The Gospel continues to be misunderstood

[Randy]

Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin. (James 4:17)

Strain out that gnat. You've called all the saints sinners even though they keep the commandments. The only being that is 100 percent always GOOD is God. The rest will work towards that perfection. The one who is born of the Spirit has overcome the world and will not continue to sin. The ones who hold to the testimony of Jesus and obey Gods commandments.

More context.
All such boasting is evil. 17 If anyone, then, knows the good they ought to do and doesn’t do it, it is sin for them.

 

[for_his_glory]

1 Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

See, here's the thing. even though we are in Christ and Christ in us by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit as salvation comes by God's grace through faith what is spirit is spirit and what is flesh is flesh as we are yet corruptable in the flesh which we are housed in and has not been made incorruptible yet. We are still mortal and we are still prone to sin. We are instructed to walk in the Spirit and to guard our self from fleshly desires which is what sin is. We will mess up at times and God knows we will and always forgives a humbled heart, but if we are deliberately sinning knowing full well we are then there is no more sacrifice for that sin as we put Jesus sacrifice to shame and will pay the consequences here on earth for that sin as to what it will bring against us.

Bottom line, none of us are perfect yet, but are being perfected daily.

 

[Nathan12]

As it is, you boast in your arrogant schemes.

It isn't me who has been boasting about anything. It is you trying to push the idea of sinless perfection, instead of simply recognizing the truth. And I have certainly not called saints "sinners". I have simply pointed out the fact that all saints will sin at some time. They still remain saints by God's grace.

 

[Randy]

It isn't me who has been boasting about anything. It is you trying to push the idea of sinless perfection, instead of simply recognizing the truth. And I have certainly not called saints "sinners" I have simply pointed out the fact that all saints will sin at some time.. They still remain saints by God's grace.

The saints obey Gods commandments. They do not continue to sin. So you state every good thing in the world I see but don't always do makes me and other saints sinners then I disagree with you and in that always Good state only God is perfect.

REV 14:2
Here is a call for the endurance of the saints, those who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.
REV 12:17
Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring--those who keep God's commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus.


Again you wrote: I have simply pointed out the fact that all saints will sin at some time.

And again I ask which commandment do you speak of?

 

[Boaz]

Even though the Gospel is quite simple, it continues to be misunderstood and or misrepresented. Many people are not sure to this day whether salvation is by grace through faith in Christ and His finished work of redemption, or whether baptism is necessary for salvation, or perhaps other good works, or the sacraments, are necessary for salvation. Then there are some who claim that God arbitrarily elects some for salvation, and others for damnation (which would be a violation of the character of God as well as a travesty of the Gospel). Therefore we need to be clear from Scripture are to what exactly is the Gospel, and how God saves sinners purely by His grace.

1. Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners: This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. (1 Tim 1:15)

2. God sent His Son into the world so that the whole world of humanity would be saved: For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. (John 3:17)

3. Sinners are saved by believing on the Lord Jesus Christ and calling upon the Name of the Lord: And [he] brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house... [no mention of baptism at this point, but baptism must follow immediately, as seen in the next few verses]

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. (Acts 16:30,31; Rom 10:9-13).

4. The Gospel is the Good News that Christ died for our sins and rose again for our justification: Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the Gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures... And therefore it was imputed to him [Abraham] for righteousness. Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him; But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification. (1 Cor 15:1-4; Rom 4:22-25)

5. We are saved (justified) by grace through faith in Christ alone, and His finished work of redemption, not by works of righteousness which we have done: Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God... For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. (Rom 5:1,2; Eph 2:8,9)

5. Repentance is necessary for the remission of sins and for salvation: And [Christ] said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem... Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost... Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord... And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent (Lk 24:46,47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 17:30).

