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Bible Study Virgins of Matthew 25

J

John the Baptist

Guest
Matthew Chapter 25

1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.

2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.

3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:

4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.

5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.

6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.

7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.

8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.

9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.

10
And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.

11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.

12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.

13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.


Is there any interest in this? ---John
 
B

bmeasure

Guest
Is there any interest in this? ---John
Interest in what? Scripture? Yes, I have read that part several times. It's a great parable. Is that what you wanted to hear? Are you asking if we like that scripture? I mean you haven't asked any question or made any points. What is supposed to be interesting?
 
J

John the Baptist

Guest
bmeasure said:
Is there any interest in this? ---John
Interest in what? Scripture? Yes, I have read that part several times. It's a great parable. Is that what you wanted to hear? Are you asking if we like that scripture? I mean you haven't asked any question or made any points. What is supposed to be interesting?
*******
Well for starters:

Matthew Chapter 25

1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.

Sounds as a comparison with ex/virgin ones of heaven? % wise were 50 & 50 at one time, as in earths conflict. (not the Rev. 17:5 ones)

2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.

These ones were all Virgin in doctrine, as was Israel of old. Amos 5:2
3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:

It seems that they all had oil in the 'burning at one time lamps'. Yet, there was a decision for extra oil to be taken by some. What does the oil mean, you tell me? :fadein: There are several good Bible books on this. And Revelation 2:5 and for sure Luke 12:47-48.

4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.

5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.

6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh;
go ye out to meet him.

All slept! Midnight Cry?? Who awakened all of these ones? No body from the all sleeping membership. Compare Israel of old. Where did the midnight cry come from? And what was it, and who gave it?? See Matthew 23:38 for starters. (not 70AD's loud cry slaughter!)

7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.

See! They all did have lamps & they all had some oil! Just not enough.

8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.

9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.

10
And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.

And the shut door? No one wants to hear of that, huh? Yet, Christ is very clear in that statement! Even compare heaven's shut door, the Arks shut door, and Israels shut door, and the last true fold? Who are the ones of Revelation 3:9.

11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.

12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.

Interesting that these ones are still called Virgins. As were all who rejected Christ from His true fold, the doctrines were not the problem! See Isaiah 5:3 for what they kept & what one was rejected. Also see John 12:42-43 for the reason why Christ was rejected.

13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

I had asked.. 'Is there any interest in this?

Well, one reason for the question asked was to see if verse 13 has anyone watching, or really caring one way or another?? :wink: Seems that maybe you at least are concerned. Do you know where Christ expounded the one on one answer to this parable at? Mark 4:34!
---John
 
C

cj

Guest
The following is one of the most clear and easily understood explanations of these verses in Matthew........


Matthew 25:1 says, “Then shall the kingdom of the heavens be likened to ten virgins, who took their lamps and went forth to meet the bridegroom.†The word “Then†here means “at that time,†that is, at the time of the parousia. When the parousia described in chapter twenty-four is taking place, many things will be happening. Then the kingdom of the heavens will be likened to ten virgins.

Virgins signify believers in the aspect of life (2 Cor. 11:2). Believers, who are the kingdom people, are like chaste virgins, bearing the Lord’s testimony (the lamp) in the dark age and going out of the world to meet the Lord. For this they need not only the indwelling, but also the fullness of the Spirit of God.

We Christians firstly are virgins. Being a virgin is not a matter of work, service, or activity, but a matter of life. Moreover, we are not only virgins, but chaste, pure virgins. Being a virgin is not a matter of what we do or are able to do; it is absolutely a matter of what we are. Whether we are male or female, we are virgins. Although I am an old man, I conduct myself like a virgin. I would never sell my status as a virgin. Even before the enemy, I am a virgin.

Verse 1 says that the virgins took their lamps and went forth to meet the bridegroom. Lamps signify the spirit of the believers (Prov. 20:27), which contains the Spirit of God as the oil (Rom. 8:16). The believers shine with the light of the Spirit of God from within their spirit. Thus, they become the light of the world, like a lamp shining in the darkness of this age (Matt. 5:14-16; Phil. 2:15-16) to bear the testimony of the Lord for the glorification of God. Thus, as virgins we do not take weapons for fighting or sports equipment for playing, but lamps for testifying, shining, and enlightening. In our hand is a lamp shining for the Lord’s testimony.

