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[__ Science __ ] Two Things Presidential Voting Is Not

jasonc

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Christians have no choice but to get in bed with whoever they feel have the best policies for their country. Is does not matter who that person is? No politician is flawless, neither is anyone. As I said, they can either step up themselves and run for leadership or choose a flawless person if they find one.
some ,choose to actually fix the problems outside of the govt.

such person asks for aid,he may vote ,he may not,but forced charity it isn't ,they will work with whomever to get it done .I have been help ed this way and partook .

I'm not talking about things only,the govt can do ,but charity ,beach clean up,and food .
 

TimothyW

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Christians have no choice but to get in bed with whoever they feel have the best policies for their country. Is does not matter who that person is? No politician is flawless, neither is anyone. As I said, they can either step up themselves and run for leadership or choose a flawless person if they find one.
Well said. And if you believe that Donald Trump best represents your values, you should absolutely vote for Trump, no matter what it does to your reputation as a Christian.
 

tdidymas

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Well said. And if you believe that Donald Trump best represents your values, you should absolutely vote for Trump, no matter what it does to your reputation as a Christian.
A presidential candidate does not represent Christianity, but rather represents a political party. It would be nice that he would represent Christianity by way of Christian maturity and ethics, but that would be secondary, because it is the policies of the political party that are the actual promises that the candidate is making to pursue leadership for. Therefore, if there are 2 evil people running for office (both hypocrites), then voting for the lesser of 2 evils in regard to the policies would be voting more for your values than against them, would it not?
TD:)
 

Couppy

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Well said. And if you believe that Donald Trump best represents your values, you should absolutely vote for Trump, no matter what it does to your reputation as a Christian.
My reputation as a Christian is not important when it comes to ensuring that the will and plan of God is done. My reputation was nailed to the Cross on the day I decided to seek God's plan and will in all things. As long as God is glorified, I could careless about reputation.

Many people have tried to keep their reputation by going with the crowd. That is life. No one wants to stand up for someone who everyone is against, because of their reputation. Voting should be about policies.
 

tdidymas

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Well, if you think Trump represents you, then whatever.
Trump is pro-life and against special privilege for gays, whereas Biden is the opposite, so therefore Trump does represent my Christian values moreso than Biden.
TD:)
 

jasonc

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TimothyW

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Trump is pro-life and against special privilege for gays, whereas Biden is the opposite, so therefore Trump does represent my Christian values moreso than Biden.
TD:)
I can understand being prolife and voting that way. I just can't understand being proud of voting for Trump considering everything else that he does. If this were really the reason you are voting for Trump, why not just vote and then keep your vote quiet? Why do so many Trump-christians claim that God sent Trump? Why do they fly Trump's flag, put Trump's signs in their front yards. They are actually proud that they are voting for Trump and attack anyone who disagrees. This seems to go WAY beyond Trump claiming to be prolife and being against gays.

I don't need to list the other things Trump has done, you know what they are. But the silence from Christians concerning these things speaks volumes. No Trump-christian has EVER said that those things are not proper. You are just looking for an excuse to vote for Trump, and you are able to hide behind being "pro-life". I don't believe it anymore. If Trump came out in favor of abortion, Trump-christians would find some other excuse to vote for him.
 

TimothyW

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My reputation as a Christian is not important when it comes to ensuring that the will and plan of God is done. My reputation was nailed to the Cross on the day I decided to seek God's plan and will in all things. As long as God is glorified, I could careless about reputation.

Many people have tried to keep their reputation by going with the crowd. That is life. No one wants to stand up for someone who everyone is against, because of their reputation. Voting should be about policies.
The "crowd" of Christians fully supports Donald Trump. 81%.
You try to keep your reputation by going with THAT crowd. Supporting indecency does NOT bring glory to God. Exactly the opposite. I would rather lose my reputation with Trumpchristians by standing up for what is right than gain reputation with people who want to support Trump's wrongdoing.
 

