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Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
And your point is...? The word "Allah," as I'm sure you know, is just Arabic for "God". What you are implying and where you are very wrong is that the Bible teaches that Allah, as Islam reveals him, is also the God of Jews and Christians.
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TheStudent
Guest
"the Bible teaches that Allah, as Islam reveals him, is also the God of Jews and Christians."
so you personally do not have a problem with using 'Allah' in your prayers?
so you personally do not have a problem with using 'Allah' in your prayers?
K
Khristeeanos
Guest
In Sura 41:9,10,12 the Koran says that it took God eight days to create. (4+2+2=8) But in Genesis 1:31 it tells us that God took only 6. Also in Sura 7:51 and 10:3 the Koran tells us that God took 6 days. We have a clear-cut contradiction.
Does God give us messages that are directly contradictory?
Does God give us messages that are directly contradictory?
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TheStudent
Guest
Diem,
lets look a little deeper:
41:9] Say, "You disbelieve in the One who created the earth in two days, and you set up idols to rank with Him, though He is Lord of the universe."
[41:10] He placed on it stabilizers, made it productive, and He calculated its provisions in four days, to satisfy the needs of all its inhabitants
[41:11] Then He turned to the sky, when it was still gas, and said to it, and to the earth, "Come into existence, willingly or unwillingly." They said, "We come willingly
41:12] Thus, He completed the seven universes in two days, and set up the laws for every universe. And we adorned the lowest universe with lamps, and placed guards around it. Such is the design of the Almighty, the Omniscient.
The Quran is different from the bible. it is not written as a story. When searching for answers you must piece together all of the verses which deal with a specific subject to get the full picture.
thus
[10:3] Your only Lord is GOD; the One who created the heavens and the earth in six days, then assumed all authority. He controls all matters. There is no intercessor, except in accordance with His will. Such is GOD your Lord. You shall worship Him. Would you not take heed?
so from here we can see that it took 6 days (periods of time) to create EVERYTHING.
Thus we can see that 41:9 and 41:10 happened AT THE SAME TIME.
The remaining 2 days were used to create the universe
lets look a little deeper:
41:9] Say, "You disbelieve in the One who created the earth in two days, and you set up idols to rank with Him, though He is Lord of the universe."
[41:10] He placed on it stabilizers, made it productive, and He calculated its provisions in four days, to satisfy the needs of all its inhabitants
[41:11] Then He turned to the sky, when it was still gas, and said to it, and to the earth, "Come into existence, willingly or unwillingly." They said, "We come willingly
41:12] Thus, He completed the seven universes in two days, and set up the laws for every universe. And we adorned the lowest universe with lamps, and placed guards around it. Such is the design of the Almighty, the Omniscient.
The Quran is different from the bible. it is not written as a story. When searching for answers you must piece together all of the verses which deal with a specific subject to get the full picture.
thus
[10:3] Your only Lord is GOD; the One who created the heavens and the earth in six days, then assumed all authority. He controls all matters. There is no intercessor, except in accordance with His will. Such is GOD your Lord. You shall worship Him. Would you not take heed?
so from here we can see that it took 6 days (periods of time) to create EVERYTHING.
Thus we can see that 41:9 and 41:10 happened AT THE SAME TIME.
The remaining 2 days were used to create the universe
I do not pray using Allah because I am not Arabic and do not pray to the God of Islam. I use the English 'God' because English is my first language and 'Allah' carries a different connotation. If, however, an Arab Christian uses Allah in their prayers in reference to the Christian God, I don't have a problem.TheStudent said:
G
Gary
Guest
IS ALLAH THE GOD OF BIBLE?
We are well aware that the name Allah is used by Arab speaking Christians for the God of the Bible. In fact, the root from which the name is derived from, ilah, stems from the ancient Semitic languages, corresponding to the Mesopotamian IL, as well as the Hebrew-Aramaic EL, as in Ishma-el, Immanu-el, Isra-el. These terms were often used to refer to any deity worshiped as a high god, especially the chief deity amongst a pantheon of lesser gods. As such, the Holy Bible uses the term as just one of the many titles for Yahweh, the only true God.
