Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • Focus on the Family

    Strengthening families through biblical principles.

    Focus on the Family addresses the use of biblical principles in parenting and marriage to strengthen the family.

  • Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
  • The Gospel of Jesus Christ

    Heard of "The Gospel"? Want to know more?

    There is salvation in no other, for there is not another name under heaven having been given among men, by which it behooves us to be saved."

the removal the church isnt supportable

2024 Website Hosting Fees

Total amount
$905.00
Goal
$1,038.00

jasoncran

Member
per matthew 24

But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

in the flood, noah remained on the earth and the wicked were removed.

so it will be when he returns. we will be renewed and the earthed.
 
per matthew 24



in the flood, noah remained on the earth and the wicked were removed.

so it will be when he returns. we will be renewed and the earthed.

Why are these verses talking about the church? There is a strong Jewish background to Matthew and they more likely fit tribulation saints.
 
Why are these verses talking about the church? There is a strong Jewish background to Matthew and they more likely fit tribulation saints.
so there WONT be gentiles in this trib? God said in his word that the communion isnt in effect during the trib?No baptism, a different faith? what will these jews of your believe?

funny paul said we(including himself) that are alive at his coming will be caught up. what nationalitly was paul? a jew of the house of benjamin.hmm if jews are caught up why then do you disagree?

an nation is made of people. salvation and gods plan to isreal involved people. the church will be dealt with nationally like isreal was.its clear. the judgement. those that rebelled in isreals judgement died and those that were right with god survived. ie the prophets jeremiah, daniel and others.

same with the church. basic literacy. i should teach this stuff at church if the lord wills.
 
so there WONT be gentiles in this trib? God said in his word that the communion isnt in effect during the trib?No baptism, a different faith? what will these jews of your believe?

funny paul said we(including himself) that are alive at his coming will be caught up. what nationalitly was paul? a jew of the house of benjamin.hmm if jews are caught up why then do you disagree?

an nation is made of people. salvation and gods plan to isreal involved people. the church will be dealt with nationally like isreal was.its clear. the judgement. those that rebelled in isreals judgement died and those that were right with god survived. ie the prophets jeremiah, daniel and others.

same with the church. basic literacy. i should teach this stuff at church if the lord wills.

Hard to figure how your national church theory would apply in a place like Toronto: the world's most racially diverse city; one would end up dividing every street and nearly every family...

Paul Himself says there are three entities: Jews, Gentile and the church of God.
 
Hard to figure how your national church theory would apply in a place like Toronto: the world's most racially diverse city; one would end up dividing every street and nearly every family...

Paul Himself says there are three entities: Jews, Gentile and the church of God.
of what seed was the half tribes of joseph?

EGYPT! sorry you miss the point. the church of god doesnt include jews and gentiles? so the isrealites(a jew is only of judah and benjamin and some levites that rejoined themselves to the nation in the return)but for the most part a levite is both from isreal and judah.

the letters to the romans didnt include jews in them. baptism was for the jews THEN. odd that isnt what jesus said. baptise them all in the name of the FATHER, THE SON, AND HOLY GHOST.

ALL IS all. AND there were jewish converts to christ. paul was one and he was baptised.
 
of what seed was the half tribes of joseph?

EGYPT! sorry you miss the point. the church of god doesnt include jews and gentiles? so the isrealites(a jew is only of judah and benjamin and some levites that rejoined themselves to the nation in the return)but for the most part a levite is both from isreal and judah.

the letters to the romans didnt include jews in them. baptism was for the jews THEN. odd that isnt what jesus said. baptise them all in the name of the FATHER, THE SON, AND HOLY GHOST.

ALL IS all. AND there were jewish converts to christ. paul was one and he was baptised.

...but once they belong to the church, they might have something of their former identity of Jew or Gentile, but as the body of Christ cleansed by His blood this is now their main, new identity.

And you don't find the church in the Old Testament, either.

(See: I'm a dispensationalist :) )
 
...but once they belong to the church, they might have something of their former identity of Jew or Gentile, but as the body of Christ cleansed by His blood this is now their main, new identity.

And you don't find the church in the Old Testament, either.

(See: I'm a dispensationalist :) )
duh but that doesnt mean anything in this age. what was the function of isreal? what were they do? reach the world and tell them of the YHWH and his torah and way to him. for the isrealites it was the torah that they were under the mosiac law, the gentiles were never to be under the commands of the shabat nor the the feasts.

the covenant with them at horeb was with the gentiles who joined to isreal and also the hebrews there. it was translated per oral traditions into the 70 languages known at the time and the whole word knew of isreal.its not in the bible but the sages teach this.

makes sense if you take why exodus it says that the whole world may know there is GOD in isreal, and what is said in genesis.

now then the nation of isreal failed they never did nor could have reach the world like the church has its clearly stated by the apostle paul the law cant perfect, it didnt change one's heart merely condemned you.

yes if the jews and isrealites did obey they would have been that light but god says they werent going to even when he gave them the torah.

i can back all this up with verses.

i ask in the trib with these jews do the law or believe in christ?will the gentiles beleive in christ or the law?
 