Couppy

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The "crowd" of Christians fully supports Donald Trump. 81%.
You try to keep your reputation by going with THAT crowd. Supporting indecency does NOT bring glory to God. Exactly the opposite. I would rather lose my reputation with Trumpchristians by standing up for what is right than gain reputation with people who want to support Trump's wrongdoing.
You really do not like Trump. I get it. For those who want to vote for Trump - they've got my respect. For those who do not want to vote for Trump, like yourself - you've got my respect. Let everyone be convicted of doing the right thing - that is what human rights and freedom of speech are all about.

By the way, I voted for who I wanted in UK's election, regardless of colleagues trying to get my vote for their candidate. So, go for it and vote for whoever you like. I support Christians who vote for who they want, regardless of my views and other people trying to convince them otherwise.

I do not live in the US, so I really do not care who vote for Trump and who does not. I care about who God chooses for the presidency and that is in my prayers.
 

stovebolts

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Then why do Christians get into bed with them? Particularly this one, (who does things that I won't even mention)

And they are proud of it?
And they accuse people of not even being Christian if they don't also get into bed with this one?
They claim (with their votes) that this person best represents them. I believe them. They become just like him.
It is no wonder that the Bible says "Bad company corrupts good character." We are seeing it happen.
It is shameful.
For me, it's what they do, not what they say.
Christ remains my King. Salvation does not come any other way. We have been equipped to live in this world to be a light.

For me, this means discernment. Sifting and sorting weighing and measuring all the options. We don't live in a perfect world, but that doesn't mean we stop trying. All we can do is our best, and sometimes the best we can do is far from perfect.
 

TimothyW

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For me, it's what they do, not what they say.
Christ remains my King. Salvation does not come any other way. We have been equipped to live in this world to be a light.

For me, this means discernment. Sifting and sorting weighing and measuring all the options. We don't live in a perfect world, but that doesn't mean we stop trying. All we can do is our best, and sometimes the best we can do is far from perfect.
I agree. I am recommending using discernment. People should consider how their vote affects their credibility. If a Christian's credibility is lost because they are defending Trump's indecency, then what happens when they try to talk to someone about God? Why should anyone listen then? Great harm is being done to the gospel by people blindly following Donald Trump. No one can serve two masters. People have to choose between following Donald Trump and following God.

Donald Trump's promise should be very familiar to Christians. All this I will give you if you bow down and vote for me.
We should know better than to take that offer. What does it profit a man to gain the Supreme Court and lose his soul?
 
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stovebolts

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I agree. I am recommending using discernment. People should consider how their vote affects their credibility. If a Christian's credibility is lost because they are defending Trump's indecency, then what happens when they try to talk to someone about God? Why should anyone listen then? Great harm is being done to the gospel by people blindly following Donald Trump. No one can serve two masters. People have to choose between following Donald Trump and following God.

Donald Trump's promise should be very familiar to Christians. All this I will give you if you bow down and vote for me.
We should know better than to take that offer. What does it profit a man to gain the Supreme Court and lose his soul?
I suppose we could vote for Biden and Harris and have abortion legalized up till the moment of birth....
Listen were not going to start a bunch of political arguments here. We’re not going to start bashing political parties either.
 

TimothyW

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I suppose we could vote for Biden and Harris and have abortion legalized up till the moment of birth....
Listen were not going to start a bunch of political arguments here. We’re not going to start bashing political parties either.
You are saying that you are not going to start bashing political parties WHILE you are bashing a political party!
Neither political party is for legalized abortion up til the moment of birth, but I think you know that.

I'm just saying that people should vote for someone who reflects their values. If you believe that is Trump, that is more on you than me.
 

TimothyW

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I suppose we could vote for Biden and Harris and have abortion legalized up till the moment of birth....
The issue is not abortion. The issue is Christians getting into bed with dishonest and corrupt people. Tying the abortion issue to a corrupt man just puts dirt on the pro-life position. If I don't support a liar for president, then I am not pro-life? I thought the pro-life side was better than that. I am pro-life, but I am also pro-truth, pro-honesty and pro-decency.
 

tdidymas

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I can understand being prolife and voting that way. I just can't understand being proud of voting for Trump considering everything else that he does. If this were really the reason you are voting for Trump, why not just vote and then keep your vote quiet? Why do so many Trump-christians claim that God sent Trump? Why do they fly Trump's flag, put Trump's signs in their front yards. They are actually proud that they are voting for Trump and attack anyone who disagrees. This seems to go WAY beyond Trump claiming to be prolife and being against gays.

