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The Pre Tribulation Rapture: Fact or Fiction?

Jason Borrego

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Millions of dollars are spent telling Christians that they will be caught up before the tribulation, but what does the bible tell us?
Let me start this by stating I believe that we will be caught up with Yahshua in clouds, but a pre-tribulation rapture is not scripturally sound. Is this a trick motivated by money by the true deceiver? Did he master mind a plan to weaken believers afraid to be forged by fire? Thousands of our brothers and sisters outside of America are being persecuted and murdered for their faith. I ask you with a humble heart, where lay their rapture?
Matthew 24:23-24. Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
I will step back and listen after posting a brief summary of the rapture.
•The event happens at THE LAST TRUMP (end of tribulation).
•The beast wears out the saints (How is this possible if we've been "raptured"?)
•The beast shall overcome the saints for a season (Again, how is this possible?)
•The dead in Christ rise first (this happens at the last trump - end of tribulation).
 

Eugene

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Hi Jason. I do believe in a pre-tribulation as well as mid tribulation raptures. You speak of suffering and that is one of the requirements pertinent to reigning with Christ. Romans 8:17, ". . joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together." and 2 Timothy 2:12 "If we suffer, we shall also reign with him:"

There are two classes in 1 Thessalonians 4:15 as a part of a complete rapture. "For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep."

There are two of the seven churches in Revelation Chapters Two and Three shown to have crowns; Philadelphia and Smyrna and Smyrna are those which sleep to be caught up first. Revelation 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

You mention the last trump and that would by necessity require prior trumps. My thoughts.
 

SlickPen50

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We should consider the fact that Rapture, pre trib or mid-trib, has NO historical path from the time of the closing of the New Testament up until modern times (Scoffield/Darby). That ought to be a huge issue in even discussing the matter. If we are so willing to toss other modern thinkers who come up with never-before-heard-of ideas about what the bible means, then we ought to give "the rapture" the same reception. Its easy believism...
 

Agape

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Millions of dollars are spent telling Christians that they will be caught up before the tribulation, but what does the bible tell us?

I. Historical Argument

1. The early church believed in the imminency of the Lord’s return, which is an essential doctrine of pretribulationism.
2. The detailed development of pretribulational truth during the past few centuries does not prove that the doctrine is new or novel. Its development is similar to that of other major doctrines in the history of the church.

II. Hermeneutics​
3. Pretribulationism is the only view which allows a literal interpretation of all Old and New Testament passages on the great tribulation.
4. Only pretribulationism distinguishes clearly between Israel and the church and their respective programs.


III. The Nature of the Tribulation​
5. Pretribulationism maintains the Scriptural distinction between the great tribulation and tribulation in general which precedes it.
6. The great tribulation is properly interpreted by pretribulationists as a time of preparation for Israel’s restoration (Deut. 4:29-30; Jer. 30:4-11). It is not the purpose of the tribulation to prepare the church for glory.
7. None of the Old Testament passages on the tribulation mention the church (Deut. 4:29-30; Jer. 30:4-11; Dan. 9:24-27; Dan. 12:1-2).
8. None of the New Testament passages on the tribulation mention the church (Matt. 24:15-31; 1 Thess. 1:9-10; 1 Thess. 5:4-9; Rev. 4—Rev. 19).
9. In contrast to midtribulationism, the pretribulational view provides an adequate explanation for the beginning of the great tribulation in Revelation 6. Midtribulationism is refuted by the plain teaching of Scripture that the great tribulation begins long before the seventh trumpet of Revelation 11.
10. The proper distinction is maintained between the prophetic trumpets of Scripture by pretribulationism. There is no proper ground for the pivotal argument of midtribulationism that the seventh trumpet of Revelation is the last trumpet in that there is no established connection between the seventh trumpet of Revelation 11, the last trumpet of 1 Corinthians 15:52, and the trumpet of Matthew 24:31. They are three distinct events.
11. The unity of Daniel’s seventieth week is maintained by pretribulationists. By contrast, midtribulationism destroys the unity of Daniel’s seventieth week and confuses Israel’s program with that of the church.

IV. The Nature of the Church​
12. The translation of the church is never mentioned in any passage dealing with the second coming of Christ after the tribulation.
13. The church is not appointed to wrath (Rom. 5:9; 1 Thess. 1:9-10; 1 Thess. 5:9). The church therefore cannot enter “the great day of their wrath” (Rev. 6:17).
14. The church will not be overtaken by the Day of the Lord (1 Thess. 5:1-9) which includes the tribulation.
15. The possibility of a believer escaping the tribulation is mentioned in Luke 21:36.
16. The church of Philadelphia was promised deliverance from “the hour of trial, that hour which is to come upon the whole world, to try them that dwell upon the earth” (Rev. 3:10).
17. It is characteristic of divine dealing to deliver believers before a divine judgment is inflicted upon the world as illustrated in the deliverance of Noah, Lot, Rahab, etc. (2 Pet. 2:6-9).
18. At the time of the translation of the church, all believers go to the Father’s house in heaven, and do not remain on the earth as taught by posttribulationists (John 14:3).
19. Pretribulationism does not divide the body of Christ at the rapture on a works principle. The teaching of a partial rapture is based on the false doctrine that the translation of the church is a reward for good works. It is rather a climactic aspect of salvation by grace.
20. The Scriptures clearly teach that all, not part, of the church will be raptured at the coming of Christ for the church (1 Cor. 15:51-52; 1 Thess. 4:17).
21. As opposed to a view of a partial rapture, pretribulationism is founded on the definite teaching of Scripture that the death of Christ frees from all condemnation.
22. The godly remnant of the tribulation are pictured as Israelites, not members of the church as maintained by the posttribulationists.
23. The pretribulational view as opposed to posttribulationism does not confuse general terms like elect and saints which apply to the saved of all ages with specific terms like the church and those in Christ which refer to believers of this age only.

