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The Lord shows Abraham the future...

loopy

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i meant also to say that one thing abraham saw for sure was the fulfilling of the promise that he would have an heir, and then there is this verse in john 8:56 "Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.†this verse might perhaps give us some insight to what was called "paradise" in israel during the old testament times for those awaiting the coming of their messiah after they died.
 

Sinthesis

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i meant also to say that one thing abraham saw for sure was the fulfilling of the promise that he would have an heir, and then there is this verse in john 8:56 "Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.” this verse might perhaps give us some insight to what was called "paradise" in israel during the old testament times for those awaiting the coming of their messiah after they died.
That's an interesting idea.
 
O

Osgiliath

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Originally posted by loopy,

after all i have been learning about the connection of the life of Christ being foreshadowed, prophesied in jewish festivals and customs, i cannot believe it isn't taught. after being in israel, i think it is crucial to my understanding God and the new testament! i also think if we did this, some of the debated issues would make sense, because we would stop reading or culture into the new testament, and we would understand its context.
I think that is a great idea for a new thread. (hint hint) :twocents
 

Eventide

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It's absolute insanity for the church of God to ignore its only foundation, and yet this is what IS going to happen in the days ahead.. Here's a simple example...

The teaching of the OT Prophets and the Apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ make it absolutely undeniable that the DAY of the LORD is a future event with respect to the things which shall be hereafter... And that in itself will eventually become the laugh of the Day.. While just about anything else you can imagine will fill in for the truth..

Ridiculous things... Like the end was in 70AD... That's when The Lord came with thousands of His saints in glory.. That's when the resurrection of the dead took place... And the marriage of the Lamb to His wife.. Etc etc etc..

That is a blatant denial of the Apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ who could not be more miraculously clear in their God given testimony concerning not only the things which are, but certainly the things which shall be hereafter as well.
 

jasoncran

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isreal, is indeed a shadow as is the entire torah of what God wants for men. if ya bother to read the torah and read up on jewry. you would see that.

the law is a shadow of things to come. that is eternal bliss and deliverance from sin, earth and man in perfection as according to GOD. who said that eventide?might i submit to you that im of isreal once again, and all my family that come to christ.

im not alone , we have the early church and the apostles and thousands that came to christ as well. yet what did paul say of his jewishness? he counted it DUNG!that is what the pharisee taught him and also where he placed his identity.
 

Eventide

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Who exchanged the truth of God for a lie...

And as mentioned... Just about anything one could imagine is going to be exchanged for the faith once delivered to the saints.

Anything but the simple truth that the Day of The Lord shall come... Exactly as it has been foretold in countless, living and powerful, miraculous ways.. since the foundation of the world.
 

jasoncran

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i will take that as you like most christians who havent asked nor reasearched jewry think that the Law of moses will return and that as jew I SIMPLY DONT NEED THE MESSIAH. in jewry they do teach that the messiah wont contradict the torah.hmm jesus did change the torah a lot.

yet the church sees fit to mix judaism's end times with christ's words. when Jesus didnt say that at all. i can show it easily.its almost the same.
 

Eventide

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Same straw man...

Israel is going to be saved in the time of the end exactly as the church of God is saved... By grace through faith.

That nation is going to be led to repentance by the goodness of God and in the end He shall reveal Himself to them... It's an absolute biblical certainty which for some reason so many willfully refuse to see... As we see that Day approaching... The Day of The Lord, the Day of Jesus Christ... Which shall come as a thief in the night and as travail upon a woman with child... At the revelation of Jesus Christ.
 

Eventide

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Now who might want to deceive Christians into thinking that THAT DAY has already come.. ?
 

jasoncran

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Same straw man...

Israel is going to be saved in the time of the end exactly as the church of God is saved... By grace through faith.

