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THE REFORMATION

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Was the reformation a good idea ONLY?

Did it have any drawbacks.........
What was good about it
What was not good about it

What big changes has it caused....

What did the early reformers believe anyway...
and has that changed significantly?

Has it helped man to become save
or has it made concepts more complicated?

I believe the reformation was necessary
but it has caused much controversy about Christianity ---
what it is...what we must do to be saved...

Any thoughts?
 
Was the reformation a good idea ONLY?

Did it have any drawbacks.........
What was good about it
What was not good about it

What big changes has it caused....

What did the early reformers believe anyway...
and has that changed significantly?

Has it helped man to become save
or has it made concepts more complicated?

I believe the reformation was necessary
but it has caused much controversy about Christianity ---
what it is...what we must do to be saved...

Any thoughts?

wondering,

Yes, it was a good idea as Luther's 95 theses addressed some of the bad theology in the RCC.

However, if you want an example of the extremes of Luther's teaching, take a read of his Bondage of the Will. He was more deterministic than Calvin - IMO. Luther was responding to the 'diatribe' (a word used by Luther) of Erasmus in favour of free will.

One of its big drawbacks has been the split into an enormous number of sects/denominations as a result of this 'freedom in Christ'.

Calvinism & Arminianism emerged from Reformation theology.

I am pleased for the enlightenment regarding salvation by grace that came from the Reformation, but I grow tired of the bickering among denominations when we have an evangelistic calling.

Oz
 
What was good about it
What was not good about it
I believe the good was the identification of how the Roman Catholic church at the time had strayed. Unfortunately, the bad was that Martin Luther's quest didn't go quite as planned for his desire was to reform the church and not start a new movement. Additional bad was that it opened the door for the plethora of theologies that came about. I believe today Christianity is confusing many.
 
wondering,

Yes, it was a good idea as Luther's 95 theses addressed some of the bad theology in the RCC.

However, if you want an example of the extremes of Luther's teaching, take a read of his Bondage of the Will. He was more deterministic than Calvin - IMO. Luther was responding to the 'diatribe' (a word used by Luther) of Erasmus in favour of free will.

One of its big drawbacks has been the split into an enormous number of sects/denominations as a result of this 'freedom in Christ'.

Calvinism & Arminianism emerged from Reformation theology.

I am pleased for the enlightenment regarding salvation by grace that came from the Reformation, but I grow tired of the bickering among denominations when we have an evangelistic calling.

Oz
Great post Oz...
You covered a lot.

As to Luther and Calvin....I wonder if many are aware that they did not even agree with each other...so the disagreements began early on in the reformation.

I do agree that Luther responded, as we say today---he OVERREACTED - to the doctrine of the RCC and this might have affected his teachings as he clarified what exactly it was he believed.

I also am pleased that the reformation made man understand that he must answer to God and not to a church (small c).

I resent that the CC kept many under bondage with the rules IT had made up which have nothing to do with the bible.
This is why I do not care for the fathers after 400 AD....

This is rather unfortunate since, at the beginning, the Catholic Church kept Christianity pure and safe from gnosticism and other heresies and preserved what the Apostles taught.
 
Pop up churches where by only,the local pastor is in charge ,seen it.
Agreed. I don't believe I could ever attend a non-denominational church...but I'm sure there are many good ones. But what happens when the pastor retires?? The church ends, pretty much.
 
I believe the good was the identification of how the Roman Catholic church at the time had strayed. Unfortunately, the bad was that Martin Luther's quest didn't go quite as planned for his desire was to reform the church and not start a new movement. Additional bad was that it opened the door for the plethora of theologies that came about. I believe today Christianity is confusing many.
Agreed on all.
I like that you said the CC had strayed....it started out good,,,
but it strayed and that's for sure.

Luther also had some teachings that went against the CC and this might have clouded his doctrine -- not sure; not knowledgeable enough about this, but it sure does seem like this is what he did.
 
Luther wanted reform
Agreed. Reform means change. As I understand it from the reading I've done and documentaries I've seen, the Catholic church had strayed and Luther presented 95 theses in which he identified areas where he saw error. His intent was to bring them up for discussion but the Catholic church would have none of it. When Luther refused to recant his theses, unless he was proved wrong through Scripture, the church proceeded to excommunicate him.
 
