The call of the Father.

[Watchman 2]

Nobody comes to Christ, unless the Father calls them.

I think most would agree, that this calling out from the Father is the beginning of the Salvation journey.

My question to the group, is could the Father call someone out ( say before the scriptures were available to the masses 15th century ) to respond in Faith, even though they have never heard of Christ or the good news of the Gospel?

 

[WIP]

Nobody comes to Christ, unless the Father calls them.

I think most would agree, that this calling out from the Father is the beginning of the Salvation journey.

My question to the group, is could the Father call someone out ( say before the scriptures were available to the masses 15th century ) to respond in Faith, even though they have never heard of Christ or the good news of the Gospel?

But doesn't God call everyone? Unfortunately, not everyone responds to the call.

32 "And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself.”
John 12:32 NKJV

3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus,
6 who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time,...
1 Timothy 2:3-6 NKJV

 

[Watchman 2]

But doesn't God call everyone? Unfortunately, not everyone responds to the call.

32 "And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself.”
John 12:32 NKJV

3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus,
6 who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time,...
1 Timothy 2:3-6 NKJV

My reply to that question would be no God doesn't call everyone.

The Greek texts are specific, God calls a small group out from among a larger group of ones that are not called.

"Many are called , but few are chosen"

" Many" , not all.

Does this mean that only the few chosen Kimwill be saved?
My understanding is, that the households of those few could be saved. Much more evidence to this statement, but this thread is about those who don't know Christ or the Gospel, can they respond in Faith?

I'll set the stage.

Christ gave His life on the Cross To be the perfect sacrifice for the sins of the world, He purchased the entire field! So in doing that, Grace was available to any human being ever born.

Could the Father call out someone who has never heard the Gospel or the name Jesus Christ? And could they respond to that Call with saving Faith?

 

[Who Me]

My question to the group, is could the Father call someone out ( say before the scriptures were available to the masses 15th century ) to respond in Faith, even though they have never heard of Christ or the good news of the Gospel

God has called people to himself before the invention of printing.
Have you never read of Naman in the OT, he came to faith in God through the witness of a slave girl.

The point you need to remember is that God doesn't just call.
He also provides the means/message that saves.
In Naman's case he got to experience a miracle.

 

[WIP]

My reply to that question would be no God doesn't call everyone.

The Greek texts are specific, God calls a small group out from among a larger group of ones that are not called.

"Many are called , but few are chosen"

" Many" , not all.

Does this mean that only the few chosen Kimwill be saved?
My understanding is, that the households of those few could be saved. Much more evidence to this statement, but this thread is about those who don't know Christ or the Gospel, can they respond in Faith?

I'll set the stage.

Christ gave His life on the Cross To be the perfect sacrifice for the sins of the world, He purchased the entire field! So in doing that, Grace was available to any human being ever born.

Could the Father call out someone who has never heard the Gospel or the name Jesus Christ? And could they respond to that Call with saving Faith?

We have to be careful not to use one verse or two to form our theology. Scripture does not contradict, but it would seem that the verses we shared contradict. So what is the truth?

I believe God issues a call to everyone but perhaps He only chooses those who accept the call.

I agree that Christ's sacrifice was for all through His sacrifice grace is available to all. But unfortunately not all accept the gift.

"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
John 3:16 NKJV

 

[Watchman 2]

God has called people to himself before the invention of printing.
Have you never read of Naman in the OT, he came to faith in God through the witness of a slave girl.

The point you need to remember is that God doesn't just call.
He also provides the means/message that saves.
In Naman's case he got to experience a miracle.

So what's your answer?
Can the Father call someone out that has never heard the name Jesus Christ or heard the Gospel?

Can that person respond with an act of saving Faith that if continued, will result in recieving the Spirit of Christ?

 

[Watchman 2]

We have to be careful not to use one verse or two to form our theology. Scripture does not contradict, but it would seem that the verses we shared contradict. So what is the truth?

I believe God issues a call to everyone but perhaps He only chooses those who accept the call.