V. The Doctrine of Imminency​
24. The pretribulational interpretation is the only view which teaches that the coming of Christ is actually imminent.
25. The exhortation to be comforted by the coming of the Lord (1 Thess. 4:18) is significant only in the pretribulational view, and is especially contradicted by posttribulationism.
26. The exhortation to look for “the glorious appearing” (Titus 2:13) loses its significance if the tribulation must intervene first. Believers in that case should look for signs.
27. The exhortation to purify ourselves in view of the Lord’s return has most significance if His coming is imminent (1 John 3:2-3).
28. The church is uniformly exhorted to look for the coming of the Lord, while believers in the tribulation are directed to look for signs.

VI. The Work of the Holy Spirit​
29. The Holy Spirit as the Restrainer of evil cannot be taken out of the world unless the church, which the Spirit indwells, is translated at the same time. The tribulation cannot begin until this restraint is lifted.
30. The Holy Spirit as the Restrainer must be taken out of the world before “the lawless one,” who dominates the tribulation period, can be revealed (2 Thess. 2:6-8).
31. If the expression, “except the falling away come first, be translated literally, “except the departure come first, it would plainly show the necessity of the rapture taking place before the beginning of the tribulation.


VII. The Necessity of an Interval between the Rapture and Second Coming​
32. According to 2 Corinthians 5:10, all believers of this age must appear before the judgment seat of Christ in heaven, an event never mentioned in the detailed accounts connected with the second coming of Christ to the earth.
33. If the twenty-four elders of Revelation 4:1—Revelation 5:14 are representative of the church, as many expositors believe, it would necessitate the rapture and reward of the church before the tribulation.
34. The marriage of Christ and the church must be celebrated in heaven before the second coming to the earth for the wedding feast (Rev. 19:7-10).
35. Tribulation saints are not translated at the second coming of Christ but carry on ordinary occupations such as farming and building houses, and shall bear children (Isa. 65:20-25). This would be impossible if all saints were translated at the second coming to the earth as posttribulationists teach.
36. The judgment of the Gentiles following the second coming (Matt. 25:31-46) indicates that both saved and unsaved are still in their natural bodies, which would be impossible if the translation had taken place at the second coming.
37. If the translation took place in connection with the second coming to the earth, there would be no need of separating the sheep from the goats at a subsequent judgment, but the separation would have taken place in the very act of the translation of the believers before Christ actually came to the earth.
38. The judgment of Israel (Ezek. 20:34-38) which occurs subsequent to the second coming indicates the necessity of regathering Israel. The separation of the saved from the unsaved in this judgment obviously takes place sometime after the second coming and would be unnecessary if a translation of the saved had taken place previously.

VIII. Contrasts between the Rapture and the Second Coming​
39. At the time of the rapture the saints meet Christ in the air, while at the second coming Christ returns to the Mount of Olives to meet the saints on earth.
40. At the time of the rapture the Mount of Olives is unchanged, while at the second coming it divides and a valley is formed to the east of Jerusalem (Zech. 14:4-5).
41. At the rapture living saints are translated, while no saints are translated in connection with the second coming of Christ to the earth.
42. At the rapture the saints go to heaven, while at the second coming to the earth the saints remain in the earth without translation.
43. At the time of the rapture the world is unjudged and continues in sin, while at the second coming the world is judged and righteousness is established in the earth.
44. The translation of the church is pictured as a deliverance before the day of wrath, while the second coming is followed by the deliverance of those who have believed in Christ during the tribulation.
45. The rapture is described as imminent, while the second coming is preceded by definite signs.
46. The translation of living believers is truth revealed only in the New Testament, while the second coming with its attendant events is a prominent doctrine of both Testaments.
47. The rapture concerns only the saved, while the second coming deals with both saved and unsaved.
48. At the rapture Satan is not bound, while at the second coming Satan is bound and cast into the abyss.
49. No unfulfilled prophecy stands between the church and the rapture, while many signs must be fulfilled before the second coming.
50. No passage dealing with the resurrection of saints at the second coming in either Testament ever mentions a translation of living saints at the same time.

