[__ Science __ ] This is Always Interesting

[Luminous_Rose]

The Bible:
The earth is a sphere
(Isaiah 40:22).

Science Now:
The earth is a sphere.

Science Then:
The earth was a flat disk.

------------------------------

The Bible:
Incalculable number of stars
(Jeremiah 33:22).

Science Now:
Incalculable number of stars

Science Then:
Only 1,100 stars.

------------------------------

The Bible:
Free float of earth in space
(Job 26:7).

Science Now:
Free float of earth in space.

Science Then:
Earth sat on a large animal.

------------------------------

The Bible:
Creation made of invisible
elements (Hebrews 11:3).

Science Now:
Creation made of invisible
elements (atoms).

Science Then:
Science was ignorant on
the subject.

------------------------------

The Bible:
Each star is different
(1 Corinthians 15:41).

Science Now:
Each star is different.

Science Then:
All stars were the same.

------------------------------

The Bible:
Light moves
(Job 38:19,20).

Science Now:
Light moves

Science Then:
Light was fixed in place.

------------------------------

The Bible:
Air has weight
(Job 28:25)

Science Now:
Air has weight

Science Then:
Air was weightless.

------------------------------

The Bible:
Winds blow in cyclones
(Ecclesiastes 1:6)

Science Now:
Winds blow in cyclones

Science Then:
Winds blew straight.

------------------------------

The Bible:
Blood is the source of life
and health
(Leviticus 17:11).

Science Now:
Blood is the source of life
and health.

Science Then:
Sick people must be bled.

------------------------------

The Bible:
Ocean floor contains deep
valleys and mountains
(2 Samuel 22:16;
Jonah 2:6).

Science Now:
Ocean floor contains deep
valleys and mountains.

Science Then:
The ocean floor was flat.

------------------------------

The Bible:
Ocean contains springs
(Job 38:16).

Science Now:
Ocean contains springs

Science Then:
Ocean fed only by rivers
and rain.

------------------------------

The Bible:
When dealing with disease,
hands should be washed
under running water
(Leviticus 15:13).

Science Now:
When dealing with disease,
hands should be washed
under running water.

Science Then:
Hands washed in still water.

-Courtesy of livingwaters.com

 

[Tessa]

Very interesting.
I didn't know that believed the earth day on a big animal. Perhaps that's what was in Darwin's mind ☺

 

[Luminous_Rose]

Very interesting.
I didn't know that believed the earth day on a big animal. Perhaps that's what was in Darwin's mind ☺

Check out Geoterrapinism Theory on this animal theory. Some say it was a cosmic turtle or elephant. Often found in the 17th century among those in Native American, Chinese, and Indian cultures.

 

[Barbarian]

Science Then:
The earth was a flat disk.

No. By the time the Israelites had written down God's word, all educated people in the Middle East were aware that the Earth was a sphere. Eratosthenes actually measured it's circumference very accurately about 250 B.C.

There are Roman coins showing the Earth as a sphere.

The story that Columbus was told that he'd fall of the edge of the Earth is a folk tale. He was criticized by others, because he had grossly underestimated the circumference. If North America had not been there, he'd have died on that voyage. That's why he thought he had reached India; by his calculations he was where India should have been.

 

[Jim Parker]

The Bible:
The earth is a sphere
(Isaiah 40:22).

Science Now:
The earth is a sphere.

Science Then:
The earth was a flat disk.

------------------------------

The Bible:
Incalculable number of stars
(Jeremiah 33:22).

Science Now:
Incalculable number of stars

Science Then:
Only 1,100 stars.

------------------------------

The Bible:
Free float of earth in space
(Job 26:7).

Science Now:
Free float of earth in space.

Science Then:
Earth sat on a large animal.

------------------------------

The Bible:
Creation made of invisible
elements (Hebrews 11:3).

Science Now:
Creation made of invisible
elements (atoms).

Science Then:
Science was ignorant on
the subject.

------------------------------

The Bible:
Each star is different
(1 Corinthians 15:41).

