The Temple in Jerusalem

[for_his_glory]

You are responding to my reply to another. If you go back and read it all, I believe I have already given Scripture for what you ask.

If you want to start over concerning just the Tribulation period, start another thread. I will participate.

Both you and I know that we come to the Bible with different methods of interpretation. So, we will never come to an agreement. But, if you want to address it, I am willing. Start another thread.

Quantrill

Of course I am replying to your reply to another as I asked you a simple question as all I was asking in all sincerity was that you post those scriptures that state a seven year tribulation period and a pretrib rapture.

Years ago I use to believe in a seven year tribulation and a pretrib rapture and after 40 years of studying I have never found them. I was hoping you would share them with all of us, but apparently it seems you do not want to share them in one single reply.

 

[for_his_glory]

I do not dispute the 2nd Coming of Christ. I dispute that Christ coming for His Church, His Bride, where the Church is called out of the earth, occurs at the same time when Christ returns to earth.

Quantrill

Nobody is disputing the second coming of Christ. What is being disputed is what He has already said about His second coming that you seem to not believe. You can either believe what is already written in scripture, or you can believe your dispensationalist teachers like I use to back in the 80's

 

[Randy]

The Church is the Body and Bride of Christ. It began at Pentecost and is completed at the Rapture.

The Church is the Temple present on earth today. (1 Cor. 3:9-17) (1 Peter 2:5-7)

The Church comes into and under the New Covenant. That Covenant is new only in comparison to the Mosaic Covenant. It was not unknown to Israel. At least, it shouldn't have been. (Jer. 31:31-34)

The Rapture is the only Rapture. The resurrection of those prior to the Rapture, and the living saints taken up alive and changed, are all part of the Rapture. Those of all nations who become believers during the Tribulation and die, will not be part of the Church. They will be the Tribulation saints. (Rev. 7:13-17). Those of the 12 tribes of Israel who are sealed, are Israel.

I have no problem with (Rev. 11)

I have no problem with (Rev. 16:15).

I also believe the Temple will be built and exist during the Tribulation.

You're talking to the wrong person. I haven't been pushing a thread on the pretrib Rapture. I just used it to explain away the problem of two temples of God on earth at the same time. But, here we are. And, that's fine. However if you want to start one, go ahead. I will participate.

Are you saying the Rapture occurs after the Tribulation?

Quantrill

I would state those left alive on the last day, at the coming of the lord, will be caught up and clothed with immortality and the resurrection of the righteous is on that last day. I would state the beasts makes war against the saints for those 42 months and that will call for patient endurance and faithfulness on the part of the saints.

I consider the reign of the beast as the days of the great tribulation. He will cause and be the cause of astounding devastation on the earth.

If any escape the world before the 2nd coming it will be through the death of the body. Blessed are those who die in the Lord before all that evil.

The covenant Jesus introduced by His blood in Israel is the only covenant that exists. Many of the children of Abraham came to Christ and if their descendants remained in the faith they are most likely call Christians in this day and age. They are hidden in the body of Christ. But in Christ there is neither Jew nor gentile. The same Spirit is given to all.

I do not read the figurative language you noted as the Church being a temple. I have no problem with the unbelievers building a new temple according to the dimensions given by God to Moses. They will build that temple as it needed to fulfill prophecy.

I do not state replacement. I state who God calls His children which started in Israel.
children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

In light of who God calls His children and the covenant Jesus introduced by His blood there are those who claim a uniqueness, the Jewish people, that no longer exists as "they believe".

 

[JLB]

Strange response. You have spoken of the Tribulation before. Now you are indicating there is no such thing.

Those are your words.

I am only showing at this time what the scriptures say about when the resurrection and rapture take place, which is at the coming of the Lord. This plainly means the second coming of Christ. This is what the scriptures teach.

You either agree or you disagree.

The Lord also destroys the antichrist at His coming.


For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 1 Thessalonians 4:15

• The resurrection and rapture.

And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 2 Thessalonians 2:8

• The destruction of the antiChrist.

Once we have established and agree that these three things take place at the coming of the Lord, then we have a foundation to build on in discussing other things concerning the end times.


Based on 1 Thessalonians 4:15 and 2 Thessalonians 2:8, these three things occur at the coming of the Lord.

