[_ Old Earth _] The Evolution of Religious Doctrines

[cupid dave]

Clearly, over the last 300 years, the trend can be clearly seen, that religious teachings about Genesis have been heading towards Theistic Evolution as the final step in interpretation.

Not only has the resistance to this evolution of theology been hurtful to Christianity, allowing the ridicule of bible Bashers to mock religion in general, and believers in particular, but it has reduced to membership of the Church.

When we take the long view in regard to the seven present attempts to explain Genesis, it is clear that little by little, ground has been lost by those who would insist unpon the Fundamentalism of six 24 hour durations and the absence of a process of natural events unfolding into the 12 steps of changes mentioned in Genesis 1.

The seven types of creationism:
1) Young Earth creationism
2) Old Earth creationism
3) Day-Age creationism
4) Progressive creationism
5) Gap creationism
6) Intelligent design
7) Theistic evolution

 

[Knotical]

I wonder where the framework hypothesis fits into this?

 

[The Unbeliever]

Is this some sort of Hegelian dialectic for Creationist narratives?

 

[cupid dave]

I wonder where the framework hypothesis fits into this?

Hmmm,...
The framework interpretation is held by many theistic evolutionists and some progressive creationists.

It attempts to reconcile the Science of today with Genesis by assuming the Evolution is correct and that we ought read Genesis in Frames of events rather than as a chronology.

It is essentially a sub-division of Theistic Evolution.
It assumes that Science and Genesis are both right, but that they must be understood on different levels of discussion.
This may be true, but it does not item by item show that Genesis says the same things as science.

It is a start, it is a beginning for the reader to entertain a comopatibilitty with Science.
It is an admission to the science into Genesis as areasonable consideration for bible believers.

 

[cupid dave]

Is this some sort of Hegelian dialectic for Creationist narratives?

EXACTLY....

Theistic Evolution is the anticipathed Synthesis to a long established Theological Thesis that has in the last couple of centuries been opposed by the Atheists Evolutionist Antithesis.

 

[Hammer]

Clearly, over the last 300 years, the trend can be clearly seen, that religious teachings about Genesis have been heading towards Theistic Evolution as the final step in interpretation.

What arrogance, to announce that your "Theistic Evolution" is the FINAL step in the interpretation of Genesis! Theistic Evolution is only the final step of a Christian, as a Christian, in his journey to Atheism.

Yes, Creationism is popularly ridiculed. We live in a society that hates Christianity. Creationism is incompatible with Atheism, so it cannot be tolerated. But, because it makes no statements about values, it can't be blown off as "hate."

CD, the Resurrection is also ridiculed.

 

[The Unbeliever]

What arrogance, to announce that your "Theistic Evolution" is the FINAL step in the interpretation of Genesis! Theistic Evolution is only the final step of a Christian, as a Christian, in his journey to Atheism.

Yes, Creationism is popularly ridiculed. We live in a society that hates Christianity. Creationism is incompatible with Atheism, so it cannot be tolerated. But, because it makes no statements about values, it can't be blown off as "hate."

CD, the Resurrection is also ridiculed.

I'm not a big fan of dialecticism myself. The process just seemed like a way to provide sophisticated obsfucation in order to screen the philosopher from any criticism while they arriving at whatever conclusion they wished.

But I do have to question your assertion that we live in a society that hates Christianity. I know my own experience as a non-Christian here in the United States has been of the highly pervasiveness of Christianity in our culture. I do understand that there have been changes in our culture away from explicit Christianity and towards a more secular society, it still has a long way to go before Christianity ceases to have a dominating impact on the culture.

 

[thightower]

The reason the evolution theory is even around is the time in history that we are in. Imagine the devil going up to Adam and Noah telling them the earth is billions of years old and the dinosaurs died millions of years ago, when these animals were on the earth with them.

 

[The Unbeliever]

The reason the evolution theory is even around is the time in history that we are in. Imagine the devil going up to Adam and Noah telling them the earth is billions of years old and the dinosaurs died millions of years ago, when these animals were on the earth with them.

True. I wouldn't believe it if I saw dinosaurs walking around either.

 

[Hammer]

But I do have to question your assertion that we live in a society that hates Christianity. I know my own experience as a non-Christian here in the United States has been of the highly pervasiveness of Christianity in our culture. I do understand that there have been changes in our culture away from explicit Christianity and towards a more secular society, it still has a long way to go before Christianity ceases to have a dominating impact on the culture.