Fifty Arguments for Pretribulationism by John F. Walvoord
http://chafer-cstn.org/BaseT/ESCHA/Rapture/PreTrib50Args.Walvoord.103A2A.htm
 
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JLB

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13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus. 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.1 But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. 2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. 3 For when they say, "Peace and safety!" then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. 4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief. 5 You are all sons of light and sons of the day. We are not of the night nor of darkness.


Paul teaches us some very important truth in these passages -


  • This passage of scripture portrays the saints coming with Jesus to earth at the resurrection and rapture, which is clearly the Second Coming of Christ. [even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.]
  • The Day of The Lord will not be as a thief in the night for Christians! [But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief.]
  • This is Last trumpet that signals the resurrection at the end of the age, as Paul also wrote to the Church at Corinth.
Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed-- in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.1 Corinthians 15:51-52 which is the same last Trumpet that Jesus taught us in Matthew 24 -

29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.


Anyone who studies God's word knows
the Day of The Lord is when Jesus returns at the end of the age to resurrect His people.



JLB
 

reba

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Anyone who studies God's word knows the Day of The Lord is
when Jesus returns at the end of the age to
resurrect His people.
Doesn't Jesus tell us a few times the resurrection is the last day . He does not use the term last day of the end of an age.
 

Eugene

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Doesn't Jesus tell us a few times the resurrection is the last day . He does not use the term last day of the end of an age.
Last day? and I was in hope of eternal life. :silly
 

reba

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[MENTION=90512]Eugene[/MENTION] we will no longer need days He is the Light right?
Rev_22:5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.
 

wonby1

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I really don't care either way, just so long as I'm with the Lord in the long run.

It does bother me, however, to know Christians who think that God would not let them go through a horrible thing like the Tribulation. This after all the disciples were martryed, save one, along with a whole slew of believers along with them.
 

farouk

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I really don't care either way, just so long as I'm with the Lord in the long run.

It does bother me, however, to know Christians who think that God would not let them go through a horrible thing like the Tribulation. This after all the disciples were martryed, save one, along with a whole slew of believers along with them.
wonby1:

Oh yes, the Lord does preserve His people.

Why would the church be the object of the Lord's wrath on earth, though?

Remember, there is a distinction between the tribulation principle ('In the world ye shall have tribulation, but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world' John 16.33) and the unique period of the great tribulation (Matthew 24.21).
 

Eugene

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[MENTION=90512]Eugene[/MENTION] we will no longer need days He is the Light right?
Rev_22:5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.
Not all bad; I'll think on this one. Like the words Like the lyrics by David Phelps?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ultJ4zoNMuY

No more night, no more pain
No more tears, never crying again
And praises to the great, "I AM"
We will live in the light of the risen Lamb
 

Allen Wynne

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Millions being spent to tell christians?
LOL!
How about millions being made!
 

jasoncran

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wonby1:

Oh yes, the Lord does preserve His people.

Why would the church be the object of the Lord's wrath on earth, though?

Remember, there is a distinction between the tribulation principle ('In the world ye shall have tribulation, but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world' John 16.33) and the unique period of the great tribulation (Matthew 24.21).
so when the gentiles in said trib repent and jews will these be exempt from that wrath and not part of the church then?must be a split body there for you guys. one in limbo in heaven and the other dying to believe and learn of the Creator. yet under the same commands by the Lord. that is to baptize and make disciples and have communion as ye oft. hmm no split body here. never mind that a different resurrection for them. they will die in that and when will they be raised?
 

farouk

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so when the gentiles in said trib repent and jews will these be exempt from that wrath and not part of the church then?must be a split body there for you guys. one in limbo in heaven and the other dying to believe and learn of the Creator. yet under the same commands by the Lord. that is to baptize and make disciples and have communion as ye oft. hmm no split body here. never mind that a different resurrection for them. they will die in that and when will they be raised?
....but who says that tribulation saints will have been converted already by the time of the Rapture?
 

jasoncran

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even its after per that doctrine and jews come to Christ. whose are these jews? Jesus or the YHWH? if they are in Christ they are of the church and it still a problem.
 
K

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Revelation Chapter 2
[8] And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;
[9] I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.
[10] Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.
[11] He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.
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Revelation Chapter 20
[4] And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
[5] But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
[6] Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

These two parts of Revelation are talking about the same people. Definately not getting raptured.

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4] And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
[5] Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.
[6] Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nepthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.
[7] Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.
[8] Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.
[9] After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
[10] And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

As you can see here in verse 9, an amount that no man could number. These are people additional to the 144,000 since the 144,000 were indeed exactly numbered.
Also you can see that these people aren't nicely tucked away on a loft pre-trib. They are out serving God. They also seem immune to tribulation human suffering.
Either way, they are still on earth thru tribulation.
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As you can see, some christians will have to go thru tribulation as a human with mortal frailties, and some christians will not. I read on a previous comment the questions was posed stating that why would God make christians go thru tribulation. I say, why do you question God? Surely we do not know better. Maybe the ones tortured and killed as mentioned about reign with Christ for the thousand years and are immune from the second death and final judgement because they are the best of the christians. Only God knows for sure.
 

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