Understanding Salvation.

[WIP]

True " obedience" is adhering to a set of rules or mandates in order to fulfill expectations of something in return.

Not necessarily. When my wife asks me to do things and I obey it is not always for some reward that I do that. It is because I love her and simply want to do what she asks just because she asked and I know she loves me.

Likewise, when I obey the Lord it is not because of what He may do for me. It is because I love my Lord and want to obey Him because He first loved me.

 

[WIP]

When someone surrenders to an enemy, do they pull a list of terms or things they want out of their pocket? No, the only expectation is to be a slave to the one surrendered to.

Actually, sometimes they do. There is such a thing as an offer of conditional surrender. In some ways, the Korean war was one such case.

 

[Seasoned by Grace]

Not necessarily. When my wife asks me to do things and I obey it is not always for some reward that I do that. It is because I love her and simply want to do what she asks just because she asked and I know she loves me.

Likewise, when I obey the Lord it is not because of what He may do for me. It is because I love my Lord and want to obey Him because He first loved me.

WIP
I had to reply to this because you are so "RIGHT ON" in your response.
We live by "GRACE" not by RULES and LEGALISM.
I'm eternally grateful that He loves me.

God bless you all as you continue your walk.
My name is OLIGOS

 

[for_his_glory]

First, not a teacher, never claimed to be. I've known one gifted teacher in 33 years.

Second, I don't reject the scriptures, I reject your legitimacy to speak about them.

I would suggest you go back and read CF's statement of faith you agreed with when you became a member of this forum. We discuss by using the doctrines of Christ who is our teacher by that of God's Holy Spirit who teaches us all truths, who works in us and through us to bring the truth found in the scriptures to those who we discuss with. Do we always agree with each other, no, but yet we need to be opened to that of what others are trying to teach us and take those scriptures they give and study them so we will not be deceived by all the false doctrines of man that are out in the world.

We are to share our sources from what and how we believe in our understanding, which you refuse to do. Instead you would rather debate by either using Reformed Theology or just your own speculations and opinions, whichever one you are using. When one becomes unteachable and leans on their own understanding then they have not the Spirit of Christ in them and are none of His own.

Proverbs 3:1 My son, forget not my law; but let thine heart keep my commandments: 2 For length of days, and long life, and peace, shall they add to thee. 3 Let not mercy and truth forsake thee: bind them about thy neck; write them upon the table of thine heart: 4 So shalt thou find favour and good understanding in the sight of God and man. 5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. 6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.

 

[Seasoned by Grace]

I would suggest you go back and read CF's statement of faith you agreed with when you became a member of this forum. We discuss by using the doctrines of Christ who is our teacher by that of God's Holy Spirit who teaches us all truths, who works in us and through us to bring the truth found in the scriptures to those who we discuss with. Do we always agree with each other, no, but yet we need to be opened to that of what others are trying to teach us and take those scriptures they give and study them so we will not be deceived by all the false doctrines of man that are out in the world.

We are to share our sources from what and how we believe in our understanding, which you refuse to do. Instead you would rather debate by either using Reformed Theology or just your own speculations and opinions, whichever one you are using. When one becomes unteachable and leans on their own understanding then they have not the Spirit of Christ in them and are none of His own.

Proverbs 3:1 My son, forget not my law; but let thine heart keep my commandments: 2 For length of days, and long life, and peace, shall they add to thee. 3 Let not mercy and truth forsake thee: bind them about thy neck; write them upon the table of thine heart: 4 So shalt thou find favour and good understanding in the sight of God and man. 5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. 6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.

WOW...I'm new here, but definetly in the right place!!

My name is OLIGOS

 

[Watchman 2]

Actually, sometimes they do. There is such a thing as an offer of conditional surrender. In some ways, the Korean war was one such case.

No such thing as conditional surrender with God. Half measure avails nothing.

 

[WIP]

No such thing as conditional surrender with God. Half measure avails nothing.

In the quote I referenced you didn't mention God. You asked a general question if when someone surrenders to an enemy.... I just replied giving you an example of when conditional surrenders do happen.

And maybe God has conditions upon our surrender to Him. For example consider Matthew 5:48 (NKJV) "Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect." This isn't a suggestion. Shall is a command.

 

[for_his_glory]

WOW...I'm new here, but definetly in the right place!!

My name is OLIGOS

And we are happy you are with us.

 

[Seasoned by Grace]

In the quote I referenced you didn't mention God. You asked a general question if when someone surrenders to an enemy.... I just replied giving you an example of when conditional surrenders do happen.

And maybe God has conditions upon our surrender to Him. For example consider Matthew 5:48 (NKJV) "Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect." This isn't a suggestion. Shall is a command.

ABSOLUTELY INCREDIBLE
Men of faith here with faith that honors Gods truth and the harmony of His word. - PRAISE GOD and thank you.

My name is OLIGOS

 

[for_his_glory]

In the quote I referenced you didn't mention God. You asked a general question if when someone surrenders to an enemy.... I just replied giving you an example of when conditional surrenders do happen.

And maybe God has conditions upon our surrender to Him. For example consider Matthew 5:48 (NKJV) "Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect." This isn't a suggestion. Shall is a command.

In Watchman 2 post # 93 he states he does not use scripture. He just wants to debate with everyone and doesn't even want us to give him scriptures. It's all speculations, opinions an using one word "Pisteuo" from the Greek lexicon as he does not believe saving faith and believe have anything to do with each other and the word believe should not be in the Bible.

 

[JLB]

First, not a teacher, never claimed to be. I've known one gifted teacher in 33 years.

Second, I don't reject the scriptures, I reject your legitimacy to speak about them.

She is a child of the God Most High!


