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JLB

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I tried twice J....can't explain it better than that.
It has to do with retroactivity.....
Jesus was born in the year 6 o7 BC.

If we want to call THE SON OF GOD, or THE 2ND PERSON OF THE TRINITY Jesus,,,that would be retroactive.

The first Pope was named in about 600 AD.
IF we want to call Peter the first pope,,,that has to be retroactive.

There is no such office or title in the Bible as Pope.




JLB
 

for_his_glory

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Just a question here.

In all of this postulating on the nature of some triune God, as far as the Son of God goes: how do you factor the creation of a New Spirit into your model?
All depends on what you mean by the creation of a New Spirit. Could you clarify that?
 

for_his_glory

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I think we get so philosophical within our search that we miss the fundamental nature of God found in the Trinity/Deity. Father, Son Jesus and the Holy Spirit equals all the divine nature of God within the fullness of the Godhead as being the supernatural nature of God's Spirit as Ephesians 3:14-19; Colossians 2:9 shows this supernatural nature.

John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

Titus 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

Ephesians 3:14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named, 16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man; 17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, 18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height; 19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.

Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Let us not forget all the scriptures where Jesus claimed to be the Great I Am and Alpha and Omega. Can we fully understand it, no, but just believe He Is.
 

ezrider

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All depends on what you mean by the creation of a New Spirit. Could you clarify that?
The birth, death and resurrection of Christ, from the Son of Man to the Son of God was the creation of a New Spirit. The Spirit of the Son.
 

for_his_glory

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The birth, death and resurrection of Christ, from the Son of Man to the Son of God was the creation of a New Spirit. The Spirit of the Son.
The only creation of a New Spirit that I understand would be that of the Holy Spirit, being the Spirit of God, that indwells us within our renewed inner man through the Spiritual renewal from above.

God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit has always been before the foundation of the world as all being the very Spirit that is God. God, Jesus and Holy Spirit are titles of God's nature in various forms presented to us. Jesus and the Holy Spirit can do nothing on their own as all three are one in unity with each other.

Like I have said many times that none of us can ever fully understand Deity other than knowing it is all God's Spirit.
 

ezrider

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The only creation of a New Spirit that I understand would be that of the Holy Spirit, being the Spirit of God, that indwells us within our renewed inner man through the Spiritual renewal from above.
How is it that someone can say the subject is beyond our comprehension but then fall back to only what they understand? That I can't comprehend.

Is it not written in the scripture that God should create a new heaven and earth?

How should you be made into a son except the Spirit of the Son be first created? Else how should the Lord God send the Spirit of the Son into your hearts crying Abba, Father?

Ezekiel 36:26
A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
 

ezrider

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John 14:28
Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.



If Jesus said the Father is Greater than I (the Son), then how can the Son be co-equal in this trinity doctrine being discussed here?
 

for_his_glory

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How is it that someone can say the subject is beyond our comprehension but then fall back to only what they understand? That I can't comprehend.

Is it not written in the scripture that God should create a new heaven and earth?

How should you be made into a son except the Spirit of the Son be first created? Else how should the Lord God send the Spirit of the Son into your hearts crying Abba, Father?

Ezekiel 36:26
A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
Some things are beyond our comprehension as many things we can only know in part, 1 Corinthians 13:12.

What does God creating a new heaven and earth have todo with the topic?

Where does it say in scripture that the Spirit of the Son was created?

The spirit of the son being Jesus was not created, but has always been even before the foundation of the world as being the word, John 1:1-5. The Spirit of God that indwells us is His Son Christ Jesus as we are the Temple of God who indwells us by His Holy Spirit, 1 Corinthians 3:16.

Galatians 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

The new heart is that of the Spirit of God as His Son Jesus indwells us by God's Holy Spirit. All is of God and through God's Spirit.
 

for_his_glory

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John 14:28
Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.



If Jesus said the Father is Greater than I (the Son), then how can the Son be co-equal in this trinity doctrine being discussed here?
Within the incarnation Jesus was temporarily made a little lower than the angels, Hebrews 2:9, which was His nature when He took on human form. Jesus being the second person of the Trinity took on human flesh as a man. Within this He was fully man while here on earth that made Him lower than the angels, but yet He is fully divine. This is explained in Philippians 2:5-7.