Yet the problem arises from the fact that Muslims insist that Allah is not a title, but the personal name of the God of Islam. This becomes problematic since according to the Holy Bible the name of the God of Abraham is Yahweh/Jehovah, not Allah:
Read more: -IS ALLAH THE GOD OF BIBLE?-
We are well aware that the name Allah is used by Arab speaking Christians for the God of the Bible. In fact, the root from which the name is derived from, ilah, stems from the ancient Semitic languages, corresponding to the Mesopotamian IL, as well as the Hebrew-Aramaic EL, as in Ishma-el, Immanu-el, Isra-el. These terms were often used to refer to any deity worshiped as a high god, especially the chief deity amongst a pantheon of lesser gods. As such, the Holy Bible uses the term as just one of the many titles for Yahweh, the only true God.
Yet the problem arises from the fact that Muslims insist that Allah is not a title, but the personal name of the God of Islam. This becomes problematic since according to the Holy Bible the name of the God of Abraham is Yahweh/Jehovah, not Allah:
- God spoke further to Moses and said to him, "I am Yahweh (YHVH) and I appeared to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as God Almighty; BUT BY MY NAME, YAHWEH, I did not make myself known to them." Exodus 6:2-3
Read more: -IS ALLAH THE GOD OF BIBLE?-
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TheStudent
Guest
lets look at that verse in more detail to see how correct you are:
Exodus 6:2-3 (21st Century King James Version)
And God spoke unto Moses and said unto him, "I am the LORD.
And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob by the name of God Almighty, but by My name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.
Exodus 6:2-3 (English Standard Version)
God spoke to Moses and said to him, "I am the LORD. I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, as God Almighty, but by my name the LORD I did not make myself known to them
Exodus 6:2-3 (New International Version)
God also said to Moses, "I am the LORD . I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac and to Jacob as God Almighty, [a] but by my name the LORD I did not make myself known to them.
xodus 6:2-3 (New King James Version)
And God spoke to Moses and said to him: "I am the LORD. I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, as God Almighty, but by My name LORD I was not known to them.
and yes Allah is one of the names of God. He has 98 others. do a search for His 99 names.these are only the ones that He has revealed to us in the Quran. His real number of names is infinite. this of course allows space for 'Yahweh' to be one of them
Exodus 6:2-3 (21st Century King James Version)
And God spoke unto Moses and said unto him, "I am the LORD.
And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob by the name of God Almighty, but by My name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.
Exodus 6:2-3 (English Standard Version)
God spoke to Moses and said to him, "I am the LORD. I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, as God Almighty, but by my name the LORD I did not make myself known to them
Exodus 6:2-3 (New International Version)
God also said to Moses, "I am the LORD . I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac and to Jacob as God Almighty, [a] but by my name the LORD I did not make myself known to them.
xodus 6:2-3 (New King James Version)
And God spoke to Moses and said to him: "I am the LORD. I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, as God Almighty, but by My name LORD I was not known to them.
and yes Allah is one of the names of God. He has 98 others. do a search for His 99 names.these are only the ones that He has revealed to us in the Quran. His real number of names is infinite. this of course allows space for 'Yahweh' to be one of them
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TheStudent
Guest
lets look at that verse in more detail to see how correct you are:
Exodus 6:2-3 (21st Century King James Version)
And God spoke unto Moses and said unto him, "I am the LORD.
And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob by the name of God Almighty, but by My name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.
Exodus 6:2-3 (English Standard Version)
God spoke to Moses and said to him, "I am the LORD. I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, as God Almighty, but by my name the LORD I did not make myself known to them
Exodus 6:2-3 (New International Version)
God also said to Moses, "I am the LORD . I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac and to Jacob as God Almighty, [a] but by my name the LORD I did not make myself known to them.
xodus 6:2-3 (New King James Version)
And God spoke to Moses and said to him: "I am the LORD. I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, as God Almighty, but by My name LORD I was not known to them.
and yes Allah is one of the names of God. He has 98 others. do a search for His 99 names.these are only the ones that He has revealed to us in the Quran. His real number of names is infinite. this of course allows space for 'Yahweh' to be one of them
Exodus 6:2-3 (21st Century King James Version)
And God spoke unto Moses and said unto him, "I am the LORD.