I don't need to list the other things Trump has done, you know what they are. But the silence from Christians concerning these things speaks volumes. No Trump-christian has EVER said that those things are not proper. You are just looking for an excuse to vote for Trump, and you are able to hide behind being "pro-life". I don't believe it anymore. If Trump came out in favor of abortion, Trump-christians would find some other excuse to vote for him.
If Trump came out in favor of abortion and gays, I'd vote for someone else. To me, those issues are top ones, and it's why I'm still Republican. In my mind, the Democratic party which used to be Christian is now apostate. And other parties are not far behind. In that sense, I have only 2 choices: vote for Trump, or not vote, and not voting is likely a vote against him. Therefore, I vote for the least of the evils.

Therefore, I'm not "hiding behind pro-life" as you say. Well, perhaps some are, because they are "Trump fans." But, I'm not a Trump fan. I'm not proud of voting for him. In fact, I'm quite embarrassed about his immaturity and bully personality. Yet, I'm voting for him because he has agreed to the Republican party policies, which includes the two I am most concerned about, among other policies about the economy, immigration, and other important issues.

The point is that I'm not falling for the political games and cultural popularity contest.
TD:)
 

jasonc

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That article is talking about something that happened 20 years ago. Has Trump lead any recent policies to that effect as president?
no,the log cabin stayements is quite recent ,it mentions before 2016 also ,yes trump is pushing for the decriminilozation of gays,the scotus likely,won't see any be new challenges to the current rulings on the changes to the civil right acts or the fact that the transgender can serve in military .a court can't without a reason rule against something without a petition.

I live in a red county ,pro gay right bars and also long before the scotus ruling even the republican controlled city passed internal rules on this that were pro gay rights. been like that where I work before ObAmas second term .

city council has to vote on these new personnel rules.


the lgbt are here to stay ,as much as I don't like the fact they choose to sin .,making it a crime ,or firing then etc don't change this.

that was my point ,gays won't be going back ,Hollywood and porn etc won't stop their filth ,the culture will continue to decline .
 

stovebolts

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I am pro-life, but I am also pro-truth, pro-honesty and pro-decency.
We are both in complete agreement. We speak the truth, and we stand firm in the Truth and in no way call evil good. But we do all of this in love.

When it comes to voting, we have to look at the issues that line up with our Christian values. We then have to assign a weighted value to each issue.

Let me ask you, what carries more weight? Is it honesty?
Integrity?
Life?

While honesty, integrity and decency weighs very high on my list of Christian commandments, the command not to murder ranks higher than those listed. Because my Christian faith puts more weight on life, I find it difficult, if not impossible to vote for a candidate who supports abortion.

What irks me, is some understand this value of life ranks very high for Christians, and some would use this to garnish our vote so they can do other evils that are contrary to our Christian values.

Anyway, along with my list of things that rank high, is unity among the brotherhood. We live this out on this site by being respectful toward one another. Politics can get ugly, very ugly. It's hard enough to create a safe place for Christians seeking unity without bringing politics in. So, just to give you a forewarning, it will be interesting how long this topic stays alive.
 

stovebolts

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If Trump came out in favor of abortion and gays, I'd vote for someone else. To me, those issues are top ones, and it's why I'm still Republican. In my mind, the Democratic party which used to be Christian is now apostate. And other parties are not far behind. In that sense, I have only 2 choices: vote for Trump, or not vote, and not voting is likely a vote against him. Therefore, I vote for the least of the evils.

Therefore, I'm not "hiding behind pro-life" as you say. Well, perhaps some are, because they are "Trump fans." But, I'm not a Trump fan. I'm not proud of voting for him. In fact, I'm quite embarrassed about his immaturity and bully personality. Yet, I'm voting for him because he has agreed to the Republican party policies, which includes the two I am most concerned about, among other policies about the economy, immigration, and other important issues.

The point is that I'm not falling for the political games and cultural popularity contest.
TD:)
I'm in the same boat...
 
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