Agreed. Reform means change. As I understand it from the reading I've done and documentaries I've seen, the Catholic church had strayed and Luther presented 95 theses in which he identified areas where he saw error. His intent was to bring them up for discussion but the Catholic church would have none of it. When Luther refused to recant his theses, unless he was proved wrong through Scripture, the church proceeded to excommunicate him.
there is a church in arcadia that has the story of him doing that in a mural, its actually not a Lutheran or reformed church but a pentacostal one.
 
well I will say this. the fact that we now don't have trinity day in most churches where the doctrine of trinity is focused on and why. it was big issue in the early church.
 
Great post Oz...
You covered a lot.

As to Luther and Calvin....I wonder if many are aware that they did not even agree with each other...so the disagreements began early on in the reformation.

I do agree that Luther responded, as we say today---he OVERREACTED - to the doctrine of the RCC and this might have affected his teachings as he clarified what exactly it was he believed.

I also am pleased that the reformation made man understand that he must answer to God and not to a church (small c).

I resent that the CC kept many under bondage with the rules IT had made up which have nothing to do with the bible.
This is why I do not care for the fathers after 400 AD....

This is rather unfortunate since, at the beginning, the Catholic Church kept Christianity pure and safe from gnosticism and other heresies and preserved what the Apostles taught.

wondering,

Thanks for your encouragement. It is greatly appreciated.

In the last week while preparing an article on 3 controversial verses in John's Gospel, I read portions of Luther's, Bondage of the Will. He regarded this book as the best he had written.

I was shocked over his hardness and determinism re the function of the will in spiritual matters.

Oz
 
well I will say this. the fact that we now don't have trinity day in most churches where the doctrine of trinity is focused on and why. it was big issue in the early church.

jasonc,

It's a big issue in the church today with so many non-trinitarians knocking on our doors to encourage us to join JW.org.

However, the bigger issue is that many evangelical Christians are sitting ducks for bad theology because so little of it is taught in our churches. Perhaps your church is an exception.

When did you last hear sermons on:
  • The Trinity in the Bible;
  • Three persons in the Trinity;
  • How can Jesus be divine and yet human when on earth?
  • What are the ministries of the Holy Spirit?
  • Election and free will;
  • Women in ministry - or not.
  • Exposition of the Book of Revelation without a superimposed millennial view.
Oz
 
jasonc,

It's a big issue in the church today with so many non-trinitarians knocking on our doors to encourage us to join JW.org.

However, the bigger issue is that many evangelical Christians are sitting ducks for bad theology because so little of it is taught in our churches. Perhaps your church is an exception.

When did you last hear sermons on:
  • The Trinity in the Bible;
  • Three persons in the Trinity;
  • How can Jesus be divine and yet human when on earth?
  • What are the ministries of the Holy Spirit?
  • Election and free will;
  • Women in ministry - or not.
  • Exposition of the Book of Revelation without a superimposed millennial view.
Oz
Most of that in a reformed church ,quite recent
 
Most of that in a reformed church ,quite recent

jasonc,

Many Presbyterian and Reformed churches in my region do preach on theological topics. The one I had been attending generally preached through books of the Bible where some theology was dealt with.

Recently, the pastor did an exposition of the Book of Revelation and in my view he violated Rev 22:18-19 (NIV):

I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: if anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll. And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll.​

He imposed his Amillennial interpretation on the text and in so doing did not preach from the rich imagery of the text but added to and subtracted from the text.

I sat aghast at what he did, yet people in the congregation were saying 'Amen' to some of his points.

Oz
 
Then there is the topic of political ramifications of that day and time.
The church ruled the world. Its soldiers were the only soldiers there were. It was also the police force. Taxes/offerings were not fair or equitable. The local church had little input on what would happen.
As a result the central leadership of the church began to fail the different countries.
Then there was the control and censorship of individuals much like we condemn China for today. Who could get an education was determined by nobility and money.

The new "scientific method " demanded the creation of art, physics, medicine, and theology that was based on something other than a commentary on a commentary on a commentary of a song about the bible.
The creation of the printing press...it revolutionized how information was processed, presented, and shared.
It was created before the mass production of paper so the process was extremely expensive to print anything. But they did it anyway. Paper making was a trade skill...like candle making or silver smithing.
 
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