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The Lord shows Abraham the future...

Eventide

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Spiritual wickedness in high places...

I'm actually glad that the simple truth of the scriptures bothers you... perhaps there is hope still.. that's not my call. I will gladly speak of the scoffers as they are described in the living and powerful word of God because many need to be reminded of the constant struggle against spiritual wickedness in high places.. against the rulers of the darkness of this world.. and to remind them to put on the full armour of God so that they CAN STAND against the wiles of the devil..

The devil's greatest asset right here and right now is that many don't actually believe that he IS the god of this present evil world.. whom the LORD shall destroy by the brightness of His coming.

This is exemplified in the simple story of the OP. The Lord was going to show Abraham the future and inevitably he had to drive away the fowls of the air.
 

Eventide

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Profane babblings..

As for conversation.. what should a believer in God's word say to those who say that the resurrection is past already..?

Exactly what the word of God says..

To shun profane babbling as it leads to more and more ungodliness.. and to reject a hereitc after they're shown the simple truth of the word of God and yet continue to reject the love of the truth..

The worst place that the body of Christ can be in these situations is INDIFFERENT.. iow, to care less about lies of the deceiver being brought into the body of Christ.. any Christian who loves the LORD and His TRUTH will (or should) hate every false way.. especially those whose words eat as does a cancer..

Most of us know the sickening truth about cancer within the body.. some of us may have even experienced this awful disease.. and this is how false teaching like we have today should be dealt with within the body of Christ.

Otherwise it's simply a matter of time..
 

Eventide

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The full armour of GOD..

It also should be of no surprise to the faithful Christian who embraces the promises of God in our Lord Jesus Christ, that there ARE going to be scoffers who deny the promise of His coming.. and who will say that all things continue as they were since the fathers fell asleep.. or that the resurrection is past already..

The WORD OF GOD tells us these things.. point blank even..

These things affirm the word of God.. and simply show us that the LORD knows what He is saying to the body of Christ.. in a living and powerful, miraculous way.

So we must NOT be negligent in putting on the armour of God so that we can stand against all his fiery darts.. because let's face the facts here folks.. they're here and they are going to continue to be fired right at the heart of the TRUTH.
 

Eventide

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Did you know there is more than one resurrection?:chin
Absolutely.. the word of God makes this perfectly clear does it not ?

But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.

This is the first resurrection.


Do you know the difference...?
 

Eventide

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Perhaps a more important question is WHEN does the resurrection of the dead actually happen...

The Apostle to the Gentiles makes this clear... just as the Lord makes it clear that this shall happen at the last day..
 

jasoncran

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eventide , cant post a defensable argument. if he actually read jewish stuff and were to converse with them. and then post this he would have problems. the jews and eventide believe that isreal will once again be that LIGHT until the Gentiles. the jews through the torah, with the moshiac in the third temple. the church of today nearly says the same.

Jesus is that light. He always was and always will be that light.
 

Eventide

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Some can't tell you what IS to come... Although they can tell you what IS NOT to come..

Anything but the simple truth..

For the life in me, I can't imagine why it's so difficult for people to see the things to come when they're written down for us.

Perhaps it's because they have railed on the truth for so long that now it's impossible for them to be corrected.

God knows..
 

jasoncran

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eventide.would you pray the mourner's kaddish for one year?I HAVE HAD a Jew unknowingly tell me that in order for isreal to be blessed the torah must be returned. this implies that jews will kill christians. if you believe matthew 24 for the future that is what is written. and not just isreal then.all over the world.

we are pagan to then. the trinity to them is a polythiestic God and an affront.if you think that repeating verses on the bible that supports your position is a defense then you are sadly mistaken. show me why God would return for isreal and restore isreal according the verses it used to support them and why a Gentile will be under the seven noahide laws? christianity doesnt teach that but the jews do. jews wont convert gentiles to the hebrew faith. they dont do that much today.

the noahide laws are used today to get gentiles to know about YHWH by jews.the pharisees wanted Jesus to restore the kingdom to them and so that they could be the LIGHT unto the gentiles. that isnt in the bible its in the sages before the time of christ and that is what the pharisees wanted. Jesus had other plans. this idea came from, i think, the first diaspora. the funny thing is the sages taught what the state of jewry would be like when jesus would show and that a prince would destroy the temple.