Just a quick correction on the that some say God arbitrarily chooses some salvation. Obviously I an adherent of Reformed Theology so I know what I am talking about and need to set straight the fallacy of this statement. I am not arguing for against this belief system. But there are a lot of misstatements made about what we believe that need to be clarified. We NEVER EVER believe or say that anything about God is arbitrary!! We do believe that the Bible teaches that God does the saving, that salvation is 100 percent from God and since some are not saved He must not extend the new birth to all. His reason and purpose are contained completely within Himself and have nothing to do with the person, whether he is good or bad. And "who is man that He should talk back to God?" And though we do not know His reason or purpose in His choices that does NOT MAKE THEM ARBITRARY. Again not a comment on freewill vs. "Calvinism".

 

[Boaz]

To all those who think that all the laws have been fulfilled in Christ you are very wrong as below are the laws that are written upon our heart and can only be fulfilled when Christ returns and makes an end to sin by throwing it into the lake of fire with that of the beast and the false prophets. The only laws that Christ has fulfilled so far are that of the Temple and its sacrifices. Someone please show me in scripture where Jesus has fulfilled all the laws, because in Matthew 22:35-40 and Matthew 5:17, 18 Jesus does not say that he has already fulfilled all of them, but that love was the greatest of them all.

There are laws (commandments) of God that were especially written just for the Hebrews pertaining to the rituals of the Temple, sacrifices, festivals, Torah, Kohanim and Levites, the King and the Nazarite. Then there are the existing moral laws (commandments) for all of us to still follow as in prayers and blessings, love and brotherhood. The poor and unfortunate, treatment of the Gentiles, Marriage, divorce and family. Forbidden sexual relations, business practices, employees and servants. Vows, oaths, swearing, Court and Judicial procedures. Injuries and damages, property and property rights, criminal laws. Prophecy, idolatry and all its practices as the moral laws (commandments) keep us in line with the will of God.

Jesus fulfilled all the Law Himself. But He did not abolish the Law. The Law would have saved us if anyone were able to KEEP it perfectly, which no one can who has Adam's seed (all of us). So it acts as our judge. It was necessary for Jesus to keep the law perfectly as Son of Man in order for His death, the death of a sinner, to be the perfect sacrifice. HIS righteousness is imputed to believers. That does not make all that we do while we are here righteous, we will still sin. It is that the righteousness of Christ forgives that sin. God views believers through the lens of Christ so to speak, and preserves us for the fullness of our salvation , when we are with Him. Non believers are still judged by the law.
And though believers are no longer under the law and held captive by it, the law still exists and is active. Parts of the OT traditions I.e the sacrifices, and celebrations festivals etc are abolished because what they pointed to has come, Jesus. Those things are separate from the Law which is summarized in the Ten Commandments. All these things are stated in Romans.

 

[for_his_glory]

We do believe that the Bible teaches that God does the saving, that salvation is 100 percent from God and since some are not saved He must not extend the new birth to all. His reason and purpose are contained completely within Himself and have nothing to do with the person, whether he is good or bad.

By God's grace He does extend the Spiritual rebirth to all who will believe and confess Jesus as Lord and Savior. Whether we are good or bad people we are yet all sinners for that is the nature of our flesh. It's only through the Spiritual rebirth from above where God sits on His throne that we have become a new Spiritual creation in Christ and indwelled with the Holy Spirit upon confession of our belief and faith that is in Christ Jesus.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

 

[Boaz]

By God's grace He does extend the Spiritual rebirth to all who will believe and confess Jesus as Lord and Savior. Whether we are good or bad people we are yet all sinners for that is the nature of our flesh. It's only through the Spiritual rebirth from above where God sits on His throne that we have become a new Spiritual creation in Christ and indwelled with the Holy Spirit upon confession of our belief and faith that is in Christ Jesus.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

I agree. The spot where we disagree is only how that rebirth occurs. Which is a mute point really except in the hearts and minds of the individual. A point of view. It still remains that even if God regenerates (the new birth) a person and THEN He confesses Christ, or he confesses Christ and is then reborn the end result is the same. Salvation. Even us crazy reformationists ( ha,ha) believe that the Gospel and salvation are for everybody. And we all agree for the most part, that not all are saved. We differ on what makes the difference but again the end result is the same.

