Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil/Tree of Life

[rogerg]

Sorry, they are at the bottom left. They are hard to see, but just run your cursor over them and you will see them.

Thanks again

 

[rogerg]

Gen 2:25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

At first when they were created they were both naked and were not ashamed, but once they disobeyed God's commandment (law) their eyes were opened to that which was good and evil and tried to hide themselves from God among the trees in the garden for they were now ashamed of their nakedness and and sewed fig leaves together to hide their nakedness. Thinking they would be wise and be like God they became foolish in disobedience.

Gen 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
Gen 3:7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.

From what I can determine ( but I am no expert and could easily be wrong), it looks to me like the words "commanded" (tsavah) :to command, charge, give orders, lay charge, give charge to, order in Gen 2:16,
as opposed to "law" (towrah): law, direction, instruction , in Exo 12:49 (for example) are different words with very different meanings. If I'm correct, then maybe the "law" part of your reply, as in "disobeyed God's commandment (law)", would change the interpretation of the verse as you have it stated . This could possibly meant then that "law" (towrah) had not been manifested to Adam and Eve in any form prior to the eating of the fruit of The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. The warning God gave them for a violation of His command was exclusively a sentence of death( an eternal spiritual death). The hiding of their nakedness, was not that punishment, but rather must have been their natural reaction to the breaking of a law and knowing (instinctively) they had done so. So, something new was introduce which provided them the demarcation/dividing line, that to be naked was a violation and not to be naked wasn't a violation. That something new was law. It was the law which opened their eyes.

 

[for_his_glory]

From what I can determine ( but I am no expert and could easily be wrong), it looks to me like the words "commanded" (tsavah) :to command, charge, give orders, lay charge, give charge to, order in Gen 2:16,
as opposed to "law" (towrah): law, direction, instruction , in Exo 12:49 (for example) are different words with very different meanings. If I'm correct, then maybe the "law" part of your reply, as in "disobeyed God's commandment (law)", would change the interpretation of the verse as you have it stated . This could possibly meant then that "law" (towrah) had not been manifested to Adam and Eve in any form prior to the eating of the fruit of The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. The warning God gave them for a violation of His command was exclusively a sentence of death( an eternal spiritual death). The hiding of their nakedness, was not that punishment, but rather must have been their natural reaction to the breaking of a law and knowing (instinctively) they had done so. So, something new was introduce which provided them the demarcation/dividing line, that to be naked was a violation and not to be naked wasn't a violation. That something new was law. It was the law which opened their eyes.

It's like saying the ten commandments are part of the 613 Levitical Laws as laws are commands in instruction from God who places all things in order for our Spiritual growth as we trust and obey Him. There is no way we can know what other commands God gave to Adam, but IMO they would be the same as what Noah followed. Cain knew it was wrong to kill, but he slew his brother out of jealousy so I would think Adam taught his children of God's commands like the seven I listed. Some things we can only be speculations or assumptions unless we can uncover the facts.

 

[ezrider]

To all those who think that all the laws have been fulfilled in Christ you are very wrong as below are the laws that are written upon our heart and can only be fulfilled when Christ returns and makes an end to sin by throwing it into the lake of fire with that of the beast and the false prophets. The only laws that Christ has fulfilled so far are that of the Temple and its sacrifices. Someone please show me in scripture where Jesus has fulfilled all the laws, because in Matthew 22:35-40 and Matthew 5:17, 18 Jesus does not say that he has already fulfilled all of them, but that love was the greatest of them all.

Because Jesus said I came not to destroy the law, but to fulfill it: You seem to have developed your own doctrines concerning the law. The law is not some prophecy that requires fulfillment, yet you speak as if it does. The Law demands only one thing: Obedience unto death!

 

[ezrider]

Law did not exist before Adam and Eve had eaten of The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, but after. Until then, judgment couldn't be levied by God. Judgment required Law to identify transgression.

The Law existed within the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. Judgement under the Law was reserved for God Alone. But when Adam took the fruit of the knowledge of the Law, he became as God knowing good and evil.

The Bible too is the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. We eat up its pages and are filled with the knowledge of sin. We take this knowledge and then seek for redemption, hiding ourselves beneath a covering: a covering taken from the fruit of the tree of knowledge. With the hope of redemption in hand, we feast upon more and more, page after page seeking all the knowledge the tree can bear. We take the words of the Book, and presume to speak for God. We take the words of the Book and judge one another by it, as if the Knowledge of the law gives us the authority to do so.

 

[for_his_glory]

Because Jesus said I came not to destroy the law, but to fulfill it: You seem to have developed your own doctrines concerning the law. The law is not some prophecy that requires fulfillment, yet you speak as if it does. The Law demands only one thing: Obedience unto death!