That nation is going to be led to repentance by the goodness of God and in the end He shall reveal Himself to them... It's an absolute biblical certainty which for some reason so many willfully refuse to see... As we see that Day approaching... The Day of The Lord, the Day of Jesus Christ... Which shall come as a thief in the night and as travail upon a woman with child... At the revelation of Jesus Christ.
then why would God need to remove a church to make another to do the same?

that make sense. LOOK I AM A JEW, AN NATION STATE of christians with tribes? where is that in the prophets? where does it say isreal will be doing communion? where does it say that isreal will do baptism? if it does then its not the state of isreal but the church. one faith, one hope, one baptism.

epic fail. i have stated that very case to you. that the church need to be removed to have an "isreal" in them. jews such as my self and the others are in the church. that isnt a strawman. that is what schofield taught orignally and was is taught in churches today.

2nthelight believes that the torah will return.

a levite in christ is very much a christian. that is what the 144k are for. to fulfill that promise.
 

Eventide

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Why don't you tell us what IS going to happen then...

Although you have already mentioned that you don't KNOW what is going to happen, you obviously only know what isn't going to happen..

Strange in itself isn't it.. No clue what is going to happen and a baseless defense against the simple truth of what is going to happen..

And no worries.. It is clearly expected to have anything but the truth in the time of the end.. And the truth itself will be the laugh of the day..

I can clearly see it coming :)
 

Eventide

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Here's another thing which shall be hereafter.. Its called the regeneration and it is written in the gospel of Matthew chapter 19..

Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?

And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.

But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first.


Simple biblical truth... Anyone care to refute this or explain in detail how that it does not speak of a future time... ?

Do we know when The Lord shall sit upon the throne of His glory..?

The same gospel of Matthew tells us precisely when The Lord shall sit upon the throne of His glory.. And that's when He comes in His glory.

Simple biblical truths.. Anyone wish to refute that and place these things in the past or the present ?

Then please do..
 

reba

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Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Heb_8:1 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;

Heb_10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

Heb_12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

1Pe_3:22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.
 

Stormcrow

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That nation is going to be led to repentance by the goodness of God and in the end He shall reveal Himself to them
He already did.
God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, in these last days has spoken to us [Hebrews] in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world. Hebrews 1:1-2 (NASB)

Like all futurists, you missed it by 2,000 years.
 

Eventide

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So what's your point Reba.. ?

Are you trying to say that the regeneration has already happened..? That the Lord has already come in His glory ?

IF that's what you're trying to say... then why not simply SAY IT.. ?

Is that your point here.. that this is already the regeneration ?
 

Eventide

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Matthew 19 is connected to Matthew 25 in that both of these chapters speak of the LORD sitting upon the throne of His glory.. Matthew 25 makes it absolutely clear that this shall be when the Lord comes in His glory.

This is not difficult imo... these are simple biblical connections.

And because of that simple biblical connection we also know that His Apostles shall also sit upon twelve thrones.. judging the twelve tribes of Israel.. WHEN He comes in that Day..

See how easy this is..
 

reba

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Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Heb_8:1 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;

Heb_10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

Heb_12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

1Pe_3:22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.
Sorry i forgot to highlite the tense
 

Eventide

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What's truly amazing imo is that many people know absolutely NOTHING with respect to the FUTURE and at the same time can't admit to a single thing in the scriptures which actually DOES pertain to the future..

The Spirit of God shows us things to come and yet many can't tell you a single thing that's coming.. what does that tell you ?

And then to reject the plain truth of scripture and deny something as simple as the Apostles telling us that THAT DAY shall come.. and for anyone to simply believe that now it's a joke..?

No doubt where this is coming from... from the last one in this world who would want anyone to believe that simple truth.
 
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Eventide

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Yes thanks Reba.. it's clear now... :) And of course we knew that already..

Reba evidently believes that the Lord has already come and IS now sitting upon the throne of His glory with His Apostles also sitting upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel... in the regeneration.

Anyone else ?
 

Eventide

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Another major problem within Christendom today imo... is that it seems to believe that it's beyond deception... that the body of Christ can't be deceived.. some will even tell you that Satan's long gone...

That in itself is massive deception.

The simple truth of the word of God is that Satan is the god of this present evil world.. the prince of the power of the air.. and that we wrestle against spiritual wickedness in high places.. and that he takes men captive at his will..

That's the simple truth...

It's being denied to no end, right here, right now..

and where might that deception be coming from..?
 

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