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The Pre Tribulation Rapture: Fact or Fiction?
- Thread starter Jason Borrego
- Start date
n2thelight
Member
Where does the NT teach imminency?Again, Christ told us everything that must happen before His return....The Church does not have to be removed to escape God's wrath,look at the plagues that befell Egypt for proof,the Isreallites were not removed,and yet no harm came to them.....
Christ brings those who have already died back with Him,as they are now in heaven.......There are only two advents of Christ,not three....
Matthew 25:6 "And at midnight there was a cry made, 'Behold the bridegroom cometh, go ye out and meet him.' "
At the end of the eleventh hour, right at the end of this earth age, and the Christians, all ten of them, are anxious to see the bride groom.
Matthew 25:7 "Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps."
Matthew 25:10 "And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut."
At midnight the door was shut, it was midnight, and you were either in or out, there was no changing of mind, for at that moment those that knew the truth, and had the oil absolutely could not be fooled, and all others that had not the truth, could not get it. There was a complete blackout for the truth, or oil, and the only oil on the market was for "strange fire" that led you to the Antichrist.
Friend, if you are banking on waiting to the end to make things right, you are in trouble. When the Antichrist comes to earth, with his locust army of fallen angels, God is going to turn those that have not the truth over to Satan, the Antichrist, and only those seal with the oil of truth in their minds are to be protected. Revelation 9:4; "And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only the those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads."
The seal is the oil, the truth of God, and the the lamps are where the oil is kept, and that is in your mind, which is in your forehead. The foolish virgins are lacking the knowledge of the truth of God to know the difference between the two Christ, Jesus Christ and the Antichrist, and before they have the time to obtain the truth, it will be to late. The door is shut by the Almighty God Himself, and it is He that will cause you to go whoring after the wrong husband.
When Satan arrives in person, the door is shut, and the whole world except those sealed with the oil of God, the Word of God, and know the truth, are given over to Satan, and his hoards of locust army [fallen angels] ..
Matthew 25:13 "Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh."
Do you know the hour? If you are a watchman, you do. Many are called but only a few will be chosen. That time for the watchman to pay attention is here and now. Do you know what hour you are watching for?
That hour is the hour that consummates the end of this age, it is the hour of temptation, which is the time that the New World order has prepared the world to rejoice in their savior, the Antichrist. It is that five month period spoken of in Revelation 9:5, 10.
Matthew 25:32 "And before Him shall be gathered all nations: and He shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:"
Notice that there is no reference to a resurrection here, therefore no reference to Revelation 20. The Gathering to Christ is to be on earth, as Recorded in Isaiah 34:1, 2; and Joel 3:1, 2, 11, and 12. When Christ returns in His glory, there will be division. The division in the beginning of the Millennium age is a time for teaching and discipline. The division that this parable shall end with is the final division where the souls will either go into eternity, or into the lake of fire.
That will be a sad time for those that go into the lake of fire; but for those that go into eternity this will be a joyful time. This will not be a sad time for one entering eternity even if their loved brother and mother and father enter into the lake of fire, Why? Well in the Greek, the meaning is that it will be as if they will never have existed. There will be no pain of the thought of a loved one burning away in this age, and perishing, because it will be as if they had never been born. This is why there will be no tears on the first day.
Revelation 21:4; "And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away."
Revelation 21:8; "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone; which is the second death."
Is your name in the Lamb's book of Life, that is what is important. Jesus has told us how it is put there, and what will happen to all those that are not recorded there. Eternal life is given freely by the mercy and grace that only God can give today, but the time will come when that door is shut tight.
Matthew 25:33 "And He shall set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left."
This separation will be at the time of the sounding of the seventh trumpet when Christ returns, is not the Judgment of the Great white throne, but it is a time of the separation of the nations, or peoples of the earth.
http://www.theseason.org/matthew/matthew25.htm
n2thelight
Member
Christ said those days would be cut short....6 months to be exact,(study for another time)......Now my question to you is,if the days need to be cut short for the elects sake,if they were to be raptured???
Christ also said for us to endure till the end....
farouk
Member
n2thelight:
We need also to look at who being addressed.
Regarding tribulation, there are clearly two sorts.
There is the general tribulation principle that the Lord Jesus refers to, when addressing His disciples, John 16.33.
There is also the Great Tribulation, a unique event, which all will not be called on to go through, Matthew 24.21. It is not the church in view here.
These distinctions are clear.
n2thelight
Member
You are completly missing the object of the graet tribulation,actually before I explain it,what do you think it means,and what will be happening to those who go through it?
farouk
Member
n2thelight:
Sorry, I really don't owe an explanation prior to accepting the Matthew 24 passage with its strongly Jewish and earthly people context, before I personally accept it as being so. The distinctions I mentioned are clear.
At least, to me.