Science Now:
Each star is different.

Science Then:
All stars were the same.

------------------------------

The Bible:
Light moves
(Job 38:19,20).

Science Now:
Light moves

Science Then:
Light was fixed in place.

------------------------------

The Bible:
Air has weight
(Job 28:25)

Science Now:
Air has weight

Science Then:
Air was weightless.

------------------------------

The Bible:
Winds blow in cyclones
(Ecclesiastes 1:6)

Science Now:
Winds blow in cyclones

Science Then:
Winds blew straight.

------------------------------

The Bible:
Blood is the source of life
and health
(Leviticus 17:11).

Science Now:
Blood is the source of life
and health.

Science Then:
Sick people must be bled.

------------------------------

The Bible:
Ocean floor contains deep
valleys and mountains
(2 Samuel 22:16;
Jonah 2:6).

Science Now:
Ocean floor contains deep
valleys and mountains.

Science Then:
The ocean floor was flat.

------------------------------

The Bible:
Ocean contains springs
(Job 38:16).

Science Now:
Ocean contains springs

Science Then:
Ocean fed only by rivers
and rain.

------------------------------

The Bible:
When dealing with disease,
hands should be washed
under running water
(Leviticus 15:13).

Science Now:
When dealing with disease,
hands should be washed
under running water.

Science Then:
Hands washed in still water.

-Courtesy of livingwaters.com

What this presentation does not address is the difference between "science then" and "science now."
When people thought that the earth was a flat disk, there was no such thing as "science" as we know it today. And those who proposed that the earth was held up on the back of large animals had no conception of science. It was pure speculation.

Also, the conclusions of science are very often not considered "truth" as the Bible is truth, but rather, the best understanding of scientist at this point in time based on their ability to examine the subject. That ability is increasing as time passes.

When washing in still water was prescribed it was at a time before there were microscopes. It wasn't until the invention of the microscope that bacteria were discovered and it wasn't until much later that the relationship between bacteria and disease was discovered.

Comparing the Bible to science is the ultimate example of comparing apples to oranges.

 

[Luminous_Rose]

No. By the time the Israelites had written down God's word, all educated people in the Middle East were aware that the Earth was a sphere. Eratosthenes actually measured it's circumference very accurately about 250 B.C.

There are Roman coins showing the Earth as a sphere.

The story that Columbus was told that he'd fall of the edge of the Earth is a folk tale. He was criticized by others, because he had grossly underestimated the circumference. If North America had not been there, he'd have died on that voyage. That's why he thought he had reached India; by his calculations he was where India should have been.

Of course while there may have been some that knew, I am guessing it drew off of a well-known idea (even if it was a myth). I suppose then Columbus found out on his own then =P

 

[Luminous_Rose]

What this presentation does not address is the difference between "science then" and "science now."
When people thought that the earth was a flat disk, there was no such thing as "science" as we know it today. And those who proposed that the earth was held up on the back of large animals had no conception of science. It was pure speculation.

Also, the conclusions of science are very often not considered "truth" as the Bible is truth, but rather, the best understanding of scientist at this point in time based on their ability to examine the subject. That ability is increasing as time passes.

When washing in still water was prescribed it was at a time before there were microscopes. It wasn't until the invention of the microscope that bacteria were discovered and it wasn't until much later that the relationship between bacteria and disease was discovered.

Comparing the Bible to science is the ultimate example of comparing apples to oranges.

While "science" would have been thought differently of course by what it used to be and what it is now. Even if "science" is not the best term that could have been used, there is an interesting correlation with the information.

I didn't exactly see this as comparing Bible to science as there are of course many differences in general as far as general or some would say secular science may go. I think what the idea is trying to present is what what the ideas or theories used to be and how some did not have the right idea while the Bible had the facts in there, but they were facts that probably were not commonly accepted.

I suppose also the point is if these people who made such speculations that weren't exactly correct would have been able to look into the Bible they would have found the answer.

