The war in heaven: Rev 12

[Dustoftheearth]

The war in heaven: Rev 12

Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven, Michael and his angels waging war with the dragon. The dragon and his angels waged war,
Rev 12:8 and they were not strong enough, and there was no longer a place found for them in heaven.
Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was thrown down, the serpent of old who is called the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.


It seems that some believe this war happened historically, when Christ ascended to Heaven.

If Satan and his angels are already cast down from the heavenly places, then how is it, that our struggle is against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places?


Eph 6:11 Put on the full armor of God, so that you will be able to stand firm against the schemes of the devil.
Eph 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places.
Eph 6:13 Therefore, take up the full armor of God, so that you will be able to resist in the evil day, and having done everything, to stand firm.

 

[King James]

From your revelation verses I'd say Satan and friends still have the ability to go to heaven although the earth is where they are mostly at, until that happens.

 

[John 8:32]

Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
Rev 12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

I think it will be quite evident when this occurs, persecution will take place on a scale we cannot imagine. It will reach such a crescendo that the church will be forced to flee into the "wilderness" to survive...

Rev 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

Tie in...

Rev 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Protection from the Great Tribulation 3-1/2 years before the return of Christ.

 

[whitestone]

Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

Looking at this from another angle....

"Rejoice ye heavens AND ye that dwell in them."​

​

It is the "heavens" that rejoice so just who are the heavens as well as who dwells in them?

Proverbs 2:21-22 For the upright shall dwell in the land, and the perfect shall remain in it. But the wicked shall be cut off from the earth, and the transgressors shall be rooted out of it.
​

There we are shown four groups in which man is separated for the judgment before the millennium.

1. The perfect: The elect, those already justified, glorified, etc. They ARE the heavens and the "shall remain."

2. The upright: The righteous people of the world, those misled perhaps but nevertheless they are good people. The "dwell in the land" because they must be tested again when the millennium ends. Their eternal place is not yet guaranteed.

3. The wicked: They're cut off from the upright/righteous. Perhaps they are with the group Satan gathers at the end of the millennium:

Revelation 20:7-9And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
​

4. The transgressors: They are rooted out. They are the tares of the world and I believe are slain when this age ends.....

Revelation 11:13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

​

As "the heavens" speaks of the elect, "the earth" is symbolic of good/righteous/upright humanity while "the sea" refers to...the wicked.

Luke 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;

​

The sea and waves roaring. Wickedness. Look at the world news...look at the local news.

 

[Dustoftheearth]

From your revelation verses I'd say Satan and friends still have the ability to go to heaven although the earth is where they are mostly at, until that happens.

Thanks KJ, but it does say that "and there was no longer a place found for them in heaven"

Paul quotes that they are in the heavenly places

 

[Dustoftheearth]

Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
Rev 12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

I think it will be quite evident when this occurs, persecution will take place on a scale we cannot imagine. It will reach such a crescendo that the church will be forced to flee into the "wilderness" to survive...

Rev 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

Tie in...

Rev 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Protection from the Great Tribulation 3-1/2 years before the return of Christ.

Thanks John 8:32

I am still not sure about pre trib or pre wrath.
Although I lean more towards pre wrath, I cannot discard pre trib.

Rev 3:10 speaks of the trials that are to come upon the whole earth. What about the tribulation of the saints?

Rev 7:13 Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, "These who are clothed in the white robes, who are they, and where have they come from?"
Rev 7:14 I said to him, "My lord, you know." And he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Rev 13:7 It was also given to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them, and authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation was given to him.
Rev 13:8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slain.
Rev 13:9 If anyone has an ear, let him hear.
Rev 13:10 If anyone is destined for captivity, to captivity he goes; if anyone kills with the sword, with the sword he must be killed. Here is the perseverance and the faith of the saints.

 

[whitestone]

Thanks John 8:32

I am still not sure about pre trib or pre wrath.
Although I lean more towards pre wrath, I cannot discard pre trib.

There is the wrath of God and the time of tribulation. They are two different events....