1. The Resurrection
2. The Rapture
3. The destruction of the antichrist.

Do you agree or disagree?



JLB

 

[JLB]

I would state those left alive on the last day, at the coming of the lord, will be caught up and clothed with immortality and the resurrection of the righteous is on that last day.

Amen.


The resurrection of the dead in Christ is on the last day, at His coming.


This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”
John 6:39-40

 

[stovebolts]

I could be wrong, but I don’t believe a third temple will be built in Jerusalem. In part, here is why.

Genesis 26 19 Isaac’s servants dug in the valley and discovered a well of fresh water there. 20 But the herders of Gerar quarreled with those of Isaac and said, “The water is ours!” So he named the well Esek,[c] because they disputed with him. 21 Then they dug another well, but they quarreled over that one also; so he named it Sitnah.[d] 22 He moved on from there and dug another well, and no one quarreled over it. He named it Rehoboth,[e] saying, “Now the Lordhas given us room and we will flourish in the land.”

The first well represents the first temple, Solomons Temple. Israel disputed over it and it was destroyed after Israel was divided.

The second Temple represents the second temple. It was disputed for several reasons, including Herod defiling it in many ways. It was destroyed.

The third temple represents the messianic era, the Christ himself because there is room for all.


English Standard Version
Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”

10 Jesus answered her, “If you knew the gift of God and who it is that asks you for a drink, you would have asked him and he would have given you living water.”
11 “Sir,” the woman said, “you have nothing to draw with and the well is deep. Where can you get this living water? 12 Are you greater than our father Jacob, who gave us the well and drank from it himself, as did also his sons and his livestock?”
13 Jesus answered, “Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again, 14 but whoever drinks the water I give them will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give them will become in them a spring of water welling up to eternal life.”

37 On the last day, the climax of the festival, Jesus stood and shouted to the crowds, “Anyone who is thirsty may come to me! 38 Anyone who believes in me may come and drink! For the Scriptures declare, ‘Rivers of living water will flow from his heart.’”[a] 39 (When he said “living water,” he was speaking of the Spirit, who would be given to everyone believing in him. But the Spirit had not yet been given,[b] because Jesus had not yet entered into his glory.)

 

[Quantrill]

I would state those left alive on the last day, at the coming of the lord, will be caught up and clothed with immortality and the resurrection of the righteous is on that last day. I would state the beasts makes war against the saints for those 42 months and that will call for patient endurance and faithfulness on the part of the saints.

I consider the reign of the beast as the days of the great tribulation. He will cause and be the cause of astounding devastation on the earth.

If any escape the world before the 2nd coming it will be through the death of the body. Blessed are those who die in the Lord before all that evil.

The covenant Jesus introduced by His blood in Israel is the only covenant that exists. Many of the children of Abraham came to Christ and if their descendants remained in the faith they are most likely call Christians in this day and age. They are hidden in the body of Christ. But in Christ there is neither Jew nor gentile. The same Spirit is given to all.

I do not read the figurative language you noted as the Church being a temple. I have no problem with the unbelievers building a new temple according to the dimensions given by God to Moses. They will build that temple as it needed to fulfill prophecy.

I do not state replacement. I state who God calls His children which started in Israel.
children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

In light of who God calls His children and the covenant Jesus introduced by His blood there are those who claim a uniqueness, the Jewish people, that no longer exists as "they believe".

So, again, to be clear, are you saying the Rapture occurs after the Tribulation?

Which 'new temple' are you talking about. The one during the Tribulation or the one during the Millennium? Moses was not instructed to build any Temple. The Millennial Temple was not given by Moses. It is laid out in (Ezekiel 40-48). David was given the plans for Solomons Temple. (1 Chron. 28:12,19)

Quantrill

 

[Randy]

So, again, to be clear, are you saying the Rapture occurs after the Tribulation?

Which 'new temple' are you talking about. The one during the Tribulation or the one during the Millennium? Moses was not instructed to build any Temple. The Millennial Temple was not given by Moses. It is laid out in (Ezekiel 40-48). David was given the plans for Solomons Temple. (1 Chron. 28:12,19)

Quantrill

The body of Christ will have to endure the reign of the beast. Those alive at the 2nd coming will be caught up and clothed with immortality. Those resurrected and returning with Christ are already clothed with immortality.

