This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world...

[Stormcrow]

In the meantime,let me show you what the verse means..............

I'm not interested in opinion. Thanks anyway.

 

[n2thelight]

I'm not interested in opinion. Thanks anyway.

Still didn't answer the question........

 

[BornAgain]

And then the end will come.

"This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come. Matthew 24:14 (NASB)

Some say the "end" hasn't come because this gospel hasn't been preached in the whole world. Paul writes otherwise:

First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, because your faith is being proclaimed throughout the whole world. Romans 1:8 (NASB)

but now is manifested, and by the Scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the eternal God, has been made known to all the nations, leading to obedience of faith; Romans 16:26 (NASB)

the gospel which has come to you, just as in all the world Colossians 1:5-6 (NASB)

the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven Colossians 1:23 (NASB)

I wonder how Paul, called by Christ Himself, could've been so wrong.

Paul was not wrong, if he was the Bible would be wrong.

 

[Stormcrow]

Still didn't answer the question........

You've amply demonstrated that you're not interested in answers, only argument. 2

 

[n2thelight]

You've amply demonstrated that you're not interested in answers, only argument. 2

I thought we were having a discussion.............I don't argue,not my style!!!!!

 

[Stormcrow]

Paul was not wrong, if he was the Bible would be wrong.

Hey BA...

Hopefully you've read through the rest of this thread and see that I'm not the one suggesting Paul was wrong. However, it's clear that for futurism to be true, futurists must change the plain meaning of the words of Paul and Christ to arrive at an unbiblical doctrine that otherwise couldn't be supported.

And - as you might have seen by now - futurists in this thread have done just that: changed the plain meaning of the words of Christ and Paul into something they never said or wrote.

 

[JLB]

Hey BA...

Hopefully you've read through the rest of this thread and see that I'm not the one suggesting Paul was wrong. However, it's clear that for futurism to be true, futurists must change the plain meaning of the words of Paul and Christ to arrive at an unbiblical doctrine that otherwise couldn't be supported.

And - as you might have seen by now - futurists in this thread have done just that: changed the plain meaning of the words of Christ and Paul into something they never said or wrote.

Would you share with us how those scriptures you referred to compare with What Paul and Jesus said -

First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, because your faith is being proclaimed throughout the whole world. Romans 1:8 (NASB)

but now is manifested, and by the Scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the eternal God, has been made known to all the nations, leading to obedience of faith; Romans 16:26 (NASB)

the gospel which has come to you, just as in all the world Colossians 1:5-6 (NASB)

the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven Colossians 1:23 (NASB)

I think we can all agree that the gospel message was going out to all the world at the time Paul wrote his letters to the church's he was called to.


Scriptures that Paul wrote -

19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men the most pitiable. 20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ's at His coming.

Paul himself says we are to look to the next life after the resurrection.

Paul says the resurrection of all those who are Christ's will take place when He returns.

Paul goes on to explain in his letter -


51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall allbe changed-- 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: "Death is swallowed up in victory."



I believe we all can agree the moment we believe the Gospel we are born again we have overcome death, however Paul teaches that when we receive our immortal, incorruptible bodies is when this scripture will be fulfilled by all of us -"Death is swallowed up in victory." .



Paul teaches this will take place when Jesus Christ returns!


Jesus teaches - When He returns all the nations will be gathered before Him.


31 "When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats.

Jesus says when He returns -


7 Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen. 8 "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End," says the Lord, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty."

If every eye will see Him and all the tribes will mourn, then surely you would agree that if this happened in 70 AD, then all the scribes at that time including Josephus would both record and verbally pass down from generation to generation the event of every eye seeing Jesus Christ as Messiah and Lord.

No one has ever presented one document or writing from Josephus or any Scribe that pertains to seeing The Lord Jesus Christ coming in power and great glory!

Please share with us your findings on this matter.


Thanks JLB

 

[Stormcrow]

Would you share with us how those scriptures you referred to compare with What Paul and Jesus said -

I think we can all agree that the gospel message was going out to all the world at the time Paul wrote his letters to the church's he was called to.

Scriptures that Paul wrote -

19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men the most pitiable. 20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ's at His coming.

Paul himself says we are to look to the next life after the resurrection.

Paul says the resurrection of all those who are Christ's will take place when He returns.

Paul goes on to explain in his letter -

51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall allbe changed-- 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: "Death is swallowed up in victory."