I suppose that Futurists are looking to the 'Lot model' rather than the 'Noah model' to support their idea of a rapture. Yet Jesus was speaking of Noah's time.:shrug
 
I suppose that Futurists are looking to the 'Lot model' rather than the 'Noah model' to support their idea of a rapture. Yet Jesus was speaking of Noah's time.:shrug
i agree and a pastor has been preaching on it here and it ties it to how one does the gospel. ie the world is going to be leveled and so forth,. so why try to change the world, just get them saved and god will evac us out.
 
...but once they belong to the church, they might have something of their former identity of Jew or Gentile, but as the body of Christ cleansed by His blood this is now their main, new identity.

And you don't find the church in the Old Testament, either.

(See: I'm a dispensationalist :) )

The holy assembly of Abraham's seed is/was the Church in the old testament.

Abraham was the first member!

You better read Genesis 17 again!

The Lord Jesus made covenant with Abraham.


JLB
 
Let's compare scriptures talking of the same time; a time just prior to the millennium.

Daniel 12:12-13. "Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. 13. But go thou thy way till the end be . ."

and:

Matthew 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end (What end?), the same shall be saved.

Matthew 24:37. "But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be."

Matthew 24:39. "And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be." Were any of those taken away in the days of Noah taken to heaven? This is not the rapture of the Church.

Matthew 24:40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. The one left will be the one that endured until the end and was saved alive to enter the millennium.

Matthew 24:41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Where will these taken go as they did in the days of Noah? Will it be in death to await future judgment at the great white throne?
:chin
 
Let's compare scriptures talking of the same time; a time just prior to the millennium.

Daniel 12:12-13. "Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. 13. But go thou thy way till the end be . ."

and:

Matthew 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end (What end?), the same shall be saved.

Matthew 24:37. "But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be."

Matthew 24:39. "And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be." Were any of those taken away in the days of Noah taken to heaven? This is not the rapture of the Church.

Matthew 24:40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. The one left will be the one that endured until the end and was saved alive to enter the millennium.

Matthew 24:41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Where will these taken go as they did in the days of Noah? Will it be in death to await future judgment at the great white throne?
:chin


from my grandmothers tanach.

66-73 ce end of jewish war with rome.

if what you say is unknowable to those in the trib then why do we bother teaching it?i mean we are gone, if you are mid trib or post trib then that is troublesome, time frame issues.

neither of these is acceptable.
 
The holy assembly of Abraham's seed is/was the Church in the old testament.

Abraham was the first member!

You better read Genesis 17 again!

The Lord Jesus made covenant with Abraham.


JLB


joel 2 was that about isreal or the church?

2 Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the Lord cometh, for it is nigh at hand;
2 A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations.
3 A fire devoureth before them; and behind them a flame burneth: the land is as the garden of Eden before them, and behind them a desolate wilderness; yea, and nothing shall escape them.
4 The appearance of them is as the appearance of horses; and as horsemen, so shall they run.
5 Like the noise of chariots on the tops of mountains shall they leap, like the noise of a flame of fire that devoureth the stubble, as a strong people set in battle array.
6 Before their face the people shall be much pained: all faces shall gather blackness.
7 They shall run like mighty men; they shall climb the wall like men of war; and they shall march every one on his ways, and they shall not break their ranks:
8 Neither shall one thrust another; they shall walk every one in his path: and when they fall upon the sword, they shall not be wounded.
9 They shall run to and fro in the city; they shall run upon the wall, they shall climb up upon the houses; they shall enter in at the windows like a thief.
10 The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining:
11 And the Lord shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp is very great: for he is strong that executeth his word: for the day of the Lord is great and very terrible; and who can abide it?
12 Therefore also now, saith the Lord, turn ye even to me with all your heart, and with fasting, and with weeping, and with mourning:
13 And rend your heart, and not your garments, and turn unto the Lord your God: for he is gracious and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repenteth him of the evil.
14 Who knoweth if he will return and repent, and leave a blessing behind him; even a meat offering and a drink offering unto the Lord your God?
15 Blow the trumpet in Zion, sanctify a fast, call a solemn assembly:
16 Gather the people, sanctify the congregation, assemble the elders, gather the children, and those that suck the breasts: let the bridegroom go forth of his chamber, and the bride out of her closet.
17 Let the priests, the ministers of the Lord, weep between the porch and the altar, and let them say, Spare thy people, O Lord, and give not thine heritage to reproach, that the heathen should rule over them: wherefore should they say among the people, Where is their God?
18 Then will the Lord be jealous for his land, and pity his people.
19 Yea, the Lord will answer and say unto his people, Behold, I will send you corn, and wine, and oil, and ye shall be satisfied therewith: and I will no more make you a reproach among the heathen:
20 But I will remove far off from you the northern army, and will drive him into a land barren and desolate, with his face toward the east sea, and his hinder part toward the utmost sea, and his stink shall come up, and his ill savour shall come up, because he hath done great things.
21 Fear not, O land; be glad and rejoice: for the Lord will do great things.
22 Be not afraid, ye beasts of the field: for the pastures of the wilderness do spring, for the tree beareth her fruit, the fig tree and the vine do yield their strength.
23 Be glad then, ye children of Zion, and rejoice in the Lord your God: for he hath given you the former rain moderately, and he will cause to come down for you the rain, the former rain, and the latter rain in the first month.
24 And the floors shall be full of wheat, and the vats shall overflow with wine and oil.
25 And I will restore to you the years that the locust hath eaten, the cankerworm, and the caterpiller, and the palmerworm, my great army which I sent among you.
26 And ye shall eat in plenty, and be satisfied, and praise the name of the Lord your God, that hath dealt wondrously with you: and my people shall never be ashamed.
27 And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the Lord your God, and none else: and my people shall never be ashamed.
28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.
30 And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.
31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible day of the Lord come.
32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the Lord hath said, and in the remnant whom the Lord shall call.