It doesn’t get any more legitimate than that.


Your on thin ice, bro.

We don’t speak against people like that here.


If I were you, I would find a way to learn how to get along with God’s children, if you expect your “teaching” to be received, as legitimate.



JLB

 

[Seasoned by Grace]

He has a bigger problem than just what he says here.
God says all who teach will be held to a higher standard at judgement.

"It's a terrible thing to fall into the hands of the living God"

I taught by preaching at times in 2 churches, and lead a men's bible study group for years, and always spoke in fear and trembling of the Lord, knowing those verses, just as I speak fearfully hear.
My dad loved me but he had lines I didn't dare cross, as there was a price to pay.

God loves me too, but like with my dad, I shudder at crossing any of Gods lines.

My name is OLIGOS

 

[JLB]

He has a bigger problem than just what he says here.
God says all who teach will be held to a higher standard at judgement.

"It's a terrible thing to fall into the hands of the living God"

I taught by preaching at times in 2 churches, and lead a men's bible study group for years, and always spoke in fear and trembling of the Lord, knowing those verses, just as I speak fearfully hear.
My dad loved me but he had lines I didn't dare cross, as there was a price to pay.

God loves me too, but like with my dad, I shudder at crossing any of Gods lines.

My name is OLIGOS

Amen.

I quote this proverb a lot.

The fear of the Lord is a fountain of life,
To turn one away from the snares of death.
Proverbs 14:27


I tend to just lead people to the scriptures, and bullet point key phrases within the scripture I’m quoting.

Other than that, the Holy Spirit has to open the person to understand.


I find the biggest problem is many people have a preconceived idea about a certain “concept” and they read into the scripture what they already believe.


Paul calls this preconceived idea a “stronghold”, which exalts itself against the knowledge of God.


I believe this word stronghold is in the definitions area.




JLB

 

[Watchman 2]

In the quote I referenced you didn't mention God. You asked a general question if when someone surrenders to an enemy.... I just replied giving you an example of when conditional surrenders do happen.

And maybe God has conditions upon our surrender to Him. For example consider Matthew 5:48 (NKJV) "Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect." This isn't a suggestion. Shall is a command.

Surrender is the precondition!

 

[Seasoned by Grace]

In Watchman 2 post # 93 he states he does not use scripture. He just wants to debate with everyone and doesn't even want us to give him scriptures. It's all speculations, opinions an using one word "Pisteuo" from the Greek lexicon as he does not believe saving faith and believe have anything to do with each other and the word believe should not be in the Bible.

YIKES...

 

[for_his_glory]

Amen.

I quote this proverb a lot.

The fear of the Lord is a fountain of life,
To turn one away from the snares of death.
Proverbs 14:27


I tend to just lead people to the scriptures, and bullet point key phrases within the scripture I’m quoting.

Other than that, the Holy Spirit has to open the person to understand.


I find the biggest problem is many people have a preconceived idea about a certain “concept” and they read into the scripture what they already believe.


Paul calls this preconceived idea a “stronghold”, which exalts itself against the knowledge of God.


I believe this word stronghold is in the definitions area.




JLB

This scripture came to mind when I read your reply.

2 Corinthians 10:4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;) 5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ; 6 And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.

 

[JLB]

This scripture came to mind when I read your reply.

2 Corinthians 10:4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;) 5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ; 6 And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.

Amen. Amen.

 

[Seasoned by Grace]

JLB

When you believe the Gospel.

At this point the Spirit baptizes you into Christ, whereby you are joined to Him and are one spirit with Him.


JLB

JLB my friend.
I hope your not offended by my question.
I am a bit confused by your statement I have marked quoted here.

Please only JLB answer and no one for Him.

I thought according to Acts 2 :38 and all the examples in the book of Acts of baptism, that we are baptized by a person, like the Ethiopian Eunuch was, and THEN we received the gift of the Holy Spirit, who is a down payment on our conditional salvation or being saved.

Your comment here sounds backwards to me.
Maybe you could explain to me how your statement and Acts 2:38 are in harmony with each other.

What do all those baptisms represent to you?

God bless you all as we walk this road together.
My name is OLIGOS

 

[JLB]

JLB


JLB my friend.
I hope your not offended by my question.
I am a bit confused by your statement I have marked quoted here.

Please only JLB answer and no one for Him.

I thought according to Acts 2 :38 and all the examples in the book of Acts of baptism, that we are baptized by a person, like the Ethiopian Eunuch was, and THEN we received the gift of the Holy Spirit, who is a down payment on our conditional salvation or being saved.

Your comment here sounds backwards to me.
Maybe you could explain to me how your statement and Acts 2:38 are in harmony with each other.

What do all those baptisms represent to you?

God bless you all as we walk this road together.
My name is OLIGOS

There are three distinct baptisms, with three distinct baptizer’s.

1. We are baptized into Christ, by the Spirit; The Spirit is the Baptizer.

This occurs at initial salvation, when we are born again, and is directly associated with us being saved.

For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. 1 Corinthians 12:13

We are now “in Christ”, and are a new creation.

2. We are baptized in water by man, in which man is the baptizer.​

​

for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.” Acts 1:5

This is where believers, people who are already saved and are in Christ, are baptized by a human being.

3. We are baptized by the Lord Jesus Christ, with the Holy Spirit, where Jesus Christ is the Baptizer.​

I indeed baptized you with water, but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.” Mark 1:8



Paul teaches this truth from the Old Testament.


Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea.
1 Corinthians 10:1-2

• all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea

Moses is a type of Christ. - Baptized into Christ
The cloud is a type of the Spirit - Baptized with the Spirit
The sea is a type of water - Baptized in water



JLB

 

[Seasoned by Grace]

Thank you JLB