Although, this is how I see it =P

 

[Edward]

What this presentation does not address is the difference between "science then" and "science now."
When people thought that the earth was a flat disk, there was no such thing as "science" as we know it today. And those who proposed that the earth was held up on the back of large animals had no conception of science. It was pure speculation.

Also, the conclusions of science are very often not considered "truth" as the Bible is truth, but rather, the best understanding of scientist at this point in time based on their ability to examine the subject. That ability is increasing as time passes.

When washing in still water was prescribed it was at a time before there were microscopes. It wasn't until the invention of the microscope that bacteria were discovered and it wasn't until much later that the relationship between bacteria and disease was discovered.

Comparing the Bible to science is the ultimate example of comparing apples to oranges.

Agreed. Personally I think that science is largely philosophy..

Science does have thing wrong for sure. The earth does not rotate upon its axis. Scripture says the earth is immovable.

 

[brother Paul]

Here is one I have always found interesting. The ancients believed much of human illness and disorder was caused by these invisible beings (life forms) called spirits or daemons...today with the intelligent design of instruments to enhance our senses we can see them...we call them bacteria and viruses. Still invisible to the human eye but alive, real, and causing disease...science at last here has validated this part of the Biblical claim.

 

[Jacks Bratt]

If you take the Bible as it is written, nowhere does it say that the earth is a sphere. Please show me, with scripture, that the earth is a ball, spinning on it's axis, orbiting the sun while we hurl through space as our sun has it's own orbit in a galaxy.....

This has been hashed out for many past threads, so I will not go into an argument. However, if you really trust what the bible says... the earth is a disk. It is not movable, it is on pillars and is the footstool of our God. It also has the sun and moon "in" the firmament that has water above and below.

All in all there are about 300 verses that disagree with a spinning ball.

I am not a flat earther but I am cannot let statements go on that disagree with what the bible actually states.

 

[brother Paul]

If you take the Bible as it is written, nowhere does it say that the earth is a sphere. Please show me, with scripture, that the earth is a ball, spinning on it's axis, orbiting the sun while we hurl through space as our sun has it's own orbit in a galaxy.....

This has been hashed out for many past threads, so I will not go into an argument. However, if you really trust what the bible says... the earth is a disk. It is not movable, it is on pillars and is the footstool of our God. It also has the sun and moon "in" the firmament that has water above and below.

All in all there are about 300 verses that disagree with a spinning ball.

I am not a flat earther but I am cannot let statements go on that disagree with what the bible actually states.

One thing Jack....people reading it must separate what God says, and what people believe or say...and secondly one must divide general common phrases from alleged statements of fact...for example one can read "the four corners of the earth" and assume this means that God is claiming the world has four actual corners (hence is a square) but this phrase is also used today and simply means everywhere on the earth in every direction (generally described as North, East, South, and West hence 4)...

khug in Isaiah 40:22 is rightly translated "Circle" in English (hence round) because they did not have a word that literally translates sphere and it is in Job that when the Lord tells Job that the earth hangs on nothing (no invisible cords, no giant elephant, or the shoulder of apollos, and so on) they would never have understood all that we call gravity, orbit, and Psalm 19 tells us the Sun follows its circuit...and so on....profound incites for ancients 2000 years before Christ

 

[Jacks Bratt]

One thing Jack....people reading it must separate what God says, and what people believe or say...and secondly one must divide general common phrases from alleged statements of fact...for example one can read "the four corners of the earth" and assume this means that God is claiming the world has four actual corners (hence is a square) but this phrase is also used today and simply means everywhere on the earth in every direction (generally described as North, East, South, and West hence 4)...

khug in Isaiah 40:22 is rightly translated "Circle" in English (hence round) because they did not have a word that literally translates sphere and it is in Job that when the Lord tells Job that the earth hangs on nothing (no invisible cords, no giant elephant, or the shoulder of apollos, and so on) they would never have understood all that we call gravity, orbit, and Psalm 19 tells us the Sun follows its circuit...and so on....profound incites for ancients 2000 years before Christ

Funny.... In Isaiah 22:18 we see this:

Isaiah 22:18 King James Version (KJV)
18 He will surely violently turn and toss thee like a ball into a large country: there shalt thou die, and there the chariots of thy glory shall be the shame of thy lord's house.