the apostle peter says it was.

the church began at the cross.

acts 2
16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come:
21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved

apperently you all know more then that jewish shimeon barjona(peters hebrew name)

im sure if he was alive he could still recite the torah by memory as all jews do then and today during there bar and batmitzvahs.
 
If you are mid trib or post trib then that is troublesome, time frame issues.
That is fine. Would you deny that Revelation 4:1 announces the time frame of the Lord's Day; "Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter." Does certain ones appear prior to the tribulation with Jesus in heaven? Next, who are they of Revelation 7:14 that came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb standing before the throne of God.
 
That is fine. Would you deny that Revelation 4:1 announces the time frame of the Lord's Day; "Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter." Does certain ones appear prior to the tribulation with Jesus in heaven? Next, who are they of Revelation 7:14 that came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb standing before the throne of God.

we have been the great trib since the time of christ.

if you want to go there ONLY that die beheaded and dont have the mark of the beast are going to reing with christ but yet paul said in corinthians something that says "know ye not that we shall judge men and angels?"

hmm yet how many of them died in old age and didnt have their heads cut off, if you notice with revalation its never said and they did because they didnt believe in christ but lists their sins.

odd. aint it.

there arent places on this earth right now where christians die for the gospel?hmm i thinking of india, china, the muslim nations and yet chinas' church is the greates of them all. they run to join it and knowingly will die. that is how the church will be if that is what works why on earth would god remove the the church to save isreal? why would then god also keep a church on the earth and then focus on isreal?

we have been saving jews for a millenia. just because the rcc and protestants at large went bankrupt doesnt negate the power of the cross. when the lord said that the gates of hell shall not prevail agaisnt it. he meant it.

so to say that isreal must return to be that "light"implies that the cross and the church cant do it.
 
We have been the great trib since the time of christ.

if you want to go there ONLY that die beheaded and dont have the mark of the beast are going to reing with christ
You've got me dead to rights brother, for I do not know where you're headed with this, but I'm over twenty and easily confused. Thanks. :wave
 
You've got me dead to rights brother, for I do not know where you're headed with this, but I'm over twenty and easily confused. Thanks. :wave
simple. read the entire book of revalation. and then compare the apostles statements.

it says in revalation ONLY that are beheaded and so forth are in heaven. hmm that leaves you a problem
revalation 20
And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection

where is the idea of the church in all of these verses? the 144k are given a place in heaven and no mention of this? and theres others such as these gentiles?
revalation 7
And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.
17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes

the church isnt found in any of these verses in that book. where is it? to me that above is the church and so it the other.some saints die like that and others are cleansed by the blood.
 
Sorry, but I won't argue the matter, but will suggest that the throne of God is in heaven. In Revelation 4:1 we read "A door was opened in heaven" and John is invited to go there; "Come up hither."

Next in Revelation 4:4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold. These elders got to heaven somehow. Revelation 4:6 says there are four living ones in the midst of the throne; again another group in heaven.

Another group to appear in heaven is the great multitude of Revelation 7:9 "After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands." These were not all Jewish, nor does it state they were all beheaded.

Another is the man child of Revelation 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. Beheaded? Brother, I'll leave you now with whatever you desire this to mean. God bless you in Jesus' name.
 
The holy assembly of Abraham's seed is/was the Church in the old testament.

Abraham was the first member!

You better read Genesis 17 again!

The Lord Jesus made covenant with Abraham.


JLB
Noah would would argue that point.
 
Back
Top