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Victimized by another bad interpretation???

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Stormcrow

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For years, we've all read this short little verse:

And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, Revelation 20:7 (KJV)

And thought nothing of it. Seems pretty simple and straightforward, huh?


Maybe not. While perusing one of my literal translations, I came across this:


And whenever are ended the thousand years will be released Satan out of the prison of him,

WHAT?!?!?

See the change from the King James to the literal???

When >> Whenever!

Anybody else see how this changes the meaning of the sentence?

When is emphatic. It emphatically declares that when the 1,000 years are over, Satan will be freed. This certainly implies that the 1,000 years is, in fact, a full 1,000 year span of time!

But when the word whenever is used, things become a little less emphatic; a little less certain!

Now, just to see how this works, replace the word "when" with the word "whenever" in the NASB version:

Whenever the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison, Revelation 20:7 (NASB)

Young's Literal expresses this uncertainty this way:


And when the thousand years may be finished, the Adversary shall be loosed out of his prison, Revelation 20:7 (YLT)

Let's put these words in a different context:


When the next hour passes, we'll have dinner. (This is like saying, "we'll have dinner in an hour.")


Whenever the next hour passes, we'll have dinner. (This is like saying, "we'll have dinner after the 5 o'clock hour.")


The first suggests a full hour must pass before dinner is ready, but the second suggests dinner could be ready in 5 minutes!


In other words, when the word "when" is used in reference to a thousand years passing, it suggests a full thousand years. But when the word "whenever" is used in reference to a thousand years passing, that same thousand years may have been close to completion at the time John wrote Revelation!


This is backed up by Strong's:


Greek Strong's Number: 3752
Greek Word:
ὅταν
Transliteration:
hotan
Root:
from <G3753> and <G302>
Cross Reference:

Part of Speech:
particle
Vine's Words:
None
Usage Notes:

English Words used in KJV:
when 115
as soon as 2
as long as 1
that 1
whensoever 1
while 1
till + <G1508> 1
[Total Count: 122]


from <G3753> (hote) and <G302> (an); whenever (implying hypothesis or more or less uncertainty); also causative (conjecture) inasmuch as :- as long (soon) as, that, + till, when (-soever), while.

Don't shoot me. I'm just the messenger.

So have we been victimized by a bad interpretation of the Greek word "hotan?"

Just thought I'd throw that out there.

Oh, and one more thing about the 1,000 years: Hitler's Third Reich was supposed to last 1,000 years. It lasted 12 (1933 - 1945).

"Whenever the thousand years end." For Hitler's Germany, the thousand years ended after 12.

Is this what John really means: that the 1,000 years may not reach the full length of 1,000 years? And if so, when did they end?

:chin:chin:chin
 
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That one is stretched too far Storm.

Hitler,,,dinner? Can you work the Yankees in there someplace?
 
The 1000yrs mean forever. That God chooses to suspend the term and release a 'rehabilitated' Satan is His business, but in retrospect it actually serves a purpose in a world where there is no longer a Jew/Gentile division. If you really want to know when the 1000yrs ended, read the Qu'ran.:wink3
 
For years, we've all read this short little verse:

And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, Revelation 20:7 (KJV)

And thought nothing of it. Seems pretty simple and straightforward, huh?

Maybe not. While perusing one of my literal translations, I came across this:

And whenever are ended the thousand years will be released Satan out of the prison of him,

WHAT?!?!?

See the change from the King James to the literal???

When >> Whenever!

Anybody else see how this changes the meaning of the sentence?

When is emphatic. It emphatically declares that when the 1,000 years are over, Satan will be freed. This certainly implies that the 1,000 years is, in fact, a full 1,000 year span of time!

But when the word whenever is used, things become a little less emphatic; a little less certain!

Now, just to see how this works, replace the word "when" with the word "whenever" in the NASB version:

Whenever the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison, Revelation 20:7 (NASB)

Young's Literal expresses this uncertainty this way:

And when the thousand years may be finished, the Adversary shall be loosed out of his prison, Revelation 20:7 (YLT)

Let's put these words in a different context:

When the next hour passes, we'll have dinner. (This is like saying, "we'll have dinner in an hour.")

Whenever the next hour passes, we'll have dinner. (This is like saying, "we'll have dinner after the 5 o'clock hour.")

The first suggests a full hour must pass before dinner is ready, but the second suggests dinner could be ready in 5 minutes!

In other words, when the word "when" is used in reference to a thousand years passing, it suggests a full thousand years. But when the word "whenever" is used in reference to a thousand years passing, that same thousand years may have been close to completion at the time John wrote Revelation!