Father, Son and Holy Spirit are all equal as they are all divine in nature and authority in God's plan of salvation as they play certain parts. All three are Deity as in supreme being as the fullness of the Godhead. The definition of Godhead is God, divine nature.
 

ezrider

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Some things are beyond our comprehension as many things we can only know in part, 1 Corinthians 13:12.
What is the scripture, full of knowledge yet with no understanding? It really enraged the Pharisees when Jesus spoke to them.


What does God creating a new heaven and earth have todo with the topic?
Really? There are three that bear record in Heaven, and three that bear record on Earth.



Where does it say in scripture that the Spirit of the Son was created?
The first man Adam, He was a Son of God. Was Adam created?

The last man Adam was created a quickening Spirit. The Spirit of the Son of God.
 

dianegcook

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Diane,

I urge you to defend that position from Scripture.

Making a statement as you have done here is nothing more than giving your personal opinion.

Oz
I have numerous times,
Isa.9:6
A child is born, His name, THE MIGHTY GOD, THE EVERLASTING FATHER.....
Jesus was God in the flesh, right?

We truly can't comprehend another dimension, but I take what His Word says...
The Word was God, John 1:1

There is only ONE GOD...manifested in the flesh, Jesus..
God's Spirit, the Holy Spirit....

These 3 roles are manifested in One God.

3 are ONE...

As the Serpent, Dragon, Devil, Satan, Lucifer, the so called Antichrist is ONE PERSON but several roles...which consist of the EVIL SPIRIT.....

That is how I see it....
To each his own, Good day.
 

dianegcook

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Diane, please consider that there are three distinct divine beings that make up the One Godhead.

The scripture is clear on this.

For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one. 1 John 5:7

  • These three are one. Very Specific.

It does not say, this one is three.


Elohim is plural for God.


There are three that comprise the one Godhead.




JLB
Yes, 1John 5:7
The Father, God
Word was God John 1:1
Holy Spirit is God's Spirit....
These 3 distinct roles are ONE

As, We all exist of body=flesh
Spirit =our spirit
Soul=our soul

These are 3 roles manifested in ONE PERSON..
We are not 3 persons....

Different dimensions...

But, to each his own.
Good day
 

StoveBolts

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Yes, 1John 5:7
The Father, God
Word was God John 1:1
Holy Spirit is God's Spirit....
These 3 distinct roles are ONE

As, We all exist of body=flesh
Spirit =our spirit
Soul=our soul

These are 3 roles manifested in ONE PERSON..
We are not 3 persons....

Different dimensions...

But, to each his own.
Good day
Hear oh Israel, the LORD our God is one.

In Hebrew, the word one does not take on a numeric value like any of the other words which represent numeric value.
 

ezrider

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For those who keep saying the Son as part of the trinity; The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit:

Was Adam part of the trinity?
Adam was called a Son of God. He was created
The first man Adam was created living soul..
The last man Adam was made a quickening Spirit...


How can the Son be part of the trinity (The Father, the Word and the Spirit) when the Son was created to be the express image of the trinity in the flesh?
 

dianegcook

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Hear oh Israel, the LORD our God is one.

In Hebrew, the word one does not take on a numeric value like any of the other words which represent numeric value.
Yes,
The ONLY God.
ALONE
Psa.86:10
 

Anto9us2

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The term PERSONA was taken from Greek drama.

A PERSONA was a large MASK that an actor wore, it had two functions. One, it portrayed the character being played. ( All actors were male, a female character's features were in the mask ).

Two, the PERSONA included a megaphone within it, in an age before microphones.

The Baptism of Jesus smashes Modalism, all 3 personae are active at the same time in that instance.

Jehovah is a made-up word.

This is a good thread on Trinity.

1st John 5:7, the Johannine Comma, I don't use to try to prove Trinity, because non-Trinitarians squeal about it's authenticity.
 

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