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Bible Study The Vicissitudes Of Life

iLOVE

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Luke 6:46-49 NKJV - Jesus said , it will be "vehement," i.e., strong with every attempt to destroy.

Build on the Rock
46 “But why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do the things which I say? 47 Whoever comes to Me, and hears My sayings and does them, I will show you whom he is like: 48 He is like a man building a house, who dug deep and laid the foundation on the rock. And when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently against that house, and could not shake it, for it was founded on the rock.[h] 49 But he who heard and did nothing is like a man who built a house on the earth without a foundation, against which the stream beat vehemently; and immediately it fell.[i] And the ruin of that house was great.”

According to the scripture, this will come no matter how much faith a Christian will have. Question? Is this a test for Christians? Did "Job" go through this vicissitude of life?
 
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I think ups and downs and life problems are universal. The sun shines and the rain pours on good and bad alike. Something like that. The difference, to me, is...those in the world cling ever more closely to worldly thoughts, worldly ideals, worldly wisdom. They become hardened in their sins, many of them sear the consciences. Christians...can grow in faith, goodness, and godliness through trials and tribulations.

Of course, its worth noting that even the most hardened sinner will come to Christ sometimes, often when hit with a crisis. Not everybody is raised Christian, so sometimes it takes "the school of hard knocks" to get people to The Cross. I'm just saying that for those who remain in and of the world, it seems (to me) that crises and problems generally lead to still more sin and more reliance on the world and worldly systems (philosophy, psychology, self-help, unbeliever friends, etc.).

Just my thoughts. :)
 

iLOVE

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If possible, please qualify all statements with scripture. Thank you.
 

Eugene

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Dear Brother iLOVE, Job came to the “Come to Jesus” moment of his life.

Job 3:3 Let the day perish wherein I was born, and the night in which it was said, There is a man child conceived.

He no longer went to the gate of the city (Job 29:7) even though God had proclaimed none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? (Job 1:8).

Here was a man that acted as a priest for others. (Job 1:5).

Why should this be? 1 Pet 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

Is there really purpose in sufferings with Christ? Rom 8:17. And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; IF SO be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

You speak of building a house (We are that house) on a rock, and the problem with many is that the foundation of that house is not Jesus, but their imagined works of righteousness. Job came to learn that in the all things work together for good of Rom 8:28.
 
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But don't the wicked/unbelievers suffer as well? Or is the spirit of Scripture that believers can expect suffering as part of God's work in our lives?
 

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But don't the wicked/unbelievers suffer as well? Or is the spirit of Scripture that believers can expect suffering as part of God's work in our lives?
The wicked do suffer as well, but we have an advocate as Job came to find that is closer than a brother (Pro 18:24) in his time of need. (Heb 4:16).

Even his supposed friends Eliphaz, Bildad, and Zophar became the trial in that righteous man Job's life after Satan has taken his family, but then in Job 36:2 Elihu also proceeded, and said, “Suffer me a little, and I will shew thee that I have yet to speak on God's behalf.”

Brother CE, we are God’s work in progress. This great trial of Job's faith produced something greater than he had, and yes it was God inspired. We read in 1 Peter 4:12, "Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:" You see, until Job suffered these things he was clueless to God's work in him, and on him.
 

iLOVE

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1 Pet 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
Amen. All faith will be tested. And greater faith will be tested more. All character will be refined (Isaiah 48:10 NLT, Psalm 105:19 NLT).
 

for_his_glory

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I think Paul said it well in these verses as to why we go through the things we go through

2Cor 3:5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
2Cor 12:9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

2Co 6:3 Giving no offence in any thing, that the ministry be not blamed:
2Co 6:4 But in all things approving ourselves as the ministers of God, in much patience, in afflictions, in necessities, in distresses,
2Co 6:5 In stripes, in imprisonments, in tumults, in labours, in watchings, in fastings;
2Co 6:6 By pureness, by knowledge, by longsuffering, by kindness, by the Holy Ghost, by love unfeigned,
2Co 6:7 By the word of truth, by the power of God, by the armour of righteousness on the right hand and on the left,
2Co 6:8 By honour and dishonour, by evil report and good report: as deceivers, and yet true;
2Co 6:9 As unknown, and yet well known; as dying, and, behold, we live; as chastened, and not killed;
2Co 6:10 As sorrowful, yet alway rejoicing; as poor, yet making many rich; as having nothing, and yet possessing all things.
 

for_his_glory

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Actually the wicked prosper while Christians suffer (Psalm 73:3-11)..
The wicked prosperity is temporal and will lead them to the lake of fire, but the righteous in Christ will suffer temporally and will be led to have all the riches in the Kingdom of heaven that are eternal.
 