Please show me where I said the law is prophecy. I said exactly what Jesus already said as when He returns He will fulfill all the law.

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

 

[ezrider]

Please show me where I said the law is prophecy.

Please show me where I said that you said the law is prophecy.

 

[rogerg]

The Law existed within the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. Judgement under the Law was reserved for God Alone. But when Adam took the fruit of the knowledge of the Law, he became as God knowing good and evil.

The Bible too is the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. We eat up its pages and are filled with the knowledge of sin. We take this knowledge and then seek for redemption, hiding ourselves beneath a covering: a covering taken from the fruit of the tree of knowledge. With the hope of redemption in hand, we feast upon more and more, page after page seeking all the knowledge the tree can bear. We take the words of the Book, and presume to speak for God. We take the words of the Book and judge one another by it, as if the Knowledge of the law gives us the authority to do so.

ezrider,

"The Law existed within the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. Judgement under the Law was reserved for God alone But when Adam took the fruit of the knowledge of the Law, he became as God knowing good and evil alone. But when Adam took the fruit of the knowledge of the Law, he became as God knowing good and evil."

First off, guess I wasn't as precise as I might have been - what I meant to state was that law didn't exist for mankind until the fruit was eaten. Law then entered into mankind and served as the basis of the "knowledge" to demarcate between its "good" and "evil" (even though what it taught as being the "good" was actually the "evil" and visa verse). To clarify further, the laws in view regarding the tree are spiritual laws: the laws of eternal salvation/judgement, and not laws which form the basis of an earthly legal system and precepts of morality. These laws provide standards of behavior in this world and are useful and necessary. However, we place ourselves into extreme spiritual jeopardy should we try to use our works of the earthly law to spiritually justify ourselves before God.
Please observe that the anthesis of The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil was the Tree of Life. We can see
then the only possible pathway to eternal life led through the Tree of Life, with no preconditions or qualification made or implied, except to eat its fruit. On the other hand, with The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, no claim to eternal life was given or possible. I mention this to demonstrate the futility and folly should we try to self-justify ourselves before God -- it is flatly just not possible to do so.
Unfortunately, after the fruit (law) of The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil was eaten, it became impossible to then eat of the Tree of Life. Hence, a Savior needed, or no one would ever be able to find eternal life.

"The Bible too is the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. We eat up its pages and are filled with the knowledge of sin. We take this knowledge and then seek for redemption, hiding ourselves beneath a covering: a covering taken from the fruit of the tree of knowledge. With the hope of redemption in hand, we feast upon more and more, page after page seeking all the knowledge the tree can bear. We take the words of the Book, and presume to speak for God. We take the words of the Book and judge one another by it, as if the Knowledge of the law gives us the authority to do so."

Sorry, but I'm not sure that I follow your point? If it is that the remainder of the Bible was written by men whose perceptions were an extension of, and formed by, the tree of knowledge, then I think I might have to disagree. I am positive that God moved the writers of the Bible to write ONLY what He wanted written in its entirety even though they were imperfect men. Their gospel was of the tree of life, not the tree of knowledge.
Don't forget, God's purpose for the Bible was solely to reveal Jesus Christ as Savior and His ministry. if anything, it (His ministry) was a representation of the tree of life only better, and not the tree of knowledge. He came to take OUT His chosen from under LAW not place them under more law or to judge anyone; that is, on the behalf of the elect, He removed the law from them, which law, Adam's actions brought into existence. So then, and it is a very bold thing to say, that regarding spiritual salvation, there is no law whatsoever that can judge them.

 

[for_his_glory]

Please show me where I said that you said the law is prophecy.

Post #24 you said: The law is not some prophecy that requires fulfillment, yet you speak as if it does.

Did I misunderstand this?

 

[ezrider]

Post #24 you said: The law is not some prophecy that requires fulfillment, yet you speak as if it does.

Did I misunderstand this?

Yes, you did! Perhaps you would do well to read it again and carefully.

 

[ezrider]

Sorry, but I'm not sure that I follow your point? If it is that the remainder of the Bible was written by men whose perceptions were an extension of, and formed by, the tree of knowledge, then I think I might have to disagree. I am positive that God moved the writers of the Bible to write ONLY what He wanted written in its entirety even though they were imperfect men.

Did not God place the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil in the midst of the Garden?

 

[sushilp3585]

Thanks for ;the info but I only see like, quote, reply buttons at bottom right, don't see edit - it's probably there right in front of me and I'm just missing it. I'll keep looking.

It is on the same post that you write...it is grayed out on the bottom left so you will have to look for it very carefully. It is easily missed.