And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob by the name of God Almighty, but by My name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.
Exodus 6:2-3 (English Standard Version)
God spoke to Moses and said to him, "I am the LORD. I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, as God Almighty, but by my name the LORD I did not make myself known to them
Exodus 6:2-3 (New International Version)
God also said to Moses, "I am the LORD . I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac and to Jacob as God Almighty, [a] but by my name the LORD I did not make myself known to them.
xodus 6:2-3 (New King James Version)
And God spoke to Moses and said to him: "I am the LORD. I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, as God Almighty, but by My name LORD I was not known to them.
and yes Allah is one of the names of God. He has 98 others. do a search for His 99 names.these are only the ones that He has revealed to us in the Quran. His real number of names is infinite. this of course allows space for 'Yahweh' to be one of them
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Agarash
Guest
TheStudent >>>
and you may know this already, but i found it very interresting:
not really, the bible isnt written chronologically at all.
and you may know this already, but i found it very interresting:
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TheStudent
Guest
The Qur'an directs all Muslims to believe in the Scriptures that precede it (sura 4, verse 136).
----
it means the ORIGINAL scripture, not the distorted ones in use today. so yes i believe that a gospel was revealed to jesus. but where today can you see a gospel of jesus?
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it means the ORIGINAL scripture, not the distorted ones in use today. so yes i believe that a gospel was revealed to jesus. but where today can you see a gospel of jesus?
Many Muslims make this claim but none has ever provided proof to back it up. Please, enlighten us and tell us what texts Muhammad copied of off to get the bits of truth that he does about Jesus. Or, if you want to claim that it was all revealed to him by Allah, which you will, then you need to provide proof from the texts in the original languages.TheStudent said:
Please, show us these distortions; prove that Muhammad's version of Jesus Christ is the correct one, that it agrees with what Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John originally wrote. You've made the claim, now it is time to back it up.
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TheStudent
Guest
simply because there are multiple denominations of christinity.
simply because there are 1 billion catholics but non-catholics call them non-christian.
simply because there are multiple versions of the bible
simply because there are obvious errors in the bible.
simply because this bible you read today was not finalised until hundreds of years after the ascension of christ.
simply because of things like the council in nicacea* chopped and changed doctrine to their own will.
simply because their are many christians who dont believe christ is god or son of god but a prophet.
simply because MANY christians leave christianity daily for other faiths.
simply because jesus didnt write ONE word of todays accepted gospels.
and simply because islam exists and is the fastest growing religion in the world. and simply because there are FAR TOO MANY prophecies by muhammed that have proven true and the sign of a true prophet is if his prophecies come true.
simply because there are 1 billion catholics but non-catholics call them non-christian.
simply because there are multiple versions of the bible
simply because there are obvious errors in the bible.
simply because this bible you read today was not finalised until hundreds of years after the ascension of christ.
simply because of things like the council in nicacea* chopped and changed doctrine to their own will.
simply because their are many christians who dont believe christ is god or son of god but a prophet.
simply because MANY christians leave christianity daily for other faiths.
simply because jesus didnt write ONE word of todays accepted gospels.
and simply because islam exists and is the fastest growing religion in the world. and simply because there are FAR TOO MANY prophecies by muhammed that have proven true and the sign of a true prophet is if his prophecies come true.
So far all you have given are baseless claims with no proof to back anything up. If you want to state that the Bible as it is now is corrupted and not the same as the originals, then prove it, now, by using "original" texts. It's time to put up or...
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TheStudent
Guest
dont you see??
if this original scriptures existed today then we wouldnt be having this conversation!
you wouldnt be a christian but a muslim.
answer me, how many books of the bible were there?
who decided which ones to CHOOSE to be in todays bible?
why do you not still accept and read from these UNCHOSEN books?
how long AFTER the death of christ was the bible fully finished?
read:
IT'S MIND-BOGGLING! The Bible is not one book, but a library of 66 books written over a 1500-year period in 3 languages by 40 authors living in 10 different countries.