It doesn't bother me that some disagree with me. What bothers me is when erroneous statements are made about WHAT I believe, from people who don't know and don't want to learn which is why I responded to the accusation of God arbitrarily choosing. AS IF!!! It was not you who made statement so we are good.

 

[for_his_glory]

Jesus fulfilled all the Law Himself. But He did not abolish the Law. The Law would have saved us if anyone were able to KEEP it perfectly, which no one can who has Adam's seed (all of us). So it acts as our judge. It was necessary for Jesus to keep the law perfectly as Son of Man in order for His death, the death of a sinner, to be the perfect sacrifice. HIS righteousness is imputed to believers. That does not make all that we do while we are here righteous, we will still sin. It is that the righteousness of Christ forgives that sin. God views believers through the lens of Christ so to speak, and preserves us for the fullness of our salvation , when we are with Him. Non believers are still judged by the law.
And though believers are no longer under the law and held captive by it, the law still exists and is active. Parts of the OT traditions I.e the sacrifices, and celebrations festivals etc are abolished because what they pointed to has come, Jesus. Those things are separate from the Law which is summarized in the Ten Commandments. All these things are stated in Romans.

All 613 laws have not yet been fulfilled as Christ has not returned as of yet. Christ has only fulfilled (abolished) the sacrificial laws with His death on the cross as the veil of the Temple was torn from top to bottom as we still have the moral laws that all tie into the greatest commandment of love, Matthew 22:35-40; 27:50, 51; Hebrews 9. I explained that in post #17 so I will not repeat that again. I don't know why people separate the ten commandments from the 613 laws God gave through Moses.

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

We are still under the moral parts of the law as the veil of the Temple was torn from top to bottom as Jesus only fulfilled the sacrificial parts of the laws through His life, death and resurrection. All the law will be fulfilled when Christ returns.

 

[for_his_glory]

I agree. The spot where we disagree is only how that rebirth occurs. Which is a mute point really except in the hearts and minds of the individual. A point of view. It still remains that even if God regenerates (the new birth) a person and THEN He confesses Christ, or he confesses Christ and is then reborn the end result is the same. Salvation. Even us crazy reformationists ( ha,ha) believe that the Gospel and salvation are for everybody. And we all agree for the most part, that not all are saved. We differ on what makes the difference but again the end result is the same.

It doesn't bother me that some disagree with me. What bothers me is when erroneous statements are made about WHAT I believe, from people who don't know and don't want to learn which is why I responded to the accusation of God arbitrarily choosing. AS IF!!! It was not you who made statement so we are good.

The important thing is that we confess Christ as Lord and Savior by which is the whole meaning of being Spiritually born again. Confession has to be made first unto belief as God then regenerates us and we receive the indwelling Holy Spirit. Not all will be saved because many refuse to confess Jesus as Lord and Savior or they only give lip service to the Lord as they walk unto their own lust of the flesh and worldly ways.

 

[Boaz]

All 613 laws have not yet been fulfilled as Christ has not returned as of yet. Christ has only fulfilled (abolished) the sacrificial laws with His death on the cross as the veil of the Temple was torn from top to bottom as we still have the moral laws that all tie into the greatest commandment of love, Matthew 22:35-40; 27:50, 51; Hebrews 9. I explained that in post #17 so I will not repeat that again. I don't know why people separate the ten commandments from the 613 laws God gave through Moses.

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

We are still under the moral parts of the law as the veil of the Temple was torn from top to bottom as Jesus only fulfilled the sacrificial parts of the laws through His life, death and resurrection. All the law will be fulfilled when Christ returns.