i quote rashi a respected jewish scholar after the fact.
daniel 9
27. And he will strengthen a covenant for the princes for one week, and half the week he will abolish sacrifice and meal- offering, and on high, among abominations, will be the dumb one, and until destruction and extermination befall the dumb one. כז. וְהִגְבִּיר בְּרִית לָרַבִּים שָׁבוּעַ אֶחָד וַחֲצִי הַשָּׁבוּעַ יַשְׁבִּית | זֶבַח וּמִנְחָה וְעַל כְּנַף שִׁקּוּצִים מְשֹׁמֵם וְעַד כָּלָה וְנֶחֱרָצָה תִּתַּךְ עַל שׁוֹמֵם:And he will strengthen a covenant for the princes for one week: לָרַבִּים, for the princes, like “and all the officers of (רַבֵּי) the king,” in the Book of Jeremiah (39:13). will strengthen: Titus [will strengthen] a covenant with the princes of Israel. for one week: He will promise them the strengthening of a covenant and peace for seven years, but within the seven years, he will abrogate his covenant. he will abolish sacrifice and meal-offering: This is what he says in the first vision (8:26): “and in tranquility he will destroy many.” Through a covenant of tranquility, he will destroy them. and on high, among abominations will be the dumb one: This is a pejorative for pagan deities. i.e., on a high place, among abominations and disgusting things, he will place the dumb one, the pagan deity, which is dumb like a silent stone. high: Heb. כְּנַף, lit. wing, an expression of height, like the wing of a flying bird. and until destruction and extermination befall the dumb one: and the ruling of the abomination will endure until the day that the destruction and extermination decreed upon it [will] befall it, in the days of the king Messiah. befall the dumb one: Heb. תִּתַּ, reach; and total destruction will descend upon the image of the pagan deity and upon its worshippers
even they saw ad 70 as that. rashi was alive centuries after ad 70 and look at what he saw.
http://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/16492/showrashi/true

i may not see that as he does but its interesting that most of ad 70 lines up with that.
 

reba

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Chapter and verse are noted so all may be read in context.

Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Joh_6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
Joh_6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Joh_6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Joh_6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
Joh_11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
Joh_12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

Jesus Christ is the Resurrection and the life. Yet He does not speak of a 1000 years between resurrections? John 5:28...I would ask also of those who know what is to come what comes after the last day?
 

jasoncran

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ooops again. yes i used to be just like eventide in this.
 

Eventide

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Jesus Christ is the Resurrection and the life. Yet He does not speak of a 1000 years between resurrections? John 5:28...I would ask also of those who know what is to come what comes after the last day?
The word of God most certainly does speak of a thousand years between the resurrections.. IMO that's undeniable... Unless you'd like to explain to us how you read Rev 20 in its context.

Every Christian should know what the last DAY is.. It's the Day of The Lord, the Day of Jesus Christ.. Which shall come was a thief in the night and as travail upon a woman with child.

Every Christian should also not be ignorant of this one thing.. that a Day with The Lord is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one DAY..

Although once again, and this is important IMO.. The same Apostle also speaks of being willfully ignorant of these things.. It's as if they were taught this once and now that they have left those beliefs behind..and considered them false, that they can't possibly be true..

Iow, the word of God is so clear on these matters that it could only be willful to ignore them..
 

jasoncran

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so when you came to christ eventide, you werent raised unto live from being dead unto sin?

that is the ressurection they speak off. im only amil because the church hasnt taught a defensable version of the millenium.

i shall use the oldest form of it, and its a bit different then today.