This is backed up by Strong's:

Greek Strong's Number: 3752
Greek Word:ὅταν
Transliteration:hotan
Root: from <G3753> and <G302>
Cross Reference:
Part of Speech: particle
Vine's Words: None
Usage Notes:
English Words used in KJV:
when 115
as soon as 2
as long as 1
that 1
whensoever 1
while 1
till + <G1508> 1
[Total Count: 122]

from <G3753> (hote) and <G302> (an); whenever (implying hypothesis or more or less uncertainty); also causative (conjecture) inasmuch as :- as long (soon) as, that, + till, when (-soever), while.

Don't shoot me. I'm just the messenger.

So have we been victimized by a bad interpretation of the Greek word "hotan?"

Just thought I'd throw that out there.

Oh, and one more thing about the 1,000 years: Hitler's Third Reich was supposed to last 1,000 years. It lasted 12 (1933 - 1945).


"Whenever the thousand years end." For Hitler's Germany, the thousand years ended after 12.

Is this what John really means: that the 1,000 years may not reach the full length of 1,000 years? And if so, when did they end?
:chin:chin:chin

______________

No, it does not mean that, Jer. 4 has the 'very desolate earth' seen as before creation. It is empty except for satan who was here to tempt Christ's first human creation Adam.

When Christ comes again the Godly seperation takes place. All wicked will die at the Lords presence & the rightous leave for the 1000 years for earth's judgement. (Eccl. 12:13-14)

The earth is satan's empty home as Jer. 4 has it until the 1000 years of judgement is over, then comes execution of all lost according to their wickedness. (as seen in the Eccl. record books.. NO sinners in heaven except by books recorded!)

1 Cor. 6
[2] [[[Do ye not know]]] that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
[3] Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?


--Elijah
 
Here is my question, why would Jesus come and gather us up with him to just return us to the same wicked Earth he took us up from and then at the end of 1000 years will usher down the New Earth, New Jerusalem? This makes no sense Spiritually or literally.
 
Here is my question, why would Jesus come and gather us up with him to just return us to the same wicked Earth he took us up from and then at the end of 1000 years will usher down the New Earth, New Jerusalem? This makes no sense Spiritually or literally.

________

Hi, Christ comes to gather the dead rightous called the first resurection along with many living rightous ones. ALL wicked stay DEAD & the wicked living? They DIE at Christ's second coming! They remain DEAD on DESOLATE EARTH until the rightous return at the END of this 1000 year [JUDGEMENT]. They then have their RESURECTION to die the SECOND DEATH along with satan & his crew! This is the EXECUTIONAL STAGE called hell. (Similar to the USA's law) And satan was bound on desolate earth because his captives were all dead.

OK: After FIRE COMES DOWN from heaven then [[ALL HEAVEN & EARTH ARE RECREATED] & New Jersulam that was hovering above earth will then set down on the New Earth. (if you want verses, drop me a missive!:thumbsup) But do read Jer. 4:22-27:study

--Elijah
 
Victimized by another bad interpretation??? :shocked!

Jeremiah's prophecy was fulfilled when Nebuchadnezzar's Babylonian army laid segue on Jerusalem and destroyed it and the Temple.

Jer 4:27 For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land {not world} shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.

God says... 'to be continued' ;)
 
Victimized by another bad interpretation??? :shocked!

Jeremiah's prophecy was fulfilled when Nebuchadnezzar's Babylonian army laid segue on Jerusalem and destroyed it and the Temple.

Jer 4:27 For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land {not world} shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.

God says... 'to be continued' ;)

________


If history is not to be repeated, God tells us the very few times that these issues of non/Salvation times happen. The rainbow in the sky which is many times repeated, yet tell us that there will never be another world flood! And in Nah. 1:9 we find that SIN WILL NOT ARISE A SECOND TIME. A few more? surely, you look them up!



In Eccl. 1

[9] The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.
[10] Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? it hath been already of old time, which was before us.


And if one will stay away from the ones of Jer. 17:5 and take God at HIS WORD we will find that most all of these ones or Rev. 17:1-5’s false doctrines will be dumped.(or why has God DECREED these ones so?)



Now for another to establish this Inspiration! Eccl. 3

[14] I know that, whatsoever God doeth, (OR SAYETH! HIS WORD!) it shall be for ever: nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it: and God doeth it, that men should fear before him.

(that is almost the exact warning given in Rev. 22:18-19 ‘as seen TWICE)


[15] That which hath been is now; and that which is to be hath already been; and God requireth that which is past.
(OK: Two different places telling us what???? Even TWICE STATED! But you do not believe the documented Inspiration of Jer. 4:22-27 talking about one being ‘FOOLISH + the exact history from Gen. – Rev. Ending?’ (verse 22 ibid)



OK: The Eternal God has given His WORD AGAIN, the one who NEVER CHANGES! Heb. 13:8! So in bottom/line His WORD is Eternal for all & any Truth! Take note to [[MANKIND]] in Gen. 41 for how we find God ESTABLISHING ANYTHING?