I believe we all can agree the moment we believe the Gospel we are born again we have overcome death, however Paul teaches that when we receive our immortal, incorruptible bodies is when this scripture will be fulfilled by all of us -"Death is swallowed up in victory." .

Paul teaches this will take place when Jesus Christ returns!

Jesus teaches - When He returns all the nations will be gathered before Him.

31 "When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats.

Jesus says when He returns -

7 Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen. 8 "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End," says the Lord, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty."

If every eye will see Him and all the tribes will mourn, then surely you would agree that if this happened in 70 AD, then all the scribes at that time including Josephus would both record and verbally pass down from generation to generation the event of every eye seeing Jesus Christ as Messiah and Lord.

No one has ever presented one document or writing from Josephus or any Scribe that pertains to seeing The Lord Jesus Christ coming in power and great glory!

Please share with us your findings on this matter.
Thanks JLB

My "findings" have been shared all over this board in more than 2,600 posts, and I have addressed these issues with you several times over. Your incessant appeals to be shown things you continue to refuse to accept are both tiresome and irksome.

Your inability (or refusal?) to separate symbolic and metaphoric language from that which is clearly literal keeps you asking the same error-prone rhetorical questions over and over again. I'm not your teacher and you're not my student.

 

[JLB]

My "findings" have been shared all over this board in more than 2,600 posts, and I have addressed these issues with you several times over. Your incessant appeals to be shown things you continue to refuse to accept are both tiresome and irksome.

Your inability (or refusal?) to separate symbolic and metaphoric language from that which is clearly literal keeps you asking the same error-prone rhetorical questions over and over again. I'm not your teacher and you're not my student.

When Jesus began to use Parabolic Imagery He let us know with this phrase -

You Presume what ever doesn't fit your Theory as being Symbolic when clearly it is not.

32 "Now learn this parable from the fig tree:

The Parabolic Imagery starts in verse 32 with these words NOW HEAR THIS PARABLE!

Look at the verse immediately before verse 32 -

32. And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Where is the symbolism in that? There's not!

Your excuse does not line up with the word because it is "another Gospel" !

JLB

 

[n2thelight]

My "findings" have been shared all over this board in more than 2,600 posts, and I have addressed these issues with you several times over. Your incessant appeals to be shown things you continue to refuse to accept are both tiresome and irksome.

Your inability (or refusal?) to separate symbolic and metaphoric language from that which is clearly literal keeps you asking the same error-prone rhetorical questions over and over again. I'm not your teacher and you're not my student.

Contrary to what you may think,everytime you post something in these threads,you are teaching someone.......And you as well as I and everybody on here will be judged by what we say regarding the Word of God!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Stormcrow]

The signal-to-noise ratio just improved exponentially in here.

 

[Lloyd]

Would you share with us how those scriptures you referred to compare with What Paul and Jesus said -


I think we can all agree that the gospel message was going out to all the world at the time Paul wrote his letters to the church's he was called to.


Scriptures that Paul wrote -

19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men the most pitiable. 20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ's at His coming.

Paul himself says we are to look to the next life after the resurrection.

Paul says the resurrection of all those who are Christ's will take place when He returns.

Paul goes on to explain in his letter -


51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall allbe changed-- 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: "Death is swallowed up in victory."



I believe we all can agree the moment we believe the Gospel we are born again we have overcome death, however Paul teaches that when we receive our immortal, incorruptible bodies is when this scripture will be fulfilled by all of us -"Death is swallowed up in victory." .



Paul teaches this will take place when Jesus Christ returns!


Jesus teaches - When He returns all the nations will be gathered before Him.


31 "When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats.

Jesus says when He returns -


7 Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen. 8 "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End," says the Lord, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty."

If every eye will see Him and all the tribes will mourn, then surely you would agree that if this happened in 70 AD, then all the scribes at that time including Josephus would both record and verbally pass down from generation to generation the event of every eye seeing Jesus Christ as Messiah and Lord.

No one has ever presented one document or writing from Josephus or any Scribe that pertains to seeing The Lord Jesus Christ coming in power and great glory!

Please share with us your findings on this matter.


Thanks JLB

Amen bother!

Every eye shall see him, yet we don't have any historical records to support it? Not just 1 or 2 people, or even 1000, but EVERY eye shall see him, and we don't have anything written to suggest this happened?

We have written the birth of Jesus, the life of Jesus, the death of Jesus, the resurrection of Jesus, but for some reason, no-one wanted to pen down his second coming?

It might be a wild assumption, but I don't think it's happened yet...