I agree that Christ's sacrifice was for all through His sacrifice grace is available to all. But unfortunately not all accept the gift.

"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
John 3:16 NKJV

Back to the question.

Can a person called by the Father, that has never heard of Christ or His Gospel, respond in saving Faith that if continued will result in recieving the Spirit of Christ?

 

[Susannah]

Back to the question.

Can a person called by the Father, that has never heard of Christ or His Gospel, respond in saving Faith that if continued will result in recieving the Spirit of Christ?

We were discussing this on another thread . . .

The Great Controversy

I am a Quaker (Society of Friends) and we have a doctrine of "universalism" that allows people who have not heard of Christ go to heaven by virtue of following the spirit of the scriptures without having read them. They are filled with the Holy Spirit and do his bidding. So the Bible is written on their hearts so to speak not in their brain.[

 

[Watchman 2]

We have to be careful not to use one verse or two to form our theology. Scripture does not contradict, but it would seem that the verses we shared contradict. So what is the truth?

I believe God issues a call to everyone but perhaps He only chooses those who accept the call.

I agree that Christ's sacrifice was for all through His sacrifice grace is available to all. But unfortunately not all accept the gift.

"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
John 3:16 NKJV

Why did Christ speak in parables?

So some would not accidentally hear, understand,and he would have to save them.

 

[Watchman 2]

We were discussing this on another thread . . .

The Great Controversy

Discussing what?

 

[Watchman 2]

We were discussing this on another thread . . .

The Great Controversy

I am a Quaker (Society of Friends) and we have a doctrine of "universalism" that allows people who have not heard of Christ go to heaven by virtue of following the spirit of the scriptures without having read them. They are filled with the Holy Spirit and do his bidding. So the Bible is written on their hearts so to speak not in their brain.

Ok, I'm following.

So they feel they have a call by the Father, what specific act of Faith do they fulfill in order to receive the Spirit of Christ?

 

[Susannah]

I agree that everyone gets the call at least once. I got two calls. One to surrender to God [1982] and the other to believe in the resurrection [2015].

 

[Susannah]

That is a good question. For Quakers they first get a call from the Holy Spirit. It is a gift freely given. Then, once you surrender to the Holy Spirit you are guided during meditation to do his will. The Bible also guides us but the Holy Spirit has the final say.

 

[Watchman 2]

I agree that everyone gets the call at least once. I got two calls. One to surrender to God [1982] and the other to believe in the resurrection [2015].

I don't agree that everyone is called, but that's another discussion.

 

[Susannah]

Many are called but few are chosen. Matthew 22:14

I am open to the idea that only some are called. I never really thought about out. I just always assumed that God would give everyone at least one chance.

 

[Watchman 2]

That is a good question. For Quakers they first get a call from the Holy Spirit. It is a gift freely given. Then, once you surrender to the Holy Spirit you are guided during meditation to do his will. The Bible also guides us but the Holy Spirit has the final say.

That's why I said " if continued" results in recieving the Spirit of Christ.

Do you agree with the Quakers? If so , what is your understanding of " surrender"?

 

[Watchman 2]

Many are called but few are chosen.

Many , not all.

 

[Susannah]

We are born without knowing the story of Christ. At some point the Holy Spirit comes to us. We did nothing to deserve this but usually he calls out people with a gift that can help him spread his message of love.

If we accept the call we surrender. Surrendering in like a contract. From this point on we turn our entire life over to God and all of hour self-will. We are now Christ Centered.

We then follow the Bible in terms of everything we do. Our main focus in on love and charity although some Quakers veer off the path and help out the society in general. An example would be Susan B. Anthony who fought for women to get suffrage. She was a Quaker.

When we gather we meditate asking for God's will and the next task to perform. Then we do God's will in everything.

We stress simplicity an living without material possession. I live in a room with just a few clothes. No jewelry.

This personal relationship with God through the Holy Spirit fulfills me in ways that is hard to describe.

 

[Susannah]

What happens to people who are never called?

 

[Susannah]

I am codependent so I worry a lot about people who don't get at least a chance to go to heaven if they are good. Sorry