I don't know what all 613 laws are so can't comment on whether Jesus fulfilled them yet. The ten commandments in my view are a summary or outline of what obedience entails and as Jesus said, that includes not only the letter but the spirit of the law. He fulfilled all righteousness, sinlessness (made up word) so His complete righteousness was acceptable for His sacrificial death in the place of believers. A propitiation, satisfying the wrath of God against us. That did not abolish any of the law but set believers free from its bonds. We are to obey God but our sinless perfection is not required. We go to God through Jesus and His righteousness, robed in salvation, covered by His blood, and the sacrifice of His body.

 

[for_his_glory]

I don't know what all 613 laws are so can't comment on whether Jesus fulfilled them yet. The ten commandments in my view are a summary or outline of what obedience entails and as Jesus said, that includes not only the letter but the spirit of the law. He fulfilled all righteousness, sinlessness (made up word) so His complete righteousness was acceptable for His sacrificial death in the place of believers. A propitiation, satisfying the wrath of God against us. That did not abolish any of the law but set believers free from its bonds. We are to obey God but our sinless perfection is not required. We go to God through Jesus and His righteousness, robed in salvation, covered by His blood, and the sacrifice of His body.

If you want to read all 613 laws, which the ten commandments are a part of, here is a good site I like to Study from as I think all Christians should read them before commenting on them.
www.jewfag.org - Judaism 101


It doesn't matter what any kind of religious theology is out there as there are many different ones, but what does matter is that of what has already been written. Other than searching Biblical history and cultures of those eras all I research are the scriptures found in the Bible as I draw on nothing else as there is nothing else.

Yep, you and I are good even if we disagree we are still sisters in Christ

 

[stovebolts]

Hi for_his_glory and Reformed05

Here are a few thoughts of my own, if I may.


Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Matthew was writing to a Jewish audience, and they had their own terminology. Matthew 5 starts Jesus introduction to His teaching of the law. In Jewish thought, one not only had to correctly understand the law, but they also had to correctly live it out.

In regard to proper interpretation, if one completely misinterpreted the commandment, it was said that he "abolished / destroyed" the law. Because he would also mid the mark with his actions. Yes, it is a doing away with the law, but not in a good way as we Christians want to view it.

On the other hand, if one properly interpreted the law, they could properly live it out. This is called fulfilling the law. What the original audience heard Jesus basically saying is this. "I know the law and I am getting ready to teach you it's proper interpretation and application. Some will say I've missed the mark, but that's not so because every part of the law will fall into my teachings."

The other part I wanted to touch on is the idea of covenant.

As we know, there were 613 laws in the Sinai covenant. Within these 613 we mostly look to the top 10 that we are familiar with. Yes, the law was there to convict. It was never meant to save by keeping it to the letter. It's purpose was to show the way to God and His mercy, grace and righteousness.

This covenant was one entered into by agreement and Sinai is viewed as a marriage between God and His people. Within this covenant, both parties willingly enter into said covenant.

So what about the gentiles? They are not bound to the 613 laws ( including the big 10). Instead, they are bound to 8 which came out of the flood. If you recall, God set a rainbow in the sky as an affirmation to His covenant with creation. It is a universal covenant and everyone is part of it.

With Christ, the Sinai covenant is no longer valid and instead, we can willfully enter into the new covenant in His blood.

 

[Hermit]

On the topic title:
Less and less people have reason to seek the truth.
More and more people believe that they don't have to seek the truth (anymore).

 

[Boaz]

On the topic title:
Less and less people have reason to seek the truth.
More and more people believe that they don't have to seek the truth (anymore).

What you say is true but I'm asking is there a difference between a Christian and a born again Christian.

 

[Hermit]

What you say is true but I'm asking is there a difference between a Christian and a born again Christian.

https://christianforums.net/Fellowship/index.php?threads/born-again-or-not.80258/post-1527743

 

[TonyFaithAlone]

The saints obey Gods commandments. They do not continue to sin. So you state every good thing in the world I see but don't always do makes me and other saints sinners then I disagree with you and in that always Good state only God is perfect.