See the word "ball"? Isaiah did not use the word Khug here. He uses "dur" He knew the difference and so did the people that translated it.

Another thing.... the people of that time were not stupid goat farmers. They didn't have the technology that we have but they could certainly understand things when it was explained to them.

 

[Razeontherock]

No. By the time the Israelites had written down God's word, all educated people in the Middle East were aware that the Earth was a sphere. Eratosthenes actually measured it's circumference very accurately about 250 B.C.

There are Roman coins showing the Earth as a sphere.

The story that Columbus was told that he'd fall of the edge of the Earth is a folk tale. He was criticized by others, because he had grossly underestimated the circumference. If North America had not been there, he'd have died on that voyage. That's why he thought he had reached India; by his calculations he was where India should have been.

250bc is when Jewish Scripture was first written down according to ...

absolutely nobody

 

[Razeontherock]

If you take the Bible as it is written, nowhere does it say that the earth is a sphere. Please show me, with scripture, that the earth is a ball, spinning on it's axis, orbiting the sun while we hurl through space as our sun has it's own orbit in a galaxy.....

This has been hashed out for many past threads, so I will not go into an argument. However, if you really trust what the bible says... the earth is a disk. It is not movable, it is on pillars and is the footstool of our God. It also has the sun and moon "in" the firmament that has water above and below.

All in all there are about 300 verses that disagree with a spinning ball.

I am not a flat earther but I am cannot let statements go on that disagree with what the bible actually states.

Argument from ignorance. Not exactly putting your best foot forward.

You'll need to bring your A-game for this crowd here, and ---

this ain't it

 

[Jacks Bratt]

Argument from ignorance. Not exactly putting your best foot forward.

You'll need to bring your A-game for this crowd here, and ---

this ain't it

Well, that was an empty condescending retort....

Are you saying that you do have scripture that describes the earth as a ball... spinning... orbiting the sun and moving through space..... or are you just here to write empty retorts.

 

[Luminous_Rose]

Funny.... In Isaiah 22:18 we see this:

Isaiah 22:18 King James Version (KJV)
18 He will surely violently turn and toss thee like a ball into a large country: there shalt thou die, and there the chariots of thy glory shall be the shame of thy lord's house.

See the word "ball"? Isaiah did not use the word Khug here. He uses "dur" He knew the difference and so did the people that translated it.

Another thing.... the people of that time were not stupid goat farmers. They didn't have the technology that we have but they could certainly understand things when it was explained to them.

I see that brother Paul already mentioned something on this one when it comes to the Hebrew =P but anyway, we use the concordance in order to fully understand original meanings as close as possible since these are among the Bible's original languages especially since they don't always quite translate into English.

In Isaiah 40:22 KJV it says:

It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:

The focus is what the word "circle" honestly means. The name in the Hebrew root is "chuwg", which has been found to mean circle, circuit, or compass. Circle (Isaiah 40:22), circuit (Job 22:14), and compass (Proverbs 8:27) are where this word can be found. There are others that do debate that this may be referring to the horizon in accordance with another meaning that mentions this could mean "vault (of the heavens)". In the Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon is says, "A circle, sphere, used of the arch or vault of the sky; of the world". The term "sphere" is found in the definition and this is where we draw our basis that the Bible mentions the Earth as being a sphere.

All in all there are about 300 verses that disagree with a spinning ball.

This has been a fun topic to research as I haven't looked into it as deeply before, which verses disagree that the Earth has an orbit? I would like to look them up as well.

See the word "ball"? Isaiah did not use the word Khug here. He uses "dur" He knew the difference and so did the people that translated it.

Going ahead here to Isaiah 22:18 KJV:

He will surely violently turn and toss thee like a ball into a large country: there shalt thou die, and there the chariots of thy glory shall be the shame of thy lord's house.