 

[rogerg]

It is on the same post that you write...it is grayed out on the bottom left so you will have to look for it very carefully. It is easily missed.

Thank you

 

[rogerg]

Did not God place the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil in the midst of the Garden?

For whatever it is worth, in rereading my post, I think that additional detail needs to be provided to illustrate subtleties of the verse which may not be immediately obvious:

Since, as the verse clearly states, the LORD only made trees with the specific characteristics of: “pleasant to the sight, and good for food.” BOTH had to be true for a tree to have been created by the LORD. Logically speaking, several sub-points accompany that requirement:

1. As mentioned in the original post, because the Tree of Knowledge was NOT good for food, the tree of knowledge violated the verse’s requirement. By that criterion alone, we can know they could not have been made by LORD. Otherwise, the Tree of Knowledge would be exactly the same as the Tree of Life should both have the attributes of “pleasant to the sight and good for food.” This could not possibly be correct as only one could lead to life, the other alone to death

2 Just by its presence within the verse, the phrase (“pleasant to the sight and good for food”), demonstrates that not all of the trees satisfied those requirements; that is, If ALL were pleasant to look at and good for food, then that phrase itself would have been meaningless, and couldn’t, have been used otherwise making the verse incorrect logically. This is because “pleasant to the sight and good for food” implies a standard and a relative comparison, which necessitates the tree be compared to something else, in this case, for contrast, to the other trees in the garden that were not. So, it seems to me that, if all were “pleasant to the sight and good for food” supposedly having been made by the LORD, then none would be because all would be the same. For clarification I think "pleasant to the sight and good for food') was the LORD'S perspective, not man's.

BTW, in looking at the verse in the interlinear, it seems the words “every” and “also” aren’t actually there. I’m no expert (not even a little) in Old Testament Hebrew, but I tried and could not find an obvious reason why they were added in various translations (including KJV) but couldn't. If those words were inappropriate to have been added, then that could significantly impact the verse’s meaning; that is, if “every tree” S/B only “tree”, and “life also in the midst” S/B only “life in the midst”, then this could mean there was only ONE tree in the midst of the garden made by the LORD which could satisfy the requirement of “ pleasant to the sight, and good for food” and that tree would only have been the Tree of Life.

(hope the preceding is logically correct and makes sense).

 

[rogerg]

The Law existed within the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. Judgement under the Law was reserved for God Alone. But when Adam took the fruit of the knowledge of the Law, he became as God knowing good and evil.

The Bible too is the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. We eat up its pages and are filled with the knowledge of sin. We take this knowledge and then seek for redemption, hiding ourselves beneath a covering: a covering taken from the fruit of the tree of knowledge. With the hope of redemption in hand, we feast upon more and more, page after page seeking all the knowledge the tree can bear. We take the words of the Book, and presume to speak for God. We take the words of the Book and judge one another by it, as if the Knowledge of the law gives us the authority to do so.

"The Law existed within the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil"
I believe the tree of the knowledge of good and evil was completely based upon the law of law.

"Judgement under the Law was reserved for God Alone"
Yes, but the judgment to be levied by God comes from being under the law; that is, the law that is broken, and by which we will be judged by God, is that we are all under law, until becoming born again,

"But when Adam took the fruit of the knowledge of the Law, he became as God knowing good and evil."
I may have missed it (probably did) but I don't find God informing us in the Bible that they became as God, to know good and evil -- could only find Satan making that statement.

 

[rogerg]

It's like saying the ten commandments are part of the 613 Levitical Laws as laws are commands in instruction from God who places all things in order for our Spiritual growth as we trust and obey Him. There is no way we can know what other commands God gave to Adam, but IMO they would be the same as what Noah followed. Cain knew it was wrong to kill, but he slew his brother out of jealousy so I would think Adam taught his children of God's commands like the seven I listed. Some things we can only be speculations or assumptions unless we can uncover the facts.

I think that which God wants us to know is included in the Bible alone. Also, the laws that I am referring to
are the laws of eternal life and death, not the earthly laws of mankind. Please observe:

[Rom 8:1-3 KJV]
1 [There is] therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

 

[rogerg]

To all those who think that all the laws have been fulfilled in Christ you are very wrong as below are the laws that are written upon our heart and can only be fulfilled when Christ returns and makes an end to sin by throwing it into the lake of fire with that of the beast and the false prophets. The only laws that Christ has fulfilled so far are that of the Temple and its sacrifices. Someone please show me in scripture where Jesus has fulfilled all the laws, because in Matthew 22:35-40 and Matthew 5:17, 18 Jesus does not say that he has already fulfilled all of them, but that love was the greatest of them all.