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Luke 6:46-49 NKJV - Jesus said , it will be "vehement," i.e., strong with every attempt to destroy.

Build on the Rock
46 “But why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do the things which I say? 47 Whoever comes to Me, and hears My sayings and does them, I will show you whom he is like: 48 He is like a man building a house, who dug deep and laid the foundation on the rock. And when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently against that house, and could not shake it, for it was founded on the rock.[h] 49 But he who heard and did nothing is like a man who built a house on the earth without a foundation, against which the stream beat vehemently; and immediately it fell.[i] And the ruin of that house was great.”

According to the scripture, this will come no matter how much faith a Christian will have. Question? Is this a test for Christians? Did "Job" go through this vicissitude of life?
It's all in how the readers read the account.

Here is how it's stated in the KJV:

47 Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like:

Jesus then gives TWO analysis. Both sides of the equation apply to those who hear.

48 He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.

49 But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.

If people understood this, they would also understand why those things happened to Job as well. Because they heard BOTH sides of the equation of scripture, and applied it personally, as we are meant to. We are not supposed to only hear the side we like and presume that's us and the other account is about some other person. Matt. 4:4, Luke 4:4.

If you want a clearer explanation on "how" this is so, look at Paul. What you should see is ONE who hears and does and ONE who doesn't, and resists, both in ONE man on the surface sights.

2 Corinthians 12:
7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.
 

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Actually the wicked prosper while Christians suffer (Psalm 73:3-11)..
The wicked and the just are "bound" together:

Matthew 13:49
So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,

It is the same with the rich and poor, the wise and the fool, the beggar and the thief, etc etc. All these apply to the MAN, not one person and another person.

Habakkuk 1:4
Therefore the law is slacked, and judgment doth never go forth: for the wicked doth compass about the righteous; therefore wrong judgment proceedeth.
 

for_his_glory

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The wicked and the just are "bound" together:

Matthew 13:49
So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,

It is the same with the rich and poor, the wise and the fool, the beggar and the thief, etc etc. All these apply to the MAN, not one person and another person.

Habakkuk 1:4
Therefore the law is slacked, and judgment doth never go forth: for the wicked doth compass about the righteous; therefore wrong judgment proceedeth.
How can the wicked and the just be bound together when God tells us to not to be yoked with the wicked.

2Co 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
2Co 6:15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
2Co 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
2Co 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,
2Co 6:18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.
 

for_his_glory

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Jesus was talking to Peter as they stood on the physical rock in Caesarea Philippi which was a rock literally filled with niches for pagan idols, where ungodly values dominated. It was there that Jesus asked Peter who he thought Jesus was and it was only by Gods Spirit that revealed to Peter that Jesus was the Christ (Messiah), son of the living God, Matthew 16:13-18. Jesus said upon this rock (truth) I will build my Church and that the gates of hell will not prevail against it.

Are we not also to be that rock of witness (truth) as the Disciples were in their traveling witness of Christ as they taught others! So what has changed from this past time to the present is that many Christians compromise their own values and would never step foot into the gates of hell to confront the evil that is in this world. Many of our churches have become politically correct as to not step on any toes, because after all we do not want to offend anyone, but Jesus challenged his followers to be on the offense, to proclaim the truth without shame.

Gods true Church should become staging areas rather than fortresses; places that equip Gods people to confront a sinful world instead of hiding from it. Jesus knows that the pagan world will resist, but he challenges us to go there anyway, and to build his church in those very places that are most morally decayed. God’s word is never changing and will certainly never come back void.
 

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How can the wicked and the just be bound together when God tells us to not to be yoked with the wicked.
Read post #12 and see Paul's condition in the flesh. It should be quite obvious. We've already done this drill

Those who are IN TRUTH will hear and apply every Word of God to themselves, unto LIFE. Matt. 4:4, Luke 4:4 speak exactly to this matter.