And Trypho to this replied, "I remarked to you sir, that you are very anxious to be safe in all respects, since you cling to the Scriptures. But tell me, do you really admit that this place, Jerusalem, shall be rebuilt; and do you expect your people to be gathered together, and made joyful with Christ and the patriarchs, and the prophets, both the men of our nation, and other proselytes who joined them before your Christ came? or have you given way, and admitted this in order to have the appearance of worsting us in the controversies?" Then I answered, "I am not so miserable a fellow, Trypho, as to say one thing and think another. I admitted to you formerly, that I and many others are of this opinion, and[believe] that such will take place, as you assuredly are aware; but, on the other hand, I signified to you that many who belong to the pure and pious faith, and are true Christians, think otherwise. Moreover, I pointed out to you that some who are called Christians, but are godless, impious heretics, teach doctrines that are in every way blasphemous, atheistical, and foolish. But that you may know that I do not say this before you alone, I shall draw up a statement, so far as I can, of all the arguments which have passed between us; in which I shall record myself as admitting the very same things which I admit to you. For I choose to follow not men or men's doctrines, but God and the doctrines[delivered] by Him. For if you have fallen in with some who are called Christians, but who do not admit this[truth], and venture to blaspheme the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob; who say there is no resurrection of the dead, and that their souls, when they die, are taken to heaven; do not imagine that they are Christians, even as one, if he would rightly consider it, would not admit that the Sadducees, or similar sects of Genist , Meristae,Gelilaeans, Hellenists, Pharisees, Baptists, are Jews(do not hear me impatiently when I tell you what I think), but are[only] called Jews and children of Abraham, worshipping God with the lips, as God Himself declared, but the heart was far from Him. But I and others, who are right-minded Christians on all points, are assured that there will be a resurrection of the dead, and a thousand years in Jerusalem, which will then be built, adorned, and enlarged, the prophets Ezekiel and Isaiah and others declare.
"For Isaiah spake thus concerning this space of a thousand years: 'For there shall be the new heaven and the new earth, and the former shall not be remembered, or come into their heart; but they shall find joy and gladness in it, which things I create. For, Behold, I make Jerusalem a rejoicing, and My people a joy; and I shall rejoice over Jerusalem, and be glad over My I people. And the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, or the voice of crying. And there shall be no more there a person of immature years, or an old man who shall not fulfil his days. For the young man shall be an hundred years old; but the sinner who dies an hundred years old, he shall be accursed. And they shall build houses, and shall themselves inhabit them; and they shall plant vines, and shall themselves eat the produce of them, and drink the wine. They shall not build, and others inhabit; they shall not plant, and others eat. For according to the days of the tree of life shall be the days of my people; the works of their toil shall abound. Mine elect shall not toil fruitlessly, or beget children to be cursed; for they shall be a seed righteous and blessed by the Lord, and their offspring with them. And it shall come to pass, that before they call I will hear; while they are still speaking, I shall say, What is it? Then shall the wolves and the lambs feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the ox; but the serpent[shall eat] earth as bread. They shall not hurt or maltreat each other on the holy mountain, i saith the Lord.' Now we have understood that the expression used among these words, 'According to the days of the tree[of life] shall be the days of my people; the works of their toil shall abound' obscurely predicts a thousand years. For as Adam was told that in the nay fie ate of the tree he would die, we know that he did not complete a thousand years. We have perceived, moreover, that the expression, 'The day of the Lord is as a thousand years,' is connected with this subject. And further, there was a certain man with us, whose name was John, one of the apostles of Christ, who prophesied, by a revelation that was made to him, that those who believed in our Christ would dwell a thousand years in Jerusalem; and that thereafter the general, and, in short, the eternal resurrection and judgment of all men would likewise take place. Just as our Lord also said, 'They shall neither marry nor be given in marriage, but shall be equal to the angels, the children of the God of the resurrection.'
he believes the ressurection is after the millenium. oops. make more sense.

of course he ignores those verses on the function of that temple. the law is mentioned.
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/justinmartyr-dialoguetrypho.html
 

Eventide

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Amillennialism is a perfect example of taking Rev 4-20 out of its context and applying it to the present.. The things which are... And yet there is no valid explanation of WHEN these staggering events took place.. And let's face it, it's patently absurd to stuff the things which shall be hereafter into 70 AD.
 

jasoncran

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Amillennialism is a perfect example of taking Rev 4-20 out of its context and applying it to the present.. The things which are... And yet there is no valid explanation of WHEN these staggering events took place.. And let's face it, it's patently absurd to stuff the things which shall be hereafter into 70 AD.
and the modern teaching of a millenium is equally staggering considering that god would allows jews who wanted him to save them from destruction and god says no. and then sends his son to come back to do just what the pharisees whom rejected him.

i understand why the early church bought it. old teachings die hard. the apostles werent told everything and im sure not all of the pharisetical things were gone but why do you believe that isreal shall be in the millenium doing the law.

the law that does these?
offering up of lambs and goats
excution of witches
and sinners

so when the seven churches heard the word soon over this they didnt know that it was soon?

revalation 11
And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
if i take your way that means they knew that it would be for a time measurement of when he would return rather then when he would judge isreal. god warned the church to flee isreal and here they have a clear message of the time frame

jews know this and its recording in my tanach. 66-73 c.e jewish-roman war. 70 ce tammuz 4 that oblations cease.

the third temple isnt holy for it its is then i can go there and offer sin offerings and NOT bother believing in jesus. he isnt needed.

how does one desicrate something that god says it profane and unholy?
 

Eventide

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Exchanging the truth of God for a lie...

IMO there's not a better edited than this.. stuffing the staggering events of the things which shall be hereafter into 70AD..
 
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Stormcrow

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IMO there's not a better example of willful ignorance than this
Jason is preaching the gospel Paul and the other apostles taught and yet you call his words "willful ignorance"???

That, IMHO, is how futurism has distorted and is destroying the preaching of the gospel. And that is why the church is losing ground to evil.

Beliefs have consequences. Futurist beliefs have dire consequences.
 
L

Lehigh3

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Re: Exchanging the truth of God for a lie...

IMO there's not a better example of willful ignorance than this.. stuffing the staggering events of the things which shall be hereafter into 70AD..
I disagree. I found peace about the book of Revelation by its first verses:
1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants—things which must shortly take place. And He sent and signified it by His angel to His servant John, 2 who bore witness to the word of God, and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, to all things that he saw. 3 Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written in it; for the time is near.
In fact, the same verse is at the end in chapter 22, so we know that whatever God signified through St. John then, is past tense.

We can now grow in the Faith through the Gospels and Epistles!
 

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