 

[Stormcrow]

Every eye shall see him, yet we don't have any historical records to support it? Not just 1 or 2 people, or even 1000, but EVERY eye shall see him, and we don't have anything written to suggest this happened?

Do you see a Jewish Temple standing on top of Mount Zion?

The sign that the Son of Man was in heaven was the destruction of Jerusalem by the armies of Rome, whom He used to judge the city and its people.

You should try understanding this material instead of parroting the gross misunderstanding of others.

 

[Sinthesis]

Of course the rebuilt temple is not on mount Zion, but to the north of the city of Jerusalem. It takes an understanding of symbolism to make sense of this fact. Have fun.

 

[Lloyd]

Do you see a Jewish Temple standing on top of Mount Zion?

The sign that the Son of Man was in heaven was the destruction of Jerusalem by the armies of Rome, whom He used to judge the city and its people.

You should try understanding this material instead of parroting the gross misunderstanding of others.

So, I'll ask again. Where is the documented evidence of this fact? I guess no-one wanted to pen down or even pass down verbally such an event?

3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

10But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

 

[Stormcrow]

So, I'll ask again. Where is the documented evidence of this fact?

You're looking for written proof of a spiritual event (parousia; His "presence") manifested in the physical destruction of Jerusalem: you can start with Josephus then move on to Tacitus, Tertullian, and Eusebius, to name a few.

His presence was manifest in the actions of Rome, which He used to judge Jerusalem; the same way the Father used Assyria to judge Israel and Babylon to judge Judah.

The fact that you're looking for His physical return simply illustrates how little you understand the workings of God in either the OT or the new.

 

[JLB]

You're looking for written proof of a spiritual event (parousia; His "presence") manifested in the physical destruction of Jerusalem: you can start with Josephus then move on to Tacitus, Tertullian, and Eusebius, to name a few.

His presence was manifest in the actions of Rome, which He used to judge Jerusalem; the same way the Father used Assyria to judge Israel and Babylon to judge Judah.

The fact that you're looking for His physical return simply illustrates how little you understand the workings of God in either the OT or the new.

You err not knowing the word.

And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.

The Lord will not rely on "the actions of the Romans" for His holy Word to be fulfilled!

"When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats.

He Himself will return physically. Do deny this simple truth is to teach "another gospel"!




JLB

 

[Hammer]

And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.

Do you take that literally? You seem to want to take glaringly symbolic expression literally? Do you think Jesus will physically return and the suck up the antichrist guy by inhaling him with his mouth?

The Lord will not rely on "the actions of the Romans" for His holy Word to be fulfilled!

You mean like the Romans would never carry out the crucifixion because the Lord wouldn't rely on the Romans for his holy Word to be fulfilled?

JLB, are you trying to make Futurism look silly?

 

[JLB]

Do you take that literally? You seem to want to take glaringly symbolic expression literally? Do you think Jesus will physically return and the suck up the antichrist guy by inhaling him with his mouth?



You mean like the Romans would never carry out the crucifixion because the Lord wouldn't rely on the Romans for his holy Word to be fulfilled?

JLB, are you trying to make Futurism look silly?

Coming in Power and glory! Literally!

The Brightness of His coming. Literal!


When the scripture clearly says He will destroy him by the brightness of His coming, then it clearly means He does not need flesh and blood people to fulfill His word.

The scriptures concerning His first coming were fulfilled, LITERALLY.

The scriptures concerning the destruction of the temple were fulfilled, LITERALLY.

The scriptures concerning His Second coming will be fulfilled, LITERALLY.

You twist the scriptures to your own destruction!

15 and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation--as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, 16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.


JLB

 

[Hitch]

Coming in Power and glory! Literally!

The Brightness of His coming. Literal!


When the scripture clearly says He will destroy him by the brightness of His coming, then it clearly means He does not need flesh and blood people to fulfill His word.

The scriptures concerning His first coming were fulfilled, LITERALLY.

So his name isnt Jesus at all it is Immanuel... Perhaps you referred to the resultant reconstruction of Dave's Tabernachle? Maybe the building of a temple with living stones? Who peirced him ?? Scattering sheep? ..............

The scriptures concerning the destruction of the temple were fulfilled, LITERALLY.

The scriptures concerning His Second coming will be fulfilled, LITERALLY. Well if the record above is any indication ,,,

You twist the scriptures to your own destruction!

15 and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation--as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, 16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.


JLB

Including Paul's condemnation of his days literalists doesnt really help you out much.