REV 14:2
Here is a call for the endurance of the saints, those who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.
REV 12:17
Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring--those who keep God's commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus.

Again you wrote: I have simply pointed out the fact that all saints will sin at some time.

And again I ask which commandment do you speak of?

If you never sinned again in this life than God would've taken you up to heaven like he did with Enoch. What are you still doing here?

Wisdom said, 'there are no righteous people on earth that are always doing right and never sins'. The apostle Paul himself said he is not perfect yet and he is working toward perfection even though he got caught up to heaven and came down.

Believing that you are perfect in the sight of God when God has only placed his seal of approval on Jesus of Nazareth in this age of grace is blasphemous to say the least. Saul of Tarsus tried that thought, he quickly got knocked off of his 'high-horse' on the Dalmascus road.

 

[for_his_glory]

Hi for_his_glory and Reformed05

Here are a few thoughts of my own, if I may.


Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Matthew was writing to a Jewish audience, and they had their own terminology. Matthew 5 starts Jesus introduction to His teaching of the law. In Jewish thought, one not only had to correctly understand the law, but they also had to correctly live it out.

In regard to proper interpretation, if one completely misinterpreted the commandment, it was said that he "abolished / destroyed" the law. Because he would also mid the mark with his actions. Yes, it is a doing away with the law, but not in a good way as we Christians want to view it.

On the other hand, if one properly interpreted the law, they could properly live it out. This is called fulfilling the law. What the original audience heard Jesus basically saying is this. "I know the law and I am getting ready to teach you it's proper interpretation and application. Some will say I've missed the mark, but that's not so because every part of the law will fall into my teachings."

The other part I wanted to touch on is the idea of covenant.

As we know, there were 613 laws in the Sinai covenant. Within these 613 we mostly look to the top 10 that we are familiar with. Yes, the law was there to convict. It was never meant to save by keeping it to the letter. It's purpose was to show the way to God and His mercy, grace and righteousness.

This covenant was one entered into by agreement and Sinai is viewed as a marriage between God and His people. Within this covenant, both parties willingly enter into said covenant.

So what about the gentiles? They are not bound to the 613 laws ( including the big 10). Instead, they are bound to 8 which came out of the flood. If you recall, God set a rainbow in the sky as an affirmation to His covenant with creation. It is a universal covenant and everyone is part of it.

I can agree with this as all we have to do is look back to the Noahic Commandments to see that of the moral laws that still exist today within that of the 613 laws are the original six commandments and the ten Mt Sinai commandments that both Jew and Gentile are to follow until Christ fulfills everything when He returns.

www.jewfaq.org

Noahic (Noah) Commandments are seven commandments first given to Adam by God before the flood and brought to remembrance by God to Noah after the flood, which are binding on both Jew and Gentile as there were no Jew or Gentile in the days of Noah. Abraham was the first one to be called a Hebrew, Genesis 14:13. The seven make up the first parts of the ten that God gave to Moses on Mt Sinai in Exodus 20. Below is a comparison list of the seven and the full ten which are all a part of the 613 laws given to Moses as some were for the Hebrews pertaining to the rituals of the Temple, sacrifices, festivals, Torah, Kohanim and Levites, the King and the Nazarite and then there are the existing moral laws (commandments) for all, Jew and Gentile to follow. Christ did not come to destroy all the laws, but to fulfill the parts of the Temple and sacrifices, Matthew 5:17-22.

Noahic Laws:
Not to worship idols.
Not to curse God.
To establish courts of justice.
Not to commit murder.
Not to commit adultery or sexual immorality.
Not to steal.
Not to eat flesh torn from a living animal.

Mt. Sinai Laws:
You shall have no other gods before Me.
You shall not make idols.
You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Honor your father and your mother.
You shall not murder.
You shall not commit adultery.
You shall not steal.
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
You shall not covet.