 

[Quantrill]

Of course I am replying to your reply to another as I asked you a simple question as all I was asking in all sincerity was that you post those scriptures that state a seven year tribulation period and a pretrib rapture.

Years ago I use to believe in a seven year tribulation and a pretrib rapture and after 40 years of studying I have never found them. I was hoping you would share them with all of us, but apparently it seems you do not want to share them in one single reply.

What is a 'week' in (Dan. 9:27). Is a week 3 and 1/2? Or, is a week 7?

Really, what did you study for 40 years? What books or commentaries?

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

The body of Christ will have to endure the reign of the beast. Those alive at the 2nd coming will be caught up and clothed with immortality. Those resurrected and returning with Christ are already clothed with immortality.

A simple yes or no. Are you saying the Rapture occurs after the Tribulation?

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

Those are your words.

I am only showing at this time what the scriptures say about when the resurrection and rapture take place, which is at the coming of the Lord. This plainly means the second coming of Christ. This is what the scriptures teach.

You either agree or you disagree.

The Lord also destroys the antichrist at His coming.


For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 1 Thessalonians 4:15

• The resurrection and rapture.

And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 2 Thessalonians 2:8

• The destruction of the antiChrist.

Once we have established and agree that these three things take place at the coming of the Lord, then we have a foundation to build on in discussing other things concerning the end times.


Based on 1 Thessalonians 4:15 and 2 Thessalonians 2:8, these three things occur at the coming of the Lord.

1. The Resurrection
2. The Rapture
3. The destruction of the antichrist.

Do you agree or disagree?



JLB

I have already told you I disagree with your timing. See post #(64).

Again, where is the Tribulation in your timeline?

Quantrill

 

[Randy]

So, again, to be clear, are you saying the Rapture occurs after the Tribulation?

Which 'new temple' are you talking about. The one during the Tribulation or the one during the Millennium? Moses was not instructed to build any Temple. The Millennial Temple was not given by Moses. It is laid out in (Ezekiel 40-48). David was given the plans for Solomons Temple. (1 Chron. 28:12,19)

Quantrill

Ok regardless the temple is a copy of the one in heaven and dimensions were given by God. I assume those who put their hope in Torah rather than Christ will follow those instructions. I do not view the body of Christ as a copy of the temple in heaven. If the beast or anti Christ or lawless one is to reveal himself in that temple then I believe there will be a temple built in order to fulfill that prophecy. Clearly our atonement is found in Christ in that He entered the temple in Heaven by His blood. And when the sins have been forgiven there is no need for further sacrifices and offerings. The temple is not for our benefit.

 

[Quantrill]

Ok regardless the temple is a copy of the one in heaven and dimensions were given by God. I assume those who put their hope in Torah rather than Christ will follow those instructions. I do not view the body of Christ as a copy of the temple in heaven. If the beast or anti Christ or lawless one is to reveal himself in that temple then I believe there will be a temple built in order to fulfill that prophecy. Clearly our atonement is found in Christ in that He entered the temple in Heaven by His blood. And when the sins have been forgiven there is no need for further sacrifices and offerings. The temple is not for our benefit.

Could you answer my question?

Are you saying the Rapture occurs after the Tribulation?

Quantrill

 

[Randy]

A simple yes or no. Are you saying the Rapture occurs after the Tribulation?

Quantrill

You don't understand "the last day"?
The gathering will be at the end of the end. The tribulation is ended with the sudden return of Christ on the last day. He pronounces judgment in favor of the saints. The body of Christ will go through the tribulation. No one is pulled out early. So on the day the tribulation is ended by Christ the gathering will take place. Those alive on earth on that day will be caught up so as to be clothed with immortality.

 

[Quantrill]

You don't understand "the last day"?
The gathering will be at the end of the end. The tribulation is ended with the sudden return of Christ on the last day. He pronounces judgment in favor of the saints. The body of Christ will go through the tribulation. No one is pulled out early. So on the day the tribulation is ended by Christ the gathering will take place. Those alive on earth on that day will be caught up so as to be clothed with immortality.

Thank you.

