Jim Parker
Member
I really don't know if you are being serious or just pulling our chain.
I hope you are pulling our (collective) chain.
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[__ Science __ ] This is Always Interesting
- Thread starter Luminous_Rose
- Start date
I hope you are pulling our (collective) chain.
Razeontherock
Member
Please do not go around taking offense when you don't understand something. I identified your comment here as a formal logical fallacy known as an argument from ignorance. Here's what it means:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance
That's what you've done.
Further, with your long list of demands you are dismissing a great deal of what God has told us about Himself:
Proverbs 25:2 "It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter"
He doesn't give us all the answers, He gives us enough to make us stop and think. Why was Moses chosen? He observed the burning bush long enough to recognize something unusual was going on. God still chooses people like that today. You're not going to develop that character on a website focused on proof texting, which is never how Biblical Truth is revealed
Jim Parker
Member
That's because the Bible is not a natural science text book.
I have been investigating and researching the real state of our earth for quite a while now.
I can honestly say that, if you use the biblical scriptures, God is telling us that it is anything but a spinning ball moving at all in any way.
As for "arguments from ignorance"... this could easily be applied to the 50% - 60% of the people, in USA (according to surveys) that still thing the earth could be a globe. (Ya, surprize to you and me, 40% of people surveyed believe that the earth may not be a globe)
You do realize that the globe model is, and I quote from your definition a concept that fit this, It asserts that a proposition is true because it has not yet been proven false or a proposition is false because it has not yet been proven true.
Your one verse "Proverbs 25:2" may or not be speaking of the model of the earth. Even if it is, it, again, can be applied to either model. So, you are left at a loss.
There are, as I said, about 300 scriptures that imply that the earth is not a spinning ball. Not one to even insinuate or hint at it being a moving, spinning, orbiting mass.
This, along with the fact that, on the lake I grew up on, we see too far, lead me to investigate this seemingly ludicrous concept of FE.
I love this "Coriolis" effect approach.
The "Coriolis" effect that influences bullets and other things but has absolutely no effect on helicopters and air liners.
Face it. If a 180 grain projectile, moving at a muzzle velocity of over 2000 feet per second, is affected by the earth spinning beneath it, after it leaves the barrel, during the brief time it spends aloft......WHY, then, Does it have absolutely no effect on a multi tonne air frame moving at 200 - 400 mph when it leaves the runway, when it spends hours above said spinning ball?
You cannot have it both ways. The bullet is too fast, spends too little time in the air and travels too short a distance to be affected..... compared to the slower, heavier airframe that travels significantly further distances,and spends significantly more time above the earth as it rotates below it.
As for wind currents. You may, or may not, be surprised at the air and wind flow over the earth when it is shown on a FE model. It actually makes more sense than it does when wrapped around a globe.
I never understood how saying "the bible isn't a science book" had any weight in any argument.
What does that even mean???
The bible is not a medical textbook either. Yet it tells us that people needed to wash their hands with running water to avoid getting sick, to defecate in a hole and cover it up to avoid contamination problems, and that a man was brought back to life by Jesus, a little girl was healed from miles away, to take wine for your stomach sake, cleanse with hyssop and that Christ was hung on a cross until dead and rose again.
So, if you read a biography on a man and in that biography it tells of his love of fishing and the methods he used to successfully catch fish... you shouldn't believe that these same methods would work for you, or were true in any way because the biography isn't a fishing text book?
The whole idea is preposterous and makes no logical sense.
The creator of this whole universe has left us His text and instruction and messages to us in His own inspired words.
However, when He tells us of things that deal with science or can be applied to the scientific fields of this earthly world...His truth somehow has no weight because "it's not a science text book"?
Sorry, but this "go to" statement, used by many, has no logic or pulls no weight with me.
Either the information in the Bible is true, and I mean all of it, or none of it can be considered as truth with any confidence.
Here are some scientific concepts that come from your "not a science text book" called the Bible.
Creation is made of particles, indiscernible to our eyes (Hebrews 11:3)
The Bible specifies the perfect dimensions for a stable water vessel (Genesis 6:15).
When dealing with disease, clothes and body should be washed under running water (Leviticus 15:13).
Sanitation industry birthed (Deuteronomy 23:12-13)
Oceans contain springs (Job 38:16).
There are mountains on the bottom of the ocean floor (Jonah 2:5-6)
Blood is the source of life and health (Leviticus 17:11; 14)
Our bodies are made from the dust of the ground (Genesis 2:7; 3:19). Scientists have discovered that the human body is comprised of some 28 base and trace elements – all of which are found in the earth.
Light can be divided (Job 38:24).
Barbarian
Member
It does. The course has to be repeatedly corrected to maintain a proper bearing with respect to the surface of the Earth over a long flight.
I merely note that prevailing winds and hurricanes behave as though the laws of physics apply on a rotating sphere. Here's your chance to show us a rigorous demonstration of the way physics would make them work on a flat, stationary Earth.