Part of the ten laws broken down to various commands within one law:
Other gods and idols are as one not to worship, but broke down into two commands
Remember the Sabbath was added to the ten commandments by God as a remembrance of all God did in six days (Gods timing) and rested on the seventh, Genesis 2:1-3; Matthew 12:1-13
To establish courts of justice was only given to Noah for the new generations to come after the flood
Honor your father and mother was not given to Noah, but was added to the ten commandments by God as the generations grew
Not to covet was added to the ten commandments by God, but broke down into seven commands as your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's.

 

[Randy]

If you never sinned again in this life than God would've taken you up to heaven like he did with Enoch. What are you still doing here?

Wisdom said, 'there are no righteous people on earth that are always doing right and never sins'. The apostle Paul himself said he is not perfect yet and he is working toward perfection even though he got caught up to heaven and came down.

Believing that you are perfect in the sight of God when God has only placed his seal of approval on Jesus of Nazareth in this age of grace is blasphemous to say the least. Saul of Tarsus tried that thought, he quickly got knocked off of his 'high-horse' on the Dalmascus road.

So Enoch was without sin?
Using your own logic you don't love Jesus because He stated if you love Him you will keep His commands.
You also never belonged to Him
For the Spirit is given to those that keep Gods commands.
If you love me, you will keep my commandments.
And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper,to be with you forever, even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you.

It comes down to how you define sin.
These commands I keep
You know the commandments: 'You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, you shall not defraud, honor your father and mother.'"
As well as abstaining from sexual immorality.

But to love as God loves always as in 100 percent of my life I am not perfect. Only God is good. In that context I am working towards perfection.

 

[stovebolts]

I can agree with this as all we have to do is look back to the Noahic Commandments to see that of the moral laws that still exist today within that of the 613 laws are the original six commandments and the ten Mt Sinai commandments that both Jew and Gentile are to follow until Christ fulfills everything when He returns.

www.jewfaq.org

Noahic (Noah) Commandments are seven commandments first given to Adam by God before the flood and brought to remembrance by God to Noah after the flood, which are binding on both Jew and Gentile as there were no Jew or Gentile in the days of Noah. Abraham was the first one to be called a Hebrew, Genesis 14:13. The seven make up the first parts of the ten that God gave to Moses on Mt Sinai in Exodus 20. Below is a comparison list of the seven and the full ten which are all a part of the 613 laws given to Moses as some were for the Hebrews pertaining to the rituals of the Temple, sacrifices, festivals, Torah, Kohanim and Levites, the King and the Nazarite and then there are the existing moral laws (commandments) for all, Jew and Gentile to follow. Christ did not come to destroy all the laws, but to fulfill the parts of the Temple and sacrifices, Matthew 5:17-22.

Noahic Laws:
Not to worship idols.
Not to curse God.
To establish courts of justice.
Not to commit murder.
Not to commit adultery or sexual immorality.
Not to steal.
Not to eat flesh torn from a living animal.

Mt. Sinai Laws:
You shall have no other gods before Me.
You shall not make idols.
You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Honor your father and your mother.
You shall not murder.
You shall not commit adultery.
You shall not steal.
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
You shall not covet.


Part of the ten laws broken down to various commands within one law:
Other gods and idols are as one not to worship, but broke down into two commands
Remember the Sabbath was added to the ten commandments by God as a remembrance of all God did in six days (Gods timing) and rested on the seventh, Genesis 2:1-3; Matthew 12:1-13
To establish courts of justice was only given to Noah for the new generations to come after the flood
Honor your father and mother was not given to Noah, but was added to the ten commandments by God as the generations grew
Not to covet was added to the ten commandments by God, but broke down into seven commands as your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's.

That was a really good comparison.
Ya know, I've had 8 stuck in my head for years. I know there are only 7, and I've made that mistake repeatedly.

Thanks for your grace!