In 303 the Roman Emperor Diocletian sponsored the last empire-wide persecution of the Christians. His edicts demanded that churches be destroyed and the scriptures burned. Some Christians themselves were burned because they refused to turn over their sacred books.
http://chi.gospelcom.net/GLIMPSEF/Glimp ... s056.shtml
so here we have multiple authors, none of them jesus. christians getting burned and killed by other christians!! thats one heck of a holy spirit you got there...
if this original scriptures existed today then we wouldnt be having this conversation!
you wouldnt be a christian but a muslim.
answer me, how many books of the bible were there?
who decided which ones to CHOOSE to be in todays bible?
why do you not still accept and read from these UNCHOSEN books?
how long AFTER the death of christ was the bible fully finished?
read:
IT'S MIND-BOGGLING! The Bible is not one book, but a library of 66 books written over a 1500-year period in 3 languages by 40 authors living in 10 different countries.
In 303 the Roman Emperor Diocletian sponsored the last empire-wide persecution of the Christians. His edicts demanded that churches be destroyed and the scriptures burned. Some Christians themselves were burned because they refused to turn over their sacred books.
http://chi.gospelcom.net/GLIMPSEF/Glimp ... s056.shtml
so here we have multiple authors, none of them jesus. christians getting burned and killed by other christians!! thats one heck of a holy spirit you got there...
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Agarash
Guest
this can go both ways. if there was any original scripts left of the qu'ran you would not be having this conversation. you must stop putting the bible through certain tests and then exclude the qu'ran from it.
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Agarash
Guest
i mentioned this in another topic also, the fact that its more authors that all write the same story, makes it so much more reliable to me rather than one man who had nobody to confrim what happened to him in a cave.
But yet you said:TheStudent said:
If we don't have the original Scriptures of the Bible, then how do you know that the ones today are distorted? How do you know that the Bible has been changed from the originals?
"The Qur'an directs all Muslims to believe in the Scriptures that precede it (sura 4, verse 136)."
Either the current texts are distorted or they are not. Provide proof to back up your claim. You still have given zero evidence of your claims against Christianity.
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TheStudent
Guest
there is a famous book of Hadith (sayings and actions attributed to Muhammed) by imam bukhari.
all of its entries were gathered from people who claim they had seen or heard muhammed. this collection of hadith was done under strict rules and conditions. people would be selected dependent on their reputation and faith in islam. there is a very strict science to it.also if imam bukhari found that a multitude of people told him the same saying of muhammed, then this would be deemed absoulutely true as it would be unlikely that a large group of people would transmit the same lie. also each before each hadith can be seen the name if the person who transmited it it has a strong 'chain of transmission'. for example:
'Narrated by Abdullah bin Yazid Al Ansari (Radhiallaho anho): The Prophet (sallallaahu 'alaihi wasallam) forbade robbery (taking away what belongs to others without their permission), and also forbade mutilation (or maiming) of bodies. Bukhari Vol. 3 : No. 654'
but even though there are hundreds of hadith in this one book, muslims do not deem them as holy or the words of God.they are mainly used to explain the verses of Quran in the prophets words, thus they are very important. infact there have been many times when hadith have been fasley attributed to the prophet to further the desires of men. the general rule is, if any hadith contradicts the Quran, it is false.
now we have the Bible. itself not the word of Jesus but was, as chrisitians admit, transmitted from person to person, the same as the collection of Hadith. itslef relied on eye witnesses and their truthfullness. but where is the 'science' of the collection of the bible? where is the 'chain of transmission'? i havent seen it. does it just rely on the claims of 4 main writers? who were they? what is their background? but the main question to ask is 'where they prophets?' did they speak DIRECT with God? No. they relied on the words of other men plus not forgetting the fact that early christians were killed as heretics and had their copies of scripture burned if it didnt agree with Pauls teachings. now, as some of the Hadith, they have become corrupted and used for the desires of men.
so as we can see the Bible is very different from the Quran but is infact similar to the collection of Hadith. the same hadith which we dont call HOLY. remember jesus didnt write ANY of the bible, yet you base your WHOLE belef on it and him. so can you call it authentic? that is for your conscience to decide.