All Christian morality is effectively illegal. Get married, pay a marriage tax. Don't rent a room in your house to an unmarried couple, pay a fine. Say you believe marriage is between a man and a woman, and even politicians will harass you. Where's this dominating impact that you speak of?

In movies and TV, the Christian is always the bad guy, the nut, or a liberal. Where's the dominating impact that you speak of?

Public education was started by Christians, but now they effectively teach Atheism. Where's the dominating impact that you speak of?

 

[cupid dave]

1) What arrogance, to announce that your "Theistic Evolution" is the FINAL step in the interpretation of Genesis!
Theistic Evolution is only the final step of a Christian, as a Christian, in his journey to Atheism.

2) Yes, Creationism is popularly ridiculed.
We live in a society that hates Christianity.
Creationism is incompatible with Atheism, so it cannot be tolerated.
But, because it makes no statements about values, it can't be blown off as "hate."

3) CD, the Resurrection is also ridiculed.

3) The reason the resurrection is ridiculed is because Christians have asked Jews and muslims to accept so many unsupportable other ideas that are explained in ways that defy realistic thinking.

That is not to say that things like Trinity are wrong, where muslim laugh that a preacher tries to explain how 3 is really one.
It is because the "explanation" is so full of holes.

1) The histrory of the Christian church(s) has been to make wild assumptions and wrong dogmas, coupled with the real arrogance of enforcing those ideas under the crime of heresy.

2) In other words, things like the resurrection and Trinity can be explained when the principles of the Scientific Method are applied beyond Genesis, and rational factually supported explanations are used to gather people back into the empty churches of this Age.


4) My reasoning that concludes with the claim that Theistic Evolution will become the only interpretation of Genesis offered by any Church is based on the clear qrgument for what is written in that book as being supportable by the facts of Science.
Once Science is seen as supportive of the belief people have had for thousands of years, that Genesis is true, it will last forever as the interpretation because it marries Knowledge to Belief.

 

[Knotical]

Hmmm,...
The framework interpretation is held by many theistic evolutionists and some progressive creationists.

It attempts to reconcile the Science of today with Genesis by assuming the Evolution is correct and that we ought read Genesis in Frames of events rather than as a chronology.

It is essentially a sub-division of Theistic Evolution.
It assumes that Science and Genesis are both right, but that they must be understood on different levels of discussion.
This may be true, but it does not item by item show that Genesis says the same things as science.

It is a start, it is a beginning for the reader to entertain a comopatibilitty with Science.
It is an admission to the science into Genesis as areasonable consideration for bible believers.

So, then it can be dismissed as false.

 

[cupid dave]

So, then it can be dismissed as false.

Every Theological Theory of the Bible can and has been dismissed.
The iunterpetatiuons handed daown have only been theories or ideas that theologians argued for as the correct meaning for scripture.

That the churches, even Judaism and Islam, are all splinter up into sub-division attests to this.

But the compatibility of scientific Theories with theological theories found in Theistic volution have a support in facts to bouy the interpretation up, whereas these other sketchy attempts at a general comaptibility is very weak.

 

[The Unbeliever]

There are so many pessimistic people here that its scary.

You should check the paper I linked to earlier. It has an interesting analysis on the phenomena: Bad News about the Good News

 

[Free]

Just a reminder that this is the Science forum.

 

[cupid dave]

Just a reminder that this is the Science forum.

Yep...
Science AND religion Forum.

The evolution of Judaism which itself is now subdivided into seven different "denominations," morphed into Christinity in 32AD.

That evolution Theology splintered into a dozen major mainstream denominational Christian Churchs, seven Eangelical Christian organizations, and a triade of Asian Moonies, Muslims, and then a large group of sects and/or small and diverse cults.

This pattern to the evolution of montheism was predictable by Urim and Thummim, which is a concrete expression of the pattern to the way humans think.
The diversity in the present religious establishment is a demonstration of how this U/T can be applied:


This present day State-of-the-Institution-of-Religion was preceeded by the Revelation which foretold the same unfolding prior to the Renaissance of the seven headed beast at the end of the Millennium Universal Christianity over all the Roman World:

THE SEVEN STAGES:

THE TWELVE CHRISTIAN CHURCHES:


Rev. 7:1 And after these things I saw (in 382 AD), four angels, (The Gospels), and standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds (of the four Social Groups) of the earth, that the wind (of Christianity) should not blow on the earth, (upon the present social order), nor on the sea (of the waters of Social Group-mentality of the nations, tribes, and peoples), nor on any tree (rooted in Social Institutions).