There are laws (commandments) of God that were especially written just for the Hebrews pertaining to the rituals of the Temple, sacrifices, festivals, Torah, Kohanim and Levites, the King and the Nazarite. Then there are the existing moral laws (commandments) for all of us to still follow as in prayers and blessings, love and brotherhood. The poor and unfortunate, treatment of the Gentiles, Marriage, divorce and family. Forbidden sexual relations, business practices, employees and servants. Vows, oaths, swearing, Court and Judicial procedures. Injuries and damages, property and property rights, criminal laws. Prophecy, idolatry and all its practices as the moral laws (commandments) keep us in line with the will of God.

We need to present ourselves a vessel of honor that God delights in as we allow the light of Christ shine in us and through us. This is a testimony of Gods grace and mercy as it is not ourselves that do any good thing, but Gods Spirit working in us and through us as we surrender our will to that of Gods will to be done.

Morality in God is His greatest commandment of love as we treat others as we want others to treat us. God is love and wants us to love and treat others as He loves and treats us.

Matthew 22:35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying, 36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

I think Christ (and all born from Christ) is the neighbor in view. It is satisfied, and can only be satisfied, when one becomes born again by God
​

 

[rogerg]

rogerg

Let me start again as this might be easier to understand.

Genesis 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
Genesis 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

James 1:12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.

God gave man (Adam) freewill choice in order to test his obedience to God's command not to partake of that tree. When Eve gave to Adam to eat of the tree he should had exercised his Spiritually authority over Eve, but instead failed the test of God thus losing that Spiritual fellowship with Him. Adam did not know he was naked until the knowledge of evil was first found in him. This was actually the first blood sacrifice as God made coats of skin to cover their nakedness (shame). Sin had now entered the heart of man from generation to generation as God continues to test our obedience to Him.

"freewill choice in order to test his obedience to God's command "

Probably missed it but I looked but could not find this doctrine mentioned anywhere about Adam in the Bible.

 

[rogerg]

you guys lost me lol. which chapter shows God making laws with Adam? Did I miss that part?

Sorry sushillp3585 I missed your reply until now.

Anyway, (and I hope I can say this in an understandable manner), but to start
I believe we need to understand the Bible as ONE integrated book Gen - Rev,
also as it being the ONLY revelation of written spiritual truth delivered to man by God.
Having said that, we then should compare like verses with like verse (the spiritual with the spiritual) to understand
what God is informing us of. Here is the direction the Bible provides:

[1Co 2:13 KJV] 13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

and

[2Pe 1:20 KJV] 20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

What I attempted to do in my post was to gather and compare what I believe are verses that expounded upon
and enhanced each other on a given topic per the above instructions.
From that, I found many verses throughout the Bible that were applicable, mostly in Romans. I won't duplicate everything I provided earlier but will give a few examples:

[Rom 7:9-11 KJV]
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
10 And the commandment, which [was ordained] to life, I found [to be] unto death.
11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew [me].

I believe the only time frame anyone had ever lived "without the law" (biblically speaking) was before even a concept of law existed (the law of law) as relating to mankind. So when God gave Adam commandment not to eat of the tree of knowledge, the purpose of the commandment was given to protect his life - but, because Adam violated it, the only thing (per God's warning not to violate it or death would result) which could cause spiritual death was the introduction of law because law alone is that which provides a plumb line for judgment, and by it, knowledge and death. It just so happened that Satan used God's commandment intended for good, to trick and slew Adam spiritually.
Now, you're probably wondering how Paul's statements (through God) in Romans are associated to Adam,? Well the Bible establishes a concept that what happens to an ancestor, is also happening to all of the descendants in his loins:

[Heb 7:9-10 KJV]
9 And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.
10 For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him.

Guess I'll stop here but there is much, much more that could be said about this topic. If you're curious and I can
clarify or add to it, please let me know and I'll be happy to try.

 

[rogerg]

So when Paul is referring to the law, he is talking about the 10 commandments that God gave to Moses, not the tree of Good and Evil. I believe (and this is how I interpret it) that God knew that it was going to happen but he took a chance anyway. We were suppose to live how Adam and Eve lived in the Garden of Eden. However, since Satan wanted be be independent and ruin mankind, he took the opportunity of something that was good, the tree of Good and Evil, and made it into a sin. You have to understand that before this, there was no sin. Sin was generated because Adam and Eve disobeyed God. Hope this helps and as always, if someone sees an error, just let me know

"he took the opportunity of something that was good, the tree of Good and Evil, and made it into a sin. You have to understand that before this, there was no sin. Sin was generated because Adam and Eve disobeyed God."
[Rom 7:8 KJV]
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin [was] dead.
[1Co 15:56 KJV]
56 The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law.