Therefore we need not look or anticipate the Rapture or the 2nd Coming of Christ because the Church will go through the Tribulation. We need only look for the anti-christ to be revealed, and the Temple is rebuilt. (Matt. 24:15) (Dan. 9:27) (Dan. 12:11)

Quantrill

 

[for_his_glory]

What is a 'week' in (Dan. 9:27). Is a week 3 and 1/2? Or, is a week 7?

Really, what did you study for 40 years? What books or commentaries?

Quantrill

The weeks are prophetic, not literal.

Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

The 70th seven began with Christ baptism in AD 29 and three years later at the end of the first half of the 70th seven sacrifices and offering ceased because Christ hung on the cross. From the giving of the law in 458BC when Ezra went to establish the law, or to rebuild the spiritual city right to the cross where the first 69 sevens. The 70th seven is from the time of the cross until Jesus comes back in the air to call his Bride home and for the overspreading of abominations he will make desolate, or make an end to all who would not believe.

A Day Equals One Year

The 70 week prophecy of Daniel 9:24 establishes a principle related to prophetic time that few completely understand. Virtually everyone acknowledges that the 70 weeks are not literally 70 weeks, but rather 70 weeks of years, or 490 years. The principle is that in Bible prophecy, you must substitute a period of a year in place of a day. This is the day=year principle. This equation is clearly established in scripture-

Numbers 14:34 after the number of the days in which ye searched the land, even forty days, each day for a year, shall ye bear your iniquities, even forty years, and ye shall know my breach of promise.

In this verse, a relationship between day and year is clear, each day will equate to a literal year. For the forty days that Israel spied in Canaan in unbelief, they would be punished by wandering forty years in the desert.

Ezekiel 4:6 and when thou hast accomplished them, lie again on thy right side, and thou shalt bear the iniquity of the house of Judah forty days: I have appointed thee each day for a year.

Here again, the equation is stated quite openly, a prophetic day represents a literal year. So to return to the 70 weeks of Daniel, you must first determine the number of days represented. Seventy weeks is 70 x 7 or 490 days, which will then equate to a literal 490 years in the fulfillment of the prophecy.

What I study comes straight from scripture, history and only those commentaries that I have tested to be true.

I'm not into those bandwagon teachings that began in the 1830's that mislead others as they line their pockets with others hard earned money.

 

[for_his_glory]

I could be wrong, but I don’t believe a third temple will be built in Jerusalem. In part, here is why.

Genesis 26 19 Isaac’s servants dug in the valley and discovered a well of fresh water there. 20 But the herders of Gerar quarreled with those of Isaac and said, “The water is ours!” So he named the well Esek,[c] because they disputed with him. 21 Then they dug another well, but they quarreled over that one also; so he named it Sitnah.[d] 22 He moved on from there and dug another well, and no one quarreled over it. He named it Rehoboth,[e] saying, “Now the Lordhas given us room and we will flourish in the land.”

The first well represents the first temple, Solomons Temple. Israel disputed over it and it was destroyed after Israel was divided.

The second Temple represents the second temple. It was disputed for several reasons, including Herod defiling it in many ways. It was destroyed.

The third temple represents the messianic era, the Christ himself because there is room for all.


English Standard Version
Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”

10 Jesus answered her, “If you knew the gift of God and who it is that asks you for a drink, you would have asked him and he would have given you living water.”
11 “Sir,” the woman said, “you have nothing to draw with and the well is deep. Where can you get this living water? 12 Are you greater than our father Jacob, who gave us the well and drank from it himself, as did also his sons and his livestock?”
13 Jesus answered, “Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again, 14 but whoever drinks the water I give them will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give them will become in them a spring of water welling up to eternal life.”

37 On the last day, the climax of the festival, Jesus stood and shouted to the crowds, “Anyone who is thirsty may come to me! 38 Anyone who believes in me may come and drink! For the Scriptures declare, ‘Rivers of living water will flow from his heart.’”[a] 39 (When he said “living water,” he was speaking of the Spirit, who would be given to everyone believing in him. But the Spirit had not yet been given,[b] because Jesus had not yet entered into his glory.)

What possible reason could there be for a third temple as God will never indwell it.