Show us what you have.
I know you want to believe it. Show us.
Barbarian
Member
This list is a foolish attempt by men to justify God's word as science. Let me show you why this is not a good idea:
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Hbr&c=11&v=3&t=NKJV#top
It doesn't say anything about particles. Men added that to justify their own ideas.
Show me, with your calculations, why these are "perfect dimensions."
Someone notices that running water cleans better than standing water. Why is that surprising? People then may not have known everything we know, but they weren't stupid.
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Deu&c=23&v=12&t=NKJV#12
Build the outhouse well away from your tent. You think that was hard to figure out?
Actually, they don't.
A spring is any natural situation where water flows from an aquifer to the Earth's surface. It is a component of the hydrosphere.
Oceans have volcanic vents.
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Jon&c=2&v=5&t=NKJV#top
Since anyone noticing islands would realize that they must have a base on the sea floor, I'm puzzled as to why you think it's surprising that the Hebrews would know this.
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Lev&c=17&v=14&t=NKJV#14
Actually, it doesn't say "health" or anything like it. And we now know that life is in each individual cell, not in the blood.
This is another case of men adding things to scripture to fit their own needs.
People observed bodies decaying back to dust. How is that a revelation?
You've spent a lot of time messing with incidentals at the expense of the message He's actually giving us.
Razeontherock
Member
Scripture speaks to no such thing. Please familiarize yourself with the terms eisegesis, and replace that with exegesis.
Our Bible is about God's relationship with our species.
Jack, we've ascended above the Earth high enough to see it, and orbited around it a bunch of times. We have nearly 4,000 satellites in orbit.
The point you are trying to make is not something that is left for us to wonder about.
Try the ocean sometime!
Papa Zoom
CF Ambassador
We sure do spend a lot of time chasing our tails. The earth is flat. I know. I've been to Iowa. It's also made of corn fields (same reason).
You'd think that with our advanced technology and mathematical reasoning that we'd know with certainty the shape of the earth. How is it possible that the earth could be flat and yet the other planets are not? The earth is the shape of my head with the back of my head representative if Iowa (the flat part, I think the doc either over used the forceps or dropped me).
Silliness aside, I think the point of the OP is that the Bible is consistent (meaning it doesn't contradict) with current scientific understandings. It doesn't claim for example that the earth sits on the back of a turtle.
That said, it's not the purpose of the Bible to explain things in a scientific manner. Some things are explained phenomenologically. It's fun to think about but you can only go so far with it.
You'd think that with our advanced technology and mathematical reasoning that we'd know with certainty the shape of the earth. How is it possible that the earth could be flat and yet the other planets are not? The earth is the shape of my head with the back of my head representative if Iowa (the flat part, I think the doc either over used the forceps or dropped me).
Silliness aside, I think the point of the OP is that the Bible is consistent (meaning it doesn't contradict) with current scientific understandings. It doesn't claim for example that the earth sits on the back of a turtle.
That said, it's not the purpose of the Bible to explain things in a scientific manner. Some things are explained phenomenologically. It's fun to think about but you can only go so far with it.
Razeontherock
Member
It's also fun trying to say phenomenologically
Barbarian
Member
It's mostly rolling hills, especially in the eastern part. I know this from experience. When I was 16, I and a few other fools on a bet, walked from the river to the county seat and back (about 50 miles), in subzero weather. Those hills were a bother, trust me.
Otherwise, you're spot on.
Papa Zoom
CF Ambassador
Ouch. Yeah I picked Iowa because my mom was born there and I spend a lot of time there. It did seem pretty flat to me when I was small. Now the corn part I lived and remember well. They had corn fests in the summer and we'd get free corn on the cob and other goodies. (well, maybe mom paid for it and I just didn't know about that part).
Also true is the flat part of my head. My daughter likes to tease me about getting dropped on that part. I'm not so sure it didn't develop later by getting smacked so much by mom and dad for my rambunctious behaviors!
As for the cold and walking in it, not fun. But that's what we did when we were 16 - dumb stuff we can talk about later and laugh over.
Razeontherock
Member
I'm ROTFL as I picture you all singing Take Me To The River by the Talking Heads as you make the last leg of the journey
Papa Zoom
CF Ambassador
Darn, Iowa isn't even on the list! https://www.redbull.com/us-en/mysterious-places-part-5
10 flattest places on earth. (my head is listed however......)
10 flattest places on earth. (my head is listed however......)
Jim Parker
Member
AH! That's the problem.
The information in the Bible is about God's self revelation to man.
The information in a science book has to do with trying to understand God's creation.
They are two very different topics.
Conflating them is absolutely going to create confusion.
Razeontherock
Member
Yep, the flattest in the US
jasonc
Member
parts of my state are. where I live is but north of Orlando it has rolling hills. well near Lakeland it is like that. I have to use topos to find old things. the ww2 one shows marshes where I didn't know and depressions.i should try to find one and post that link. I know the roads and so forth and could make out where they were.