I have explained why to my satisfaction I can't hold that the general principle of tribulation and the great tribulation after the church has gone, should supposedly be lumped together, Friend.
The distinction is so clear in my mind, at least, that really I can't say any more, except spell it out again, which would probably weary you.
Have a nice night, Friend, and folks.
n2thelight
Member
Those scriptures prove nothing of the sort,especially in light of Matt 24
Matthew 24:3 "And as He sat upon the mount of Olives the disciples came unto Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when shall these things be and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?"
Matthew 24:13 "But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved."
Could Christ have returned before the below verse??
Matthew 24:14 "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come."
I think not!!!
So in your world, how soon could Christ have returned after He went back to heaven???
n2thelight
Member
It's all good,but believing in a rapture sets you up to follow satan as he pretends to be Christ....As for the great trib,it's all about deception
Matthew 24:21 "For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be."
This is not the tribulation of God for there are two tribulations, and this tribulation is the tribulation of the deception. This is the tribulation of the locust army, spoken of in the book of Joel. This locust army will so pervert the minds of all men on earth, that the truth of God word will be as a desolate wilderness. It is at this time that the Holy Spirit will speak through the elect, as recorded in Acts 2:6-8. Where when the faithful of Christ were together, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit of God. They left that room and entered the streets, and when they spoke to the multitude, "every man heard in his own language." This was Pentecost, and the Jews came from every part of the world, speaking all the languages of the world. This was not the turkey calling that is presented today, and it needed no interpreter.
As we read in the book of Joel, there will be a tribulation by this locust army that will come upon the whole earth, that will come from the north, and the destruction that comes upon them, you as one of God's elect have nothing to worry about. Why? Because at the coming of Christ, and the destruction of this locust army, you will be changed into your spiritual body, and it will have no affect upon you. Fear of this time is caused by ignorance, for if you know of God's love for His own, you would know that not a hair on your head will be hurt.
This is the tribulation then of the false Christ. This is the order now that Christ shall draw us back to Himself.
n2thelight
Member
IDK. It couldn't have happened back in Pauls day, because the scripture could not have been given to the entire world yet. Yet Paul was taught to watch for Him and expect Him. Paul clearly took this seriously. But with the advent of the internet, it could certainly happen any time now.[/QUOTE]
Sooooo everything Christ said must happen before His return in Matthew 24 mean nothing....???
lowrab777
Member
Zec 13:8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.
Zec 13:9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God.
Last edited by a moderator:
lowrab777
Member
thoughts?
n2thelight
Member
And who may I ask is Israel?
You've got the cutting of those days short correct, but they are specified for a time at the end of the last three and one half years of the great tribulation. And then it is a physical salvation of the body or flesh only because the elect coming out of that time are already born of God. We or none other have ever been born of God by such a condition.
My thoughts.
farouk
Member
Sorry, Friend, I find your language here making me a supposed follower of Satan unacceptably extreme and it means I can't meaningfully interact with you on this thread.
To me in Matthew Chapter Twenty-four Jesus addresses more than just that present time. Matthew 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
I believe if you think things are bad now, or even in the past, you haven't seen anything of that which is to come.
I read someone say that the elect would be tricked into following the false Christ, but Matthew 24:24 says "For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect." It will not be possible!
I believe if you think things are bad now, or even in the past, you haven't seen anything of that which is to come.
I read someone say that the elect would be tricked into following the false Christ, but Matthew 24:24 says "For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect." It will not be possible!
Here are 2 verses one from the beginning about Christ..... and 1 from the end of the book about God's plan.... I am not a gentile I am Christian
Gen_3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
Rev_13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
lowrab777
Member
yes some people are vessels created for distruction for sure
Pro 16:4 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.
Rom 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
Rom 9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
Rom 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
Rom 9:9 For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son.
Rom 9:10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
Rom 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)
Rom 9:12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
Rom 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
Rom 9:14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
Rom 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
Rom 9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
Rom 9:17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
Rom 9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
Rom 9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
Rom 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
Rom 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
Rom 9:22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
Rom 9:23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
Rom 9:24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
Pro 16:4 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.
Rom 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
Rom 9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
Rom 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
Rom 9:9 For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son.
Rom 9:10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
Rom 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)
Rom 9:12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
Rom 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
Rom 9:14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
Rom 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
Rom 9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
Rom 9:17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
Rom 9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
Rom 9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
Rom 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
Rom 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
Rom 9:22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
Rom 9:23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
Rom 9:24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
lowrab777
Member
Zec 11:9 Then said I, I will not feed you: that that dieth, let it die; and that that is to be cut off, let it be cut off; and let the rest eat every one the flesh of another.
Zec 11:10 And I took my staff, even Beauty, and cut it asunder, that I might break my covenant which I had made with all the people.
Zec 11:10 And I took my staff, even Beauty, and cut it asunder, that I might break my covenant which I had made with all the people.