, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
(No mention of who's kingdom it is)

Actual ERV
But seek ye first his kingdom, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
(Kingdom said to be "his", referring back to "your heavenly Father" in the previous verse)

When I see this kind of dishonesty, I usually don't waste my time looking any closer, but I was curious so I picked another verse at random.

Matthew 19:9
KJV
And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.
(States that a man who marries a divorced woman commits adultery)

ERV (According to the chart)
And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery
(Doesn't mention marrying a divorced woman)

Actual ERV
And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and he that marrieth her when she is put away committeth adultery.
(States that a man who marries a divorced woman commits adultery)

I didn't search for these until I found something that suited me. Those are the first two verses I picked at random, and that's what I found. I'm not going to waste any time looking at the rest. You can find the English Revised Version on biblehub.com if yo want to check for yourself.

The TOG​
 
In order to give you an idea of what they REALLY believed and what their REAL intentions were when creating their Greek New Testament, I will let the men speak for themselves. I will tell you nothing. I will merely let these two men speak for themselves. The rest of this page will be only quotations. If this makes you angry, don't be angry with me...I'm just giving you the words of Westcott and Hort...

TELLING QUOTATIONS FROM WESTCOTT AND HORT

Concerning the Deity of Christ:

"He never speaks of Himself directly as God, but the aim of His revelation was to lead men to see God in Him." (Westcott, The Gospel According to St. John, p. 297).

"(John) does not expressly affirm the identification of the Word with Jesus Christ." (Westcott, Ibid., p. 16).

Concerning the Scriptures:

"I reject the infallibility of Holy Scriptures overwhelmingly." (Westcott, The Life and Letters of Brook Foss Westcott, Vol. I, p.207).

"Our Bible as well as our Faith is a mere compromise." (Westcott, On the Canon of the New Testament, p. vii).

"Evangelicals seem to me perverted. . .There are, I fear, still more serious differences between us on the subject of authority, especially the authority of the Bible." (Hort, The Life and Letters of Fenton John Anthony Hort, Vol. I, p.400)

Concerning Hell:

"(Hell is) not the place of punishment of the guilty, (it is) the common abode of departed spirits. (Westcott, Historic Faith, pp.77-78).

"We have no sure knowledge of future punishment, and the word eternal has a far higher meaning." (Hort, Life and Letters, Vol. I, p.149).

Concerning Creation:

"No one now, I suppose, holds that the first three chapters of Genesis, for example, give a literal history. I could never understand how anyone reading them with open eyes could think they did." (Westcott, cited from Which Bible?, p. 191).

"But the book which has most engaged me is Darwin. Whatever may be thought of it, it is a book that one is proud to be contemporary with..... My feeling is strong that the theory is unanswerable." (Hort, cited from Which Bible?, p. 189)

Concerning the Atonement:

"I think I mentioned to you before Campbell's book on the Atonement, which is invaluable as far as it goes; but unluckily he knows nothing except Protestant theology." (Hort, Life and Letters, Vol. I, p. 322)

"The popular doctrine of substitution is an immoral and material counterfeit...nothing can be more unscriptural than the the limiting of Christ's bearing our sins and sufferings to His death; but indeed that is only one aspect of an almost universal heresy." (Hort to Westcott, Life and Letters, Vol. I, p. 430)

"I confess I have no repugnance to the primitive doctrine of a ransom paid to Satan. I can see no other possible form in which the doctrine of a ransom is at all tenable; anything is better than the doctrine of a ransom to the father." (Hort, The First Epistle of St. Peter 1:1-2:17, p. 77).

Concerning Man:

"It is of course true that we can only know God through human forms, but then I think the whole Bible echoes the language of Genesis 1:27 and so assures us that human forms are divine forms." (Hort to Westcott, August 14, 1860)

"Protestants (must) unlearn the crazy horror of the idea of Priesthood." (Hort, Life and Letters, Volume II, pp. 49-51)

Concerning Roman Catholicism:

"I wish I could see to what forgotten truth Mariolatry (the worship of the Virgin Mary) bears witness." (Westcott, Ibid. )

"I have been persuaded for many years that Mary-Worship and Jesus-Worship have very much in common." (Hort, Life and Letters, Volume II, pp. 49-51)

"The pure Romanish view seems to be nearer, and more likely to lead to the truth than the Evangelical." (Hort, Life and Letters, Vol. I, p. 77)

"I agree with you in thinking it a pity that Maurice verbally repudiates purgatory . . . the idea of purgation, cleansing by fire, seems to me inseparable from what the Bible teaches us of the Divine chastisements." (Hort, Life and Letters, Vol. II, pp. 336,337)

http://www.1611kingjamesbible.com/westcott_hort.html/

tob
 
Concerning the Cumulative Effect of Multiple Changes to the Manuscripts:

"It is quite impossible to judge the value of what appear to be trifling alterations merely by reading them one after another. Taken together, they have often important bearings which few would think of at first. . . The difference between a picture, say of Raffaelle, and a feeble copy of it is made up of a number of trivial differences. . . We have successfully resisted being warned off dangerous ground, where the needs of revision required that it should not be shirked. . . It is, one can hardly doubt, the beginning of a new period in Church history. So far the angry objectors have reason for their astonishment." (Hort, Life and Letters, Vol.I, pp. 138,139)