Matthew24:29-30 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
​

The tribulation speaks of Satan's time...a time of great deception. THEN, after the tribulation, Jesus comes and with Him....the wrath of God on those that allow themselves to be deceived.

Rev 3:10 speaks of the trials that are to come upon the whole earth. What about the tribulation of the saints?

Rev 7:13 Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, "These who are clothed in the white robes, who are they, and where have they come from?"
Rev 7:14 I said to him, "My lord, you know." And he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Rev 13:7 It was also given to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them, and authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation was given to him.
Rev 13:8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slain.
Rev 13:9 If anyone has an ear, let him hear.
Rev 13:10 If anyone is destined for captivity, to captivity he goes; if anyone kills with the sword, with the sword he must be killed. Here is the perseverance and the faith of the saints.

That passage testifies to the fact that we will all be here for the great tribulation but not the wrath of God.

 

[iLOVE]

The war in heaven: Rev 12

Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven, Michael and his angels waging war with the dragon. The dragon and his angels waged war,
Rev 12:8 and they were not strong enough, and there was no longer a place found for them in heaven.
Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was thrown down, the serpent of old who is called the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.


It seems that some believe this war happened historically, when Christ ascended to Heaven.

If Satan and his angels are already cast down from the heavenly places, then how is it, that our struggle is against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places?


Eph 6:11 Put on the full armor of God, so that you will be able to stand firm against the schemes of the devil.
Eph 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places.
Eph 6:13 Therefore, take up the full armor of God, so that you will be able to resist in the evil day, and having done everything, to stand firm.

Satan is present in the garden, but he is already fallen. Satan is allowed to do only that which God has planned for His glory and our good.

 

[iLOVE]

From your revelation verses I'd say Satan and friends still have the ability to go to heaven although the earth is where they are mostly at, until that happens.

Satan is only allowed in heaven if God summons Him. He must appear! The story of "Job" reveals this also it reveals "Why" things happen".

 

[DARRELL DUNN]

THE LAST VERSES IN REV 6 WHEN THE HEAVENS ARE SHAKEN AND THE STARS FALL FROM HEAVEN IS THE BATTLE IN HEAVEN AND THE STARS ARE THE FALLEN ANGLES BEING CAST DOWN.SATAN HAS NOT BEEN CAST DOWN YET.

 

[iLOVE]

THE LAST VERSES IN REV 6 WHEN THE HEAVENS ARE SHAKEN AND THE STARS FALL FROM HEAVEN IS THE BATTLE IN HEAVEN AND THE STARS ARE THE FALLEN ANGLES BEING CAST DOWN.SATAN HAS NOT BEEN CAST DOWN YET.

You must read the bible in chronological order not beginning to end to understand events occurred in real time.

 

[Sinthesis]

THE LAST VERSES IN REV 6 WHEN THE HEAVENS ARE SHAKEN AND THE STARS FALL FROM HEAVEN IS THE BATTLE IN HEAVEN AND THE STARS ARE THE FALLEN ANGLES BEING CAST DOWN.SATAN HAS NOT BEEN CAST DOWN YET.

That depends on what you mean by 'cast down', among other things.

Luk 10:18 - And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.​

 

[JLB]

That depends on what you mean by 'cast down', among other things.

Luk 10:18 - And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.​

Yes Jesus saw the future.


JLB

 

[John 8:32]

There is the wrath of God and the time of tribulation. They are two different events....

Matthew24:29-30 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
​

The tribulation speaks of Satan's time...a time of great deception. THEN, after the tribulation, Jesus comes and with Him....the wrath of God on those that allow themselves to be deceived.





That passage testifies to the fact that we will all be here for the great tribulation but not the wrath of God.

Technically, the Tribulation lasts for 2-1/2 years followed by the one year period known as the Day of the Lord. In general usage, the entire 3-1/2 years is called the Great Tribulation.