and bear in mind, jesus may have raised the dead with permission from Allah, but the miracle of Muhammed, which is still apparent today and continually draws christians, jews and non-believers to it is the Quran. It is a miracle which is right in front of you. just read it.
all of its entries were gathered from people who claim they had seen or heard muhammed. this collection of hadith was done under strict rules and conditions. people would be selected dependent on their reputation and faith in islam. there is a very strict science to it.also if imam bukhari found that a multitude of people told him the same saying of muhammed, then this would be deemed absoulutely true as it would be unlikely that a large group of people would transmit the same lie. also each before each hadith can be seen the name if the person who transmited it it has a strong 'chain of transmission'. for example:
'Narrated by Abdullah bin Yazid Al Ansari (Radhiallaho anho): The Prophet (sallallaahu 'alaihi wasallam) forbade robbery (taking away what belongs to others without their permission), and also forbade mutilation (or maiming) of bodies. Bukhari Vol. 3 : No. 654'
but even though there are hundreds of hadith in this one book, muslims do not deem them as holy or the words of God.they are mainly used to explain the verses of Quran in the prophets words, thus they are very important. infact there have been many times when hadith have been fasley attributed to the prophet to further the desires of men. the general rule is, if any hadith contradicts the Quran, it is false.
now we have the Bible. itself not the word of Jesus but was, as chrisitians admit, transmitted from person to person, the same as the collection of Hadith. itslef relied on eye witnesses and their truthfullness. but where is the 'science' of the collection of the bible? where is the 'chain of transmission'? i havent seen it. does it just rely on the claims of 4 main writers? who were they? what is their background? but the main question to ask is 'where they prophets?' did they speak DIRECT with God? No. they relied on the words of other men plus not forgetting the fact that early christians were killed as heretics and had their copies of scripture burned if it didnt agree with Pauls teachings. now, as some of the Hadith, they have become corrupted and used for the desires of men.
so as we can see the Bible is very different from the Quran but is infact similar to the collection of Hadith. the same hadith which we dont call HOLY. remember jesus didnt write ANY of the bible, yet you base your WHOLE belef on it and him. so can you call it authentic? that is for your conscience to decide.
and bear in mind, jesus may have raised the dead with permission from Allah, but the miracle of Muhammed, which is still apparent today and continually draws christians, jews and non-believers to it is the Quran. It is a miracle which is right in front of you. just read it.
First off, your entire post still does not address the point I made, so I will make it again and will continue making it until you provide proof, or admit that you have none and none exists.
If we don't have the original Scriptures of the Bible, then how do you know that the ones today are distorted? How do you know that the Bible has been changed from the originals?
"The Qur'an directs all Muslims to believe in the Scriptures that precede it (sura 4, verse 136)."
Either the current texts are distorted or they are not. Provide proof to back up your claim. You still have given zero evidence of your claims against Christianity.
That is certainly an oversimplification and misrepresentation of what happened.
Back to the points at the top: You claim that the modern Bibles are distorted from the originals. You also claim that the originals are no longer in existence. Please, tell me, what evdience do you then have that the Bible was distorted? When was it distorted? By whom was it distorted?
If we don't have the original Scriptures of the Bible, then how do you know that the ones today are distorted? How do you know that the Bible has been changed from the originals?
"The Qur'an directs all Muslims to believe in the Scriptures that precede it (sura 4, verse 136)."
Either the current texts are distorted or they are not. Provide proof to back up your claim. You still have given zero evidence of your claims against Christianity.
The keyword there is "eyewitnesses," of which Muhammad has none.TheStudent said:
You need to clarify what mean by the "Bible." You seem to think that the Bible only consists of the 4 gospels which are only 4 of 66 books in the Bible. There are numerous writers.TheStudent said:
Whether or not they were prophets is irrelevant. The question is did God speak to them; were their words inspired and given by God? Yes, they were.TheStudent said:
And of course that has never happened in Islam. :roll: [/sarcasm]TheStudent said:
That is certainly an oversimplification and misrepresentation of what happened.
Back to the points at the top: You claim that the modern Bibles are distorted from the originals. You also claim that the originals are no longer in existence. Please, tell me, what evdience do you then have that the Bible was distorted? When was it distorted? By whom was it distorted?