Gen. 41



[32] And for that the dream was doubled unto Pharaoh twice; it is because the thing is established by God, and God will shortly bring it to pass.



But who believes God in the first place?? Just a ‘REMNANT’.



--Elijah
________

PS: And further on into history being repeated the Lord's [[WORD]] says...

1 Cor. 10:11
[9] Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.
[10] Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.
[11] Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.


+

Rev. 22
[18] For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
[19] And if any man [[shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy]], [[God shall take away his part out of the book of life]], and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.


And that is exactly what Inspiration of Eccl. 3:14 has said!



 
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Nahum 1:9 refers to the particular sin of 7th century BC Nineveh. Yet if you insist it refers to our time then rejoice, for Christ has already put away sin, which kind of deflates the whole dispensational apocalypse model of our world continually getting more evil.:clap
 
Declare in Judah and proclaim in Jerusalem, and say, "Blow the trumpet in the land; Cry aloud and say, 'Assemble yourselves, and let us go Into the fortified cities.' "Lift up a standard toward Zion! Seek refuge, do not stand still, For I am bringing evil from the north, And great destruction. "A lion has gone up from his thicket, And a destroyer of nations has set out; He has gone out from his place To make your land a waste. Your cities will be ruins Without inhabitant. Jeremiah 4:5-7 (NASB)

Elijah, as Vic has correctly pointed out to you, Jeremiah 4 is a prophecy of the destruction of Judah and Jerusalem by Nebuchadnezzar and Babylon! It was fulfilled in 587 BC!
 
Declare in Judah and proclaim in Jerusalem, and say, "Blow the trumpet in the land; Cry aloud and say, 'Assemble yourselves, and let us go Into the fortified cities.' "Lift up a standard toward Zion! Seek refuge, do not stand still, For I am bringing evil from the north, And great destruction. "A lion has gone up from his thicket, And a destroyer of nations has set out; He has gone out from his place To make your land a waste. Your cities will be ruins Without inhabitant. Jeremiah 4:5-7 (NASB)

Elijah, as Vic has correctly pointed out to you, Jeremiah 4 is a prophecy of the destruction of Judah and Jerusalem by Nebuchadnezzar and Babylon! It was fulfilled in 587 BC!

??? Awaken Friend! (S!) Who are you + Vic & myself????:salute Can we not tell the RECORD BOOKS in Eccl. 12:13-14 that 'this is the way that 'i' see it? +, do we need a man made majority vote to elect Gods Truth??:sad (Matt. 7's BROADWAY)

Again.. INSPIRATION IS CHRISTS WORD, and IT SAYS:
Jer. 4
[22] For [my people] is foolish, they have not known me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge.
(surely you are right? you say??)

[23] [[[I beheld the earth]]], and, lo, [[[it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light]]].:study:study
(and this was only part of the earth + the 'lightless' heavens was only a dot over Juda + Jerusalem.. interesting how that is seen??? Personally 'i' see that a few posts seen [so far] here, are from ones in the first part of verse 22's Inspiration!)
[24] I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.

[25] [[[I beheld, and, lo, there was no man]]], and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
(Just Juda & Jerusalem is a tad bit of adding to this Inspiration as I see it! Rev. 22:18-19 + Eccl. 3:14:sad)
[26] I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down [[at the presence of the LORD:thumbsup]], and by his fierce anger.
[27] For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.

This is the EXACT VOID prophecy that was given in Gen. 1 before creation that will be repeated (Eccl 1:9-10 + Eccl. 3:15) when Christ comes again to seperate the rightousness from the wicked. satan is bound here by a literal set of circumstances until the wicked have their resurection to all die the second death. During their executional stage of judgement by the rightous (1 Cor. 6:2-3) earth is in total shambles as before creation, as 'i' see it saying.

2 Thess. 2 has it this way...
[8] And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and [[[shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:]]]
[9] Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
[10] And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
[11] And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

What bothers me from folks who post on these Christian sites is that instead of 'learning' of the Lord's Word, they come on like gang busters telling the posting 'person' that this IS THE WAY THAT IT IS! So in essence who needs the WORD of God then??? And surely we all should forget the personal stuff + most importanly 'teach' that this [[IS THE WAY THAT 'i' SEE IT.:thumbsup
--Elijah
 
________

Hi, Christ comes to gather the dead rightous called the first resurection along with many living rightous ones. ALL wicked stay DEAD & the wicked living? They DIE at Christ's second coming! They remain DEAD on DESOLATE EARTH until the rightous return at the END of this 1000 year [JUDGEMENT]. They then have their RESURECTION to die the SECOND DEATH along with satan & his crew! This is the EXECUTIONAL STAGE called hell. (Similar to the USA's law) And satan was bound on desolate earth because his captives were all dead.