Act 7:44 Our fathers had the tabernacle of witness in the wilderness, as he had appointed, speaking unto Moses, that he should make it according to the fashion that he had seen.
Act 7:45 Which also our fathers that came after brought in with Jesus into the possession of the Gentiles, whom God drave out before the face of our fathers, unto the days of David;
Act 7:46 Who found favour before God, and desired to find a tabernacle for the God of Jacob.
Act 7:47 But Solomon built him an house.
Act 7:48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,
Act 7:49 Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?

1 Cor 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
1 Cor 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

 

[for_his_glory]

Many try to count days, hours, weeks and years, but God's timing is prophetic of all things which must come first before the return of Christ on the last day. Jesus has already given us what to watch for before that great and terrible day of the Lord. No one knows the day or the hour of His return as all is speculation and man's theories that do not add up to a hill of beans.

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

It can't get any clearer than what Jesus has already spoken. Don't know why it has to be so clouded up and trodden under.

 

[for_his_glory]

The word Rapture is not found in scripture as scripture calls it being caught up at the last trump, meaning the seventh trumpet of God, 1 Corinthians 15:51-58; 1Thessalonians 4:13-18, is explained in these verses if you read them for what they say. Rev 14:6-20 is the precursor for the catching up of the saints that makes up the true body of Christ. This is separating the wheat from the tares or in other words saints from sinners as sinners being those who have taken the mark of the beast in Rev 13. Christ is sending the angels to separate the wheat from the tares to protect His own in safety from the seven vial judgments that will take place, Rev 15:1-8; 16:1-21.

After mystery Babylon is revealed and then destroyed, Rev Chapters 17, 18, heaven rejoices her destruction as the beast and false prophet are cast into the lake of fire. It is not until we read in Rev 19 of Christ second coming as we, His Bride, have prepared ourselves, those in the grave and we that are still alive, to be caught up together to the clouds and given our new glorified bodies as we are arrayed in fine linen, clean and white then meet Christ in the air, 1Thessalonians 4:13-18. We are then joined to our Groom (Jesus) for the marriage supper (union) of the Lamb and His Bride. Fine linen means we are now arrayed in Gods righteousness.

Rev Chapters 19, 20 we the saints of God then come down to earth with Him as Jesus plants His feet on the Mount of Olives, Zechariah 14:4, to fight the final battle as He smites the nations and now rules over them. Jesus then binds Satan for a time (I don’t believe in a literal 1000 years, but only being symbolic in numbering) as then he will be loosed for awhile to try and attack the saints of God that are encamped in Gods protection. Jesus will then cast Satan into the lake of fire with the beast and the false prophet that has caused a great falling away, 2 Thessalonians 2:3. Then comes Gods final judgment on those who have rejected Christ and they are then cast into the lake of fire for their names were not found written in the Lambs Book of Life, Rev Chapter 20. Heaven and earth are restored and the New Jerusalem is ushered down and we are with the Lord for eternity.

Reference:
Genesis Chapter 49; Deuteronomy 31:28-30; Jeremiah 30:18-24; Daniel 12:1-4; Matthew 24:21-31; 25:31-33; John 6:37-40; Revelation 14:11-16

Reference to symbolic numbering of 1000) - Deuteronomy 7:9; 1Chronicles 16:15; Psalms 50:10; 90:4; 105:8 Ecc 6:6; 7:28; Daniel 5:1; 2Peter 3:8.​

The word Rapture is found nowhere in any scripture or in any concordances or Bible dictionaries. Some people have taken the transliterate word of the Greek, Harpazo, to mean Rapture, but the definition of this word is:
1. To seize, carry off by force, obtain by robbery
2. To seize on, claim for one's self eagerly
3. To snatch out or away

The Latin word rapio is where the word Rapture came from as it means to be seized or snatched up. No where in scripture does it say we will be seized or snatched up as we are obtained by robbery. We will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air after receiving our new glorified bodies that will be like Jesus and will evermore be with Him on the last day, John 6:40.

It's no secret quiet rapture as many teach as the voice and the sound of a trumpet during the last day will be very loud and every eye will see Jesus return so it doesn't sound like we are seized or snatched up from the earth as God sends His angels out to gather the saints of God from the four corners of the earth, Rev 1:7; 1Thessalonians 4:13-18; Matthew 24:29-31.

 

[King Dan of Great the 1st]

Correct me if I'm wrong but to have a temple there needs to be a Levite priest. Who in this world can prove they are a Levite?.