Rev. 7:2 And I saw another angel, (in 382 AD), ascending from the east, (i.e.; Athanasius, the father of the New Testament canon), having (the Cross), the seal of the living God, (Trinity, saying Father, Son, and Holy Ghost:[Rev 3:12]); and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, (Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John whose books had been canonized in 382 AD), to whom it was given to hurt the earth (the established Roman social order), and the sea (of the waters of the social group-mentalities of the nations, tribes, and peoples of the whole Western World),

Rev. 7:3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, (the social order), neither the sea (of the waters of the four Social-Groups, the group mentalities within the nations, tribes, and peoples) nor the trees (rooted in the Roman pagan Social Institutions), til we have sealed, (by Law in Universal Christianity on November 24, 380AD), the (undefiled, virgin monks), servants of (Truth: [John 14:6]), our God, (Trinity, saying Father, Son, and Holy Ghost: [Rev 3:12), in (touching ashes upon) their foreheads, (then chest, to the left and right): [Matt. 23:5]


Rev. 7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed, (as in the first universal church of 325AD): and there were sealed (with the ashes upon their foreheads) an hundred and forty and four thousand (144,000) of all the tribes of the (twelve Mainstream Christian Denominations of the true) children of Israel, (Rev 3:9).


Rev. 7:5 Of the tribe of Judah, (the early Christian Ebionites), were sealed twelve thousand.
Of the tribe of Reuben, (the early Christian_Arianians), were sealed twelve thousand.
Of the tribe of Gad, (the early Christian Montanism), were sealed twelve thousand.

Rev. 7:6 Of the tribe of Asher, (the early Christian Anomians), were sealed twelve thousand.
Of the tribe of Nepthalim, (the early Christian Gnostics), were sealed twelve thousand.
Of the tribe of Manasses, (the early Christian Adoptionism of Modalism), were sealed twelve thousand.

Rev. 7:7 Of the tribe of Simeon, (the early Christian Adoptionism of Dynamic Monarchianism)), were sealed twelve thousand.
Of the tribe of Levi, (the early Christian Semi-Arianian Macedonianism), were sealed twelve thousand.
Of the tribe of Issacharwere sealed twelve thousand, (the early Christian Patripassianism-modalists),

Rev. 7:8 Of the tribe of Zabulon, (the early Christian Melchisedechian-Monarchians), were sealed twelve thousand.
Of the tribe of Joseph, (the early Christian Monasticism) were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin, (the early Christian Marcionism), were sealed twelve thousand.

Rev. 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude (throughout the entire Roman world), which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;



THE THREE MONOTHEISMS:

Judaism, Christianity, Islam.

 

[Free]

Yep...
Science AND religion Forum.

This is not the forum to discuss religions in and of themselves. This forum is for how science and Christianity relate, as in creation and evolution. If you want to discuss theological differences between religions or how a religion has changed, there are other forums for that.

 

[cupid dave]

This is not the forum to discuss religions in and of themselves. This forum is for how science and Christianity relate, as in creation and evolution. If you want to discuss theological differences between religions or how a religion has changed, there are other forums for that.

I believe you have a point there, especially the "in and of themselves" comment.

Subjects like "Atheists, religion, and God," or "Where Does the Intelligence Come From?"
(Started by Yah1)‎, do not even mention evolution.
Perhaps if we want to keep this section exclusively for themes where evolution is the issue under discussion we ought consider re-titling the Science and Religion designation?


Nevertheless, I appeal to your resistance to the ever growing disdain for my point of view, (probably in favor of the very archaic and growing obsolescence of a more Middle Age, traditional private interpretation of scripture).
I remind you that Truth is in our midst when we gather honestly together in commentary.

In this thread I was demonstrating Social Evolution in present mankind, as the Institution of Religion can be seen to evolve and change the fabric of society.
In this thread I am demonstrating that they are observing Social Darwinism, the very people of the Church who are those who oppose the synthesis of Evolution and Genesis on the grounds ToE doesn't exist.