-------------------------------------------------------------

It is one thing to have doctrinal differences on baby-sprinkling and perhaps a few other interpretations. It is quite another to be a Darwinian theologian who rejects the authority of scriptures, Biblical salvation, the reality of hell, substitutionary atonement, makes Christ a created being to be worshipped with Mary his mother, and to openly admit that your "trifling alterations" with the Greek Text have begun a "new period in Church history"!! Yet, these were the views of both Westcott and Hort!! This is UNBELIEVABLE!! No less significant is the fact that both men were involved with the occult and were members of spiritist societies (the Hermes Club and the Ghostly Guild), and both men supposedly "talked" to Spirits of the dead.

tob
 
is the problem with the westcort greek and the other text for the Hebrew bible?

I know that other fe used the recipticus and the Masoretic text.
 
Have you read the ERV to check out how "honest" that site is? Here's one example:

Matthew 6:33
KJV

But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
(Kingdom said to be God's)

ERV (According to the chart)
But seek ye first the kingdom, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
(No mention of who's kingdom it is)

Actual ERV
But seek ye first his kingdom, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
(Kingdom said to be "his", referring back to "your heavenly Father" in the previous verse)

When I see this kind of dishonesty, I usually don't waste my time looking any closer, but I was curious so I picked another verse at random.

Matthew 19:9
KJV

And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.
(States that a man who marries a divorced woman commits adultery)

ERV (According to the chart)
And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery
(Doesn't mention marrying a divorced woman)

Actual ERV
And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and he that marrieth her when she is put away committeth adultery.
(States that a man who marries a divorced woman commits adultery)

I didn't search for these until I found something that suited me. Those are the first two verses I picked at random, and that's what I found. I'm not going to waste any time looking at the rest. You can find the English Revised Version on biblehub.com if yo want to check for yourself.

The TOG​
I've noticed that too so many times when I try to carry on a conversation with a KJVOnlyist. Many times I find the evidence they produce to be faulty and that casts doubt on all other evidence from that source. Some of the falsifications, such as you pointed out above, are just to obvious to be honest mistakes. But I've found when I point these things out to KJVOnlyists many times they simply scream, yell, demonize, and throw up great big smoke screens to cover up the problem rather than face it for what it is. (Not necessarily referring to TOB here, just to many I've spoken to.)
 
ok, after rereading Tog post, sheesh. I don't like the niv, but man im not into dishonest tactics.
 
Okay...I think we agree no text is perfect...but I believe there were sound Christian as well as scholarly reasons for the Majority Text having become the accepted text. The Textus Receptus was formed on a limited amount of texts (now we have over 5,000) and as it was given meaning through the Latin. So this is not a defence in favor of it.

The problem with the Westcott/Hort translation is that relying mostly only on two of the Alexandrian texts (Sin and Vat) they mixed and matched to create and eclectic that was highly influenced by there own theology (or lack thereof)...the two texts chosen are not "the best" texts but the most complete 4th century versions we possess. To me that does not say much.

I spent a coupe of years collecting the textual quotes and paraphrasing from the Ante-Nicene fathers. Irenaeus (the student of Polycarp, the student of the Apostle John) for example, just in Against Heresies yielded 12 pages of just New Testament quotations. This was from first and second generation copies of the autographs...and lo'and behold in 90% of the quotations they agree with the Majority Text....and includes passages (like Mark 16:9) that Sin and Vat delete....and this is hundreds of years before these two conflicting and heavily edited texts were even written.

Sin and Vat (upon which their translation is mixed and matched) is so much in disagreement with each other it is said you cannot go four passages with out a variance or discrepancy. And then what is worse is that the versions born of it (accept the original RSV and the NASB) use a "Dynamic Equivalent" approach where the translators implant and impose (knowingly or unknowingly) doctrinal bias.

I am not a KJV onlyist, but truth is truth and what I have stated above is true...

In His love

brother Paul
 
Would you take a magic marker to your Bible and cross out words from passages?

Welcome to the Amazing Westcott and Hort Magic Marker Binge!

The chart below illustrates what was done when the text used by Christianity for 1800 years was replaced with a text assembled by Brook Foss Westcott and Fenton John Anthony Hort in the nineteenth century and used as the basis for the English Revised Version, which nearly all modern translations closely follow.

The text shown here is the King James Version. Words, sentences, or entire verses in strikethrough illustrate portions that have been removed from the text underlying the KJV New Testament. Not all modern versions are the same. Sometimes the ESV will include a word the NIV doesn't, or the NASB might omit a phrase the NIV and NRSV both retain, etc... but for the most part, the examples below represent nearly all of the popular modern versions. (Psudeo-KJV versions such as the NKJV are far more subtle and are a different case. See the articles section for NKJV examinations.)

Compare your modern version and see what the KJV has that yours doesn't. This list is not comprehensive, it is just a sample! The modern critical text that forms the basis for nearly all modern versions omits the equivalent of the entire books of 1st and 2nd Peter.

