The Teachings of Paul

[elijah23]

Some Christians believe the teachings of Paul are infallible. Did anyone believe this during his lifetime? If not, when did they start believing it? Why did some Christians start believing Paul’s teachings were infallible?

 

[Sparkey]

Brother, you seem to be directing this at an unknown audience. Who are the "some Christians" you mention, please? Christians believe the teaching of the Holy Spirit through the Apostle Paul (as recorded in the Bible) are true. Is that what you meant to ask?

Cordially,
~Sparrow

 

[elijah23]

Brother, you seem to be directing this at an unknown audience. Who are the "some Christians" you mention, please? Christians believe the teaching of the Holy Spirit through the Apostle Paul (as recorded in the Bible) are true. Is that what you meant to ask?

Cordially,
~Sparrow

My understanding is that “conservative†or “fundamentalist†Christians believe the teachings of Paul are infallible, while other Christians do not. I didn’t want to debate that. I just wondered if anybody could answer my three questions.

 

[Sparkey]

1. Did anyone believe this during his lifetime?
2. If not, when did they start believing it?
3. Why did some Christians start believing Paul’s teachings were infallible?

The answer to your first question then is "Yes."
The second question then is answered in the first.
The third question assumes that ONLY some believed that Saul of Tarsus was sent by Jesus Christ himself.

Jesus spoke to Saul who lost his sight during the encounter. Another man, Ananias, was given a vision and The Lord spoke to him and directed him to go to Saul. Ananias replied to Jesus in the vision, "Lord?"

[Acts 9:13-14 KJV] - Then Ananias answered, "Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem: And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name."

But the Lord said unto him, "Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:" ...

And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, "Brother Saul, the Lord, [even] Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost."

And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized. And when he had received meat, he was strengthened.

Then was Saul certain days with the disciples which were at Damascus. And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God.

But all that heard [him] were amazed, and said; "Is not this he that destroyed them which called on this name in Jerusalem, and came hither for that intent, that he might bring them bound unto the chief priests?"

But Saul increased the more in strength, and confounded the Jews which dwelt at Damascus, proving that this is very Christ. [Acts 9:15, 17-22 KJV]


Paul taught that Jesus is the Son of God.

~Sparrow

 

[elijah23]

The third question assumes that ONLY some believed that Saul of Tarsus was sent by Jesus Christ himself.

I’m not aware of any Christians that dispute Paul was sent by Jesus. There might be a dispute, though, whether or not Paul’s teachings were infallible, mightn’t there?

 

[farouk]

Rather than revolve around a maybe evolving and changing set of doubts, I would prefer to be involved in discussion which acknowledges that Scripture - of which Paul's Epistles are a portion - is 'given by inspiration of God'. The Bible is self-authenticating. We can't go to some higher authority and let that person decide whether he or she wants to confer trustworthiness onto it.

Otherwise, however involved, the question will just go round and round in circles.

 

[Sparkey]

Pardon me, Elijah23. I don't think we've been introduced and although this is a public forum it's good (I think) for brothers to greet brothers well. From what I've read, we are the same age - 1953 babies, yes? I also know that you have a real appreciation for the "teachings of Jesus".

The point of my previous post was that Jesus himself chose Paul and appointed him for several tasks: To preach to the Gentiles (of which I am one), to Kings and to the Children of Israel. It was by the Holy Spirit that Paul was able to do as directed.

Jesus didn't speak on his own but spake what the Father gave him to say. We need to bind our words to the truth and boldly speak the word of truth as we are changed by the living word. The mystery to me is how God can use those such as you and me and join us into the pure ministry of His son.

[John 5:24 KJV] - Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

[John 8:31, 37, 43 KJV] - Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, [then] are ye my disciples indeed; ... I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you. ... Why do ye not understand my speech? [even] because ye cannot hear my word.

Paul had the mind of Christ and by the Holy Spirit spoke in accordance with his mission. That "mission" was three-fold:

1. To Gentiles.
2. To Kings.
3. To the Children of Israel.

When we consider what the Holy Spirit said through His servant it is important to understand and pray about it. Peter spoke about the things that Paul wrote in is epistles:

Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless. And account [that] the longsuffering of our Lord [is] salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all [his] epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as [they do] also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know [these things] before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness. But grow in grace, and [in] the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him [be] glory both now and for ever. Amen. [2 Peter 3:13-18 KJV]​

Cordially,
~Sparrow

 

[elijah23]

Rather than revolve around a maybe evolving and changing set of doubts, I would prefer to be involved in discussion which acknowledges that Scripture - of which Paul's Epistles are a portion - is 'given by inspiration of God'. The Bible is self-authenticating. We can't go to some higher authority and let that person decide whether he or she wants to confer trustworthiness onto it.

Otherwise, however involved, the question will just go round and round in circles.

The ultimate authority is God the Father.

Why are we to believe Paul’s teachings were infallible?

 

[Sparkey]

Re: The Teachings of the Apostles

The ultimate authority is God the Father.

Why are we to believe Paul’s teachings were infallible?

Peter spoke of this subject (quoted below) in one of his letters and said that it's the habit of unlearned men to twist "scripture". Paul's writings were included in that.

If for no other reason it is also included in the Terms of Service:

This is a Christian site, therefore, any attempt to put down Christianity and the basic tenets of our Faith will be considered a hostile act. Statement of Faith

We consider Paul's writings to be part of the inspired Word of God.

I don't think you need me to teach you and am not willing to try to convince past unwillingness. Rather it is my hope that those who doubt the full gospel message (as delivered by Jesus to his Apostles and preached throughout the ages) will give due diligence and prayerfully allow the Holy Spirit to guide them.