OK: After FIRE COMES DOWN from heaven then [[ALL HEAVEN & EARTH ARE RECREATED] & New Jersulam that was hovering above earth will then set down on the New Earth. (if you want verses, drop me a missive!:thumbsup) But do read Jer. 4:22-27:study

--Elijah

Hi again, see if this helps to understand?
As 'i' see it the City will not locate on earth (touch down.. compare Zech. 14:4-5) until ALL IS CLEANSED by FIRE. This is what Hell will do. (Rev. 20:7-14)

[1] And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

[2] And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

[3] And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

[4] And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
(this is after the 1000 years of Judgement of the wicked, and 'tears' during that time?? 'i' believe will be bountiful!)

[5] And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
[6] And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

[7] He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
[8] But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

--Elijah
 
Jer. 4
[22] For [my people] is foolish, they have not known me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge.
(surely you are right? you say??)

"My people" is a reference to the Jews! This is not referring to the church!

The entire context of Jeremiah 4 is about Jerusalem and Judah!
 
Indeed they are, but they also carry significance for today...or are we not a sottish children..who know evil and not good?

sot·tish [sot-ish] adjective
1. stupefied with or as if with drink; drunken.
2. given to excessive drinking.
3. pertaining to or befitting a sot.

Care to explain how this applies to the universal, invisible body of Christ, the bride whom He died to save???

Why does futurism necessarily demean Christ's sacrifice and those whom He died to save? :chin:chin:chin
 
sot·tish [sot-ish] adjective
1. stupefied with or as if with drink; drunken.
2. given to excessive drinking.
3. pertaining to or befitting a sot.

Care to explain how this applies to the universal, invisible body of Christ, the bride whom He died to save???

Why does futurism necessarily demean Christ's sacrifice and those whom He died to save? :chin:chin:chin

Lord have we not prophesied in your name? Cast out demons?

It doesnt demean the cross. I see alot of the church is drunk on its own superiority. Believes itself impervious to destruction, and gives itself over to false doctrines.

I am not saying that Jeremiah 4 is most definitely referring to the modern world..but i would be careful to make sure you dont off-handedly dismiss truth in your own pride.
 
"My people" is a reference to the Jews! This is not referring to the church!

The entire context of Jeremiah 4 is about Jerusalem and Judah!
_______________________________________

Are you Vic's Amen corner?;)
I will just stick with my Mastdrs Previous quoted Word as stated!~:thumbsup

??? Awaken Friend! (S!) Who are you + Vic & myself????:salute Can we not tell the RECORD BOOKS in Eccl. 12:13-14 that 'this is the way that 'i' see it? +, do we need a man made majority vote to elect Gods Truth??:sad (Matt. 7's BROADWAY)

Again.. INSPIRATION IS CHRISTS WORD, and IT SAYS:
Jer. 4
[22] For [my people] is foolish, they have not known me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge.
(surely you are right? you say??)

[23] [[[I beheld the earth]]], and, lo, [[[it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light]]].:study:study
(and this was only part of the earth + the 'lightless' heavens was only a dot over Juda + Jerusalem.. interesting how that is seen??? Personally 'i' see that a few posts seen [so far] here, are from ones in the first part of verse 22's Inspiration!)
[24] I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.

[25] [[[I beheld, and, lo, there was no man]]], and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
(Just Juda & Jerusalem is a tad bit of adding to this Inspiration as I see it! Rev. 22:18-19 + Eccl. 3:14:sad)
[26] I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down [[at the presence of the LORD:thumbsup]], and by his fierce anger.
[27] For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.

This is the EXACT VOID prophecy that was given in Gen. 1 before creation that will be repeated (Eccl 1:9-10 + Eccl. 3:15) when Christ comes again to seperate the rightousness from the wicked. satan is bound here by a literal set of circumstances until the wicked have their resurection to all die the second death. During their executional stage of judgement by the rightous (1 Cor. 6:2-3) earth is in total shambles as before creation, as 'i' see it saying.

2 Thess. 2 has it this way...
[8] And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and [[[shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:]]]
[9] Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
[10] And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
[11] And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

What bothers me from folks who post on these Christian sites is that instead of 'learning' of the Lord's Word, they come on like gang busters telling the posting 'person' that this IS THE WAY THAT IT IS! So in essence who needs the WORD of God then??? And surely we all should forget the personal stuff + most importanly 'teach' that this [[IS THE WAY THAT 'i' SEE IT.:thumbsup

--Elijah

PS:
Lets just tack this in here for helping 'me' see huh?
Rev. 6
[12] And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
[13] And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
[14] And [[[the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.]]]
[15] And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
[16] And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
[17] For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
 
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