The 'typical way' every believer hears is this: They hear only the good parts for themselves and they insulate themselves ENTIRELY from hearing and applying the things they DON'T CARE to hear and they deflect those Words to OTHERS. This is the commoner way, the way that the flesh reads the scriptures.

When the Glory of God appeared to the people of Israel at Mt. Horeb, they trembled and were warned that should they approach, they would DIE. They DREW BACK. And in that drawing back, they were given the LAW. There are some deep spiritual principles in this matter, which Paul speaks to directly in Gal. 4 of Mt. Sinai, which is ALSO Mt. Horeb.

The flesh man can NOT hear the Words of God that are meant to destroy the flesh. It is not possible for the flesh man to hear that side of the equations.

The flesh man can not ascend Mt. Horeb, where Gods Anger Resides, against same, because of lawlessness in the flesh, in the form of indwelling SIN.

Those in the Spirit WILL hear, and approach that side of Gods Ledgers, and see and HEAR, The Life of God. All the parts that the flesh man can not hear.
 

for_his_glory

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Read post #12 and see Paul's condition in the flesh. It should be quite obvious. We've already done this drill

Those who are IN TRUTH will hear and apply every Word of God to themselves, unto LIFE. Matt. 4:4, Luke 4:4 speak exactly to this matter.

The 'typical way' every believer hears is this: They hear only the good parts for themselves and they insulate themselves ENTIRELY from hearing and applying the things they DON'T CARE to hear and they deflect those Words to OTHERS. This is the commoner way, the way that the flesh reads the scriptures.

When the Glory of God appeared to the people of Israel at Mt. Horeb, they trembled and were warned that should they approach, they would DIE. They DREW BACK. And in that drawing back, they were given the LAW. There are some deep spiritual principles in this matter, which Paul speaks to directly in Gal. 4 of Mt. Sinai, which is ALSO Mt. Horeb.

The flesh man can NOT hear the Words of God that are meant to destroy the flesh. It is not possible for the flesh man to hear that side of the equations.

The flesh man can not ascend Mt. Horeb, where Gods Anger Resides, against same, because of lawlessness in the flesh, in the form of indwelling SIN.

Those in the Spirit WILL hear, and approach that side of Gods Ledgers, and see and HEAR, The Life of God. All the parts that the flesh man can not hear.
So you are saying we are all wicked, including Paul, because we are housed in this fleshly body, God forbid! When one lives in the flesh knowing nothing of Gods salvation then they have no fellowship with God. Those who are housed in this fleshly body that have had the inner man renewed by being Spiritually born again have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit have been risen with Christ and seek those things from above, John 3:3-7; Colossians Chapter 3. This is not to say Satan will not tempt us, but now we can recognize the temptations and resist them.
 

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Here, Paul approached Mt. Horeb, in the spiritual sense, and takes the DEATH that Gods Words bring to the flesh man.

Romans 7:
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

In this principle we see what God Does.

Deuteronomy 32:39
See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.

Paul took the ill side of the equations. Knowing that LIFE follows after.
 

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So you are saying we are all wicked, including Paul, because we are housed in this fleshly body, God forbid! When one lives in the flesh knowing nothing of Gods salvation then they have no fellowship with God. Those who are housed in this fleshly body that have had the inner man renewed by being Spiritually born again have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit have been risen with Christ and seek those things from above, John 3:3-7; Colossians Chapter 3. This is not to say Satan will not tempt us, but now we can recognize the temptations and resist them.
Most believers are busily engaged trying to make their indwelling sin behave, covering it up, providing excuses, claiming their sinless states, rather than taking on the death equations that are meant for the flesh in which it dwells, that GOD requires.

There is no way possible to make indwelling sin behave to Gods Satisfactions. The only path God accepts in this matter is DEATH.

And from that death springs HIS LIFE.
 

for_his_glory

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Most believers are busily engaged trying to make their indwelling sin behave, covering it up, providing excuses, claiming their sinless states, rather than taking on the death equations that are meant for the flesh in which it dwells, that GOD requires.

There is no way possible to make indwelling sin behave to Gods Satisfactions. The only path God accepts in this matter is DEATH.

And from that death springs HIS LIFE.
Romans 3:22-25; 2Corinthians 5:21; Romans 5:20, 21; 6:1-4 all comes against the theology you have been taught.
 

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