Now, looking in the concordance for the term used for "ball" we find the Hebrew word "duwr". This is a different word than "chuwg", but we can see the meaning is similar if not the same. The definition is, "A circle, ball or pile: --ball, turn, round about. Both words are different looking at the concordance (one of my favorite tools when I have misplaced my Strong's Concordance is blueletterbible.org, it's fun to use!).

Another thing.... the people of that time were not stupid goat farmers. They didn't have the technology that we have but they could certainly understand things when it was explained to them.

No one said they were stupid goat farmers. It is that they did indeed lack the technology that we have today. The people back then were like us, just in a different time era. It wasn't that they were dumb, it was that they did not always have a Bible on hand or the technology to be able to explain why something was the way it is. People have always been people =)

Are you saying that you do have scripture that describes the earth as a ball... spinning... orbiting the sun and moving through space..... or are you just here to write empty retorts.

While I cannot say that there is scripture that says "earth spins/tilts on an axis/orbits the sun", it is understandable why some would withdraw this conclusion with some things that are in the Bible. Here is an interesting one:

Joshua 10:13 KJV:

And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.


How interesting - the sun stood still and the moon stayed. Something in this passage tells us that something phenomenal occured until the people had avenged themselves. The sun and moon standing still would be quite a sight. At the end of this verse in says "hested not to go down about a whole day." In this case, this is why we can assume the Bible mentions that the sun and moon follow their own orbits so why would the earth be standing still and not in motion? It's something to think about, I suppose. It's interesting that astronomy suggests if the Earth were to stop rotating that also the Earth would take an entire year to complete what the Earth does in one day (it's 24 hour cycle between day and night)

 

[brother Paul]

Funny.... In Isaiah 22:18 we see this:

Isaiah 22:18 King James Version (KJV)
18 He will surely violently turn and toss thee like a ball into a large country: there shalt thou die, and there the chariots of thy glory shall be the shame of thy lord's house.

See the word "ball"? Isaiah did not use the word Khug here. He uses "dur" He knew the difference and so did the people that translated it.

Another thing.... the people of that time were not stupid goat farmers. They didn't have the technology that we have but they could certainly understand things when it was explained to them.

I agree for the most part, but the "dur" could just as easily be saying tossed and turned round about when He places them in this other country wherein they will be killed. There are really only a handful of Hebrew words there and this is what I meant when I said what God might have said as opposed to what "people" say (in this case the translators) . Is the Lord making reference to the specific object (which could also be pile or circle) or to part of an incompleted action? It is hard to say...the word does not appear anywhere else to specifically refer to a "ball" (as we know such an object)...

Not saying I am right and you are wrong Jack, because clearly one can use the word khug differently as well. However when Gesenius indicated it could also be "sphere" he was not trying to make the Bible fit into science, he was merely seeing in light of the factual reality. Translating (the word firmament is also like this and even Strong separates what the word means an extension or expanse between) and what later Hebrews believe (a solid dome if you will).

 

[Razeontherock]

Well, that was an empty condescending retort....

Are you saying that you do have scripture that describes the earth as a ball... spinning... orbiting the sun and moving through space..... or are you just here to write empty retorts.

I'm saying you appear to be unfamiliar with Scripture, and asking foolish questions.

Yours is an argument from ignorance, which is a formal logical fallacy. It's a very weak position.

 

[Jim Parker]

there is an interesting correlation with the information.

Yes. Particularly in the way that scientists, as they develop new instruments and technology to observe the creation are regularly coming into agreement with the Bible which you point out.
I was just being my normal anal self pointing out that we have a tendency to overlook some important differences in the various meanings of the same word.

Nice post.

iakov the fool

 

[Jim Parker]

Science does have thing wrong for sure. The earth does not rotate upon its axis. Scripture says the earth is immovable.

If the earth did not rotate on it's axis then we would not have day and night.
The earth is immovable from the course it follows as it obits the sun and as the sun moves through space around the center of the galaxy.
God set that movement in motion imho