Critics commonly charge that the traditional Bible text used by believers for 1800 years adds material, and that we should be thankful for Westcott and Hort who came along in the 19th century to restore the text of the New Testament that had been corrupt for 1800 years and during the entire reformation. This charge is of course made against evidence to the contrary, as you will find if you research the text lines (read other articles on this website). Further, it is interesting to note that one of these verses is this:

Romans 13:9: For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

The phrase "thou shalt not bear false witness" is missing from the modern critical text (and therefor most modern versions). Now I ask you: is it reasonable to assume that a scribe added a self-incriminating phrase to the passage? Isn't it more likely that "those who corrupt the word of God" (2 Cor. 2:17, KJV) removed the phrase which indicted them?

http://av1611.com/kjbp/charts/themagicmarker.html

tob

Very good TOB, I am presently studying these things from Author, David W. Cloud. I have added the website to my research articles. Thank you for defending the KJV.
 
This entire thread is based on the fallacious arguments used by KJVOism. KJVOism and sites like av1611.com do a horrendous disservice to Christianity by causing needless disagreement and division. KJVOism is among the most irrational positions in Christianity, and likely is the most irrational. It is so utterly discouraging that Christians fall for this sort of complete nonsense.
 
Your welcome Chopper we have something the others lack.. knowledge that we have the real thing..no guess work.. no wondering if i can trust the bible that's in my hands.. :)

Satan a master at guesswork.. he's been doing it from the beginning

tob
 
I like the kjv, but shoot If I wanted to be that as the kjvo, I guess I would say that jesus spoke not aramiac, and not Hebrew but Elizabethan English. if I wanted to be that concerned I would devote most of my time to learn biblical Hebrew and koine greek. and speak them and use them to win souls. oh yeah I cant. most don't speak them. so when I translate the bible. somehow my personal bias wouldn't come into play? the niv isn't a good study bible. but its usable.

I don't even like the lxx. I call that the niv of the tanach.look that up and see the Hebrew words verses the greek words. the Hebrews admit they didn't translate that literally. so I guess we toss the book of luke out. it used the lxx for the lineage and also parts of the book of Hebrews did as well.hmmmmmmmmm
 
I think turnorburn has finished listing the errors of the KJV (which he believes are errors of modern texts and translations). I examined the first one he posted (reply #7), so, as promised, here is a look at the last one he listed.

John 17:12 “in the world” is not in the earliest manuscripts available. These include, of course, p66 (mid-second century papyrus) and aleph (fourth century).

In addition to Westcott and Hort’s text, this phrase is also not found in the NA28 (Nestle-Aland) nor in the UBS (United Bible Societies) texts.

Nor is it found in the following translations:

“While I was with them, I kept them in thy name….” - ASV.

“While I was with them, I kept and preserved them in Your Name….” - AMP.

“When I was with them, I watched over them in your name….” - CEB.

“While I was with them, I kept them safe by the power you have given me.” - CEV.

“While I was with them, I kept them in thy name.” - Douay.

“While I was with them, I kept them safe by the power of your name….” - ERV.

“While I was with them, I kept them in your name,” - ESV.

“While I was with them, I kept them safe by the power of your name,” - God’s Word.

“While I was with them, I kept them safe by the power of your name,” - GNT.

“While I was with them,
I was protecting them by Your name” - HCSB.

“When I was with them, I kept them in your name,” - LEB.

“While I was with them, I was keeping them in Your name….” - NASB.

“While I was with them, I kept them safe by the power of your name,” - NCV.

“When I was with them I kept them safe and watched over them in your name….” - NET.

“While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe….” - NIV.

“During my time here, I protected them by the power of the name….” - NLT.

“While I was with them, I protected them in your name….” - NRSV.

“While I was with them, I kept them in thy name,” - RSV.

“While I was with them, I took care of them in your name,” - WE.

http://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/John%2017:12
 
This entire thread is based on the fallacious arguments used by KJVOism. KJVOism and sites like av1611.com do a horrendous disservice to Christianity by causing needless disagreement and division. KJVOism is among the most irrational positions in Christianity, and likely is the most irrational. It is so utterly discouraging that Christians fall for this sort of complete nonsense.

Actually Free, it is the Westcott-Hort textual theory that has done a horrendous disservice to Christianity by producing a text that removes important verses. Before you go too far with your anti KJV theory, I suggest that you study http://av1611.com/kjbp/charts/themagicmarker.html. This is what TOB in his OP gave us.

I am not a King James only student of the Bible. I have the ESV, NKJV, and NIV. I use them in certain situations. If I want to be accurate, without any doubt to what a verse is saying, I refer to the KJV.

I have found that anti KJV folk simply have not studied thuroughly the
Your welcome Chopper we have something the others lack.. knowledge that we have the real thing..no guess work.. no wondering if i can trust the bible that's in my hands.. :)

Satan a master at guesswork.. he's been doing it from the beginning

tob

You are soooo right my friend! God has preserved His precious Word! And the KJV is that preserved Word for modern man. We do not need the other so called translations, there are way to many errors. I am very surprised that these people who added or subtracted from God's Word did not take seriously God's warning not to do that.
 
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