Cordially,
~Sparrow

 

[elijah23]

Re: The Teachings of the Apostles

Peter spoke of this subject (quoted below) in one of his letters and said that it's the habit of unlearned men to twist "scripture". Paul's writings were included in that.

If for no other reason it is also included in the Terms of Service:


I don't think you need me to teach you and am not willing to try to convince past unwillingness. Rather it is my hope that those who doubt the full gospel message (as delivered by Jesus to his Apostles and preached throughout the ages) will give due diligence and prayerfully allow the Holy Spirit to guide them.

Cordially,
~Sparrow

I believe the Lord wants me to uncover truth.

 

[Alabaster]

Some Christians believe the teachings of Paul are infallible. Did anyone believe this during his lifetime? If not, when did they start believing it? Why did some Christians start believing Paul’s teachings were infallible?

The WORD is infallible. If you find something wrong with the word of God, take it to Him and please don't try to poison the minds of believers who need nourishment from the word here, either openly or with subtlety. It hurts the heart of God.

 

[elijah23]

The WORD is infallible. If you find something wrong with the word of God, take it to Him and please don't try to poison the minds of believers who need nourishment from the word here, either openly or with subtlety. It hurts the heart of God.

I was never taught that the teachings of Paul were infallible. My church taught me to love the Lord with all my heart, mind, and soul, and love my neighbor as myself.

 

[Alabaster]

I was never taught that the teachings of Paul were infallible. My church taught me to love the Lord with all my heart, mind, and soul, and love my neighbor as myself.

Then, your teachers were remiss. The Scriptures are infallible and that includes the epistles. What on earth kind of church do you belong to?

2 Peter 3:15-16 NLT
And remember, the Lord’s patience gives people time to be saved. This is what our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you with the wisdom God gave him—speaking of these things in all of his letters. Some of his comments are hard to understand, and those who are ignorant and unstable have twisted his letters to mean something quite different, just as they do with other parts of Scripture. And this will result in their destruction.

 

[elijah23]

Then, your teachers were remiss. The Scriptures are infallible and that includes the epistles. What on earth kind of church do you belong to?

2 Peter 3:15-16 NLT
And remember, the Lord’s patience gives people time to be saved. This is what our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you with the wisdom God gave him—speaking of these things in all of his letters. Some of his comments are hard to understand, and those who are ignorant and unstable have twisted his letters to mean something quite different, just as they do with other parts of Scripture. And this will result in their destruction.

I was not raised to believe that the teachings of Paul and Peter were infallible. Therefore, I think it is a legitimate question to ask: Why do you think the teachings of Paul and Peter are infallible?

 

[theLords]

I was not raised to believe that the teachings of Paul and Peter were infallible. Therefore, I think it is a legitimate question to ask: Why do you think the teachings of Paul and Peter are infallible?

Why do you have faith that the Gospels are infallible? Jesus didn't write them.

 

[elijah23]

Why do you have faith that the Gospels are infallible? Jesus didn't write them.

Because I have faith that the Lord had the words of Jesus written down accurately, so that we would know what his will was.

 

[theLords]

Because I have faith that the Lord had the words of Jesus written down accurately, so that we would know what his will was.

So the Lord is only faithful to a certain extent? and after that we're kind of on our own?

 

[elijah23]

So the Lord is only faithful to a certain extent? and after that we're kind of on our own?

Jesus was God in flesh, I believe. His words are infallible.

Peter speaks of Scripture, but the New Testament had not been created yet. He was referring to the Old Testament, certainly.

Paul was a great missionary with tremendous wisdom. Still, it seems to me his teachings should be taken with a grain of salt. I have learned a great deal from him, but his statement that women should not speak in church seems unjust. Jesus told us to be just. We have women pastors and bishops in my denomination.

 

[theLords]

Jesus was God in flesh, I believe. His words are infallible.

Peter speaks of Scripture, but the New Testament had not been created yet. He was referring to the Old Testament, certainly.

Paul was a great missionary with tremendous wisdom. Still, it seems to me his teachings should be taken with a grain of salt. I have learned a great deal from him, but his statement that women should not speak in church seems unjust. Jesus told us to be just. We have women pastors and bishops in my denomination.

You should really do some research before making blanket statements:

Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless. And account [that] the longsuffering of our Lord [is] salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all [his] epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as [they do] also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know [these things] before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness. But grow in grace, and [in] the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him [be] glory both now and for ever. Amen. [2 Peter 3:13-18 KJV]​

Cordially,
~Sparrow

Everyone likes to quote those passages, but no one likes to quote the one that follows:

1 Corinthians 14:36 KJV
What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?

 

[Alabaster]

I was not raised to believe that the teachings of Paul and Peter were infallible. Therefore, I think it is a legitimate question to ask: Why do you think the teachings of Paul and Peter are infallible?

I already told you. They are part of the canon of scripture and therefore, God-breathed. It was not man's decision to include them---it was by God's orchestration.

Paul was an apostle. Apostles had the ability to write scripture by God's anointing.

Why do you make things so complicated for yourself? Do you own a bible? Do you only read the red lettered parts? Do you know that you are cutting off life-giving truth by devaluing parts of God's word? Do you know how that hurts the Father?

More importantly, do you not realize that what you are believing is imperfect? Therefore you fail at perfection. Doesn't that mean you have sinned and need to repent? Aren't you always in a state of pain? Remember...you said this:

When we stop sinning, I think the pain goes away.