 

[Sinthesis]

THE LAST VERSES IN REV 6 WHEN THE HEAVENS ARE SHAKEN AND THE STARS FALL FROM HEAVEN IS THE BATTLE IN HEAVEN AND THE STARS ARE THE FALLEN ANGLES BEING CAST DOWN.SATAN HAS NOT BEEN CAST DOWN YET.

That depends on what you mean by 'cast down', among other things.

Luk 10:18 - And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.​

Yes Jesus saw the future.


JLB

And uses the past tense to describe it? The use of the past tense (in English) works in context if you understand that Jesus is illustrating a type/antitype structure where the effective work of His pre-resurrection proxies (the 70) foreshadows the effectivness of the work of His post-resurrection Church.

 

[enlightened]

The war in heaven: Rev 12

Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven, Michael and his angels waging war with the dragon. The dragon and his angels waged war,
Rev 12:8 and they were not strong enough, and there was no longer a place found for them in heaven.
Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was thrown down, the serpent of old who is called the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.


It seems that some believe this war happened historically, when Christ ascended to Heaven.

If Satan and his angels are already cast down from the heavenly places, then how is it, that our struggle is against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places?


Eph 6:11 Put on the full armor of God, so that you will be able to stand firm against the schemes of the devil.
Eph 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places.
Eph 6:13 Therefore, take up the full armor of God, so that you will be able to resist in the evil day, and having done everything, to stand firm.

I believe this is the same event as Adam being driven from the Garden. And it isn't 'heavenly places', its 'high places' (KJV), which are the religious temples according to the OT. So the verse is describing serpent preachers!

 

[n2thelight]

Revelation 12:7 "And there was war in heaven: Mi'-cha-el and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,,"

Revelation 12:8 "And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven."

This is the time of the sounding of the fifth trumpet, when Satan and his fallen angels are released upon the earth for the final five months period, spoken of in Revelation 9:5, 10. Satan will spend five months here on earth deceiving all mankind, then go to the pit for the thousand years. After that thousand years, Satan [not his fallen angels] will be released for a short period, then go to perdition [perish]. Once Satan is kicked out of heaven, he will not be allowed to return. Today Satan is in heaven accusing the saints before the Lord.

If you were ever confused who Satan is, John calls him by the names he used while playing his different roles on earth. The "dragon" is Satan's role in that first earth age, when one third of all of God's children followed him. Satan's evil spirit is allowed on earth now, along with his demons. However, you haven't seen Satan in person yet. Satan and his angels, both physically and bodily, will come to earth just as they did in Genesis 6.

 

[Dustoftheearth]

I believe this is the same event as Adam being driven from the Garden.

And with respect, I believe you are wrong.

And it isn't 'heavenly places', its 'high places' (KJV),

G2032
ἐπουράνιος
epouranios
ep-oo-ran'-ee-os
From G1909 and G3772; above the sky: - celestial, (in) heaven (-ly), high.

which are the religious temples according to the OT. So the verse is describing serpent preachers!

against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places

I very much doubt that a (so called) serpent preacher, could or would be classed a 'spiritual'

"For our struggle is not against flesh and blood"

Do you think that they [serpent preachers] are somehow not 'flesh and blood'?

 

[enlightened]

Truly we are not wrestling against flesh and blood, for we are not in a physical struggle; rather, we wrestle against bad doctrines and false teachers! Can you prove Adam is not the devil with absolute certainty?

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

It seems that some believe this war happened historically, when Christ ascended to Heaven.

No, it is a recounting of the war in heaven pre-history, at which time Satan and his rebellions minions were cast out. It is my contention that it happened just minutes before the snake confronted Eve in the garden, though I have no Scriptural basis for it. Call it a "gut feeling." It makes sense, though. Satan is defeated in his rebellion, cast down to Earth, and immediately determines how he might undermine God's creation.

If Satan and his angels are already cast down from the heavenly places, then how is it, that our struggle is against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places?

There are three heavens, are there not? The sky, intergalactic space which starts Just outside our atmosphere, and God's heaven. Those spiritual forces can operate in the first two. That is what Paul refers to in that passage.