The virgins went forth. This signifies that the believers are going out of the world to meet the coming Christ. The virgins do not linger or settle in any place. Instead, they are going out of the world. In one of his writings, D. M. Panton said that the world was just a pathway to him and at the end of this pathway there would be a grave. If the Lord delays His coming back, the world eventually will afford me only a resting place, a tomb in which to lie as I wait for the Lord’s coming. We are not settled in this world. We are going out of the world.

The bridegroom signifies Christ as the pleasant and attractive person (John 3:29; Matt. 9:15). How good it is that in this parable the Lord likens Himself not to a victorious general or great commander-in-chief, but to a bridegroom, a most pleasant person. Thus, we are the virgins going, and He is the Bridegroom coming.

Verse 2 says, “And five of them were foolish, and five were prudent.†Five is composed of four plus one, signifying that man (signified by four) with God (signified by one) added to him bears responsibility. The fact that five are foolish and five prudent does not indicate that half the believers are foolish and the other half are prudent. It indicates that all believers bear responsibility to be filled with the Spirit of God.

The Old Testament reveals clearly that five is the number of responsibility. For example, the ten commandments were divided into two groups of five. Also, the number five appears frequently with respect to the tabernacle and its furniture. Five is the basic factor of many of its dimensions.

The five fingers on our hand indicate how the number five is composed in the Bible. It is composed of four plus one. As we have pointed out, the number four signifies the creature and the number one the Creator. The creature plus the Creator gives the ability to bear responsibility. If we had just four fingers without a thumb, it would be difficult for us to do anything. This means that by ourselves, as the number four, we cannot bear responsibility. But when God is added to us, we are able to bear responsibility.

Verse 2 says that five of the virgins were foolish and five were prudent. The Lord Jesus mentions the foolish first because in the bearing of responsibility the problem is not with the prudent ones, but with the foolish ones. Being foolish does not make these five virgins false. In nature they are the same as the five prudent ones.

Verse 3 tells us the reason they were foolish: “For the foolish, when they took their lamps, did not take oil with them.†Oil signifies the Spirit of God (Isa. 61:1; Heb. 1:9). The foolish ones were foolish because they had oil only in the lamp, but not the extra portion of oil in the vessel. In addition to the regenerating Spirit, they did not have the infilling Spirit, the extra portion of the Holy Spirit.

Verse 4 says, “But the prudent took oil in their vessels with their lamps.†Man is a vessel made for God (Rom. 9:21, 23-24), and man’s personality is in his soul. Hence, vessels here signify the soul of the believers. The five prudent virgins not only have oil in their lamps, but also take oil in their vessels. Having oil in their lamps signifies that they have the Spirit of God dwelling in their spirit (Rom. 8:9, 16), and taking oil in their vessels signifies that they have the fullness of the Spirit of God saturating their souls.

We need to be very clear about the lamps and the vessels. According to the Hebrew text, Proverbs 20:27 says that the spirit of man is the lamp of the Lord. Within the lamp is the oil, the Holy Spirit. The New Testament reveals that our spirit is the place the Holy Spirit indwells. According to Romans 9, we are vessels made by God. Our being, our personality, is in our soul. Therefore, the vessel in this verse signifies our soul. Through regeneration we have the Spirit of God in our spirit. This causes our lamp to burn. But the question is whether or not we have the extra portion of the Holy Spirit filling our soul. Although we have the oil in our lamp, we need the extra portion of the oil in our soul. This signifies that the Spirit must spread from within our spirit to every part of our soul. Then in our soul we shall have an extra amount of the Holy Spirit. If we have this extra portion, we are prudent. If we do not have it, we are foolish. In other words, if we are indifferent to the infilling of the Holy Spirit, we are foolish. If we are wise, we shall pray, “Lord, have mercy on me. I want to have Your Spirit not only in my spirit, but also in my soul. Lord, I need the infilling of the Spirit. I need the extra portion of the Holy Spirit to fill my entire being.†Without this extra portion of the Spirit, we cannot be watchful or ready. In order to be watchful and ready, we need the infilling of the Holy Spirit, the spreading of the Spirit Himself from our spirit to every part of our inward being.

Verse 5 says that the Bridegroom delayed His coming. The Lord Jesus truly has delayed His coming again. In Revelation He promised to come quickly, but nearly two thousand years have passed, and still He delays his coming.

Because the Bridegroom delayed His coming, all the virgins “became drowsy and slept.†Becoming drowsy signifies becoming sick (Acts 9:37; 1 Cor. 11:30), and going to sleep signifies dying (1 Thes. 4:13-16; John 11:11-13). While the Lord delays His coming back, the majority of the believers firstly become sick and then die.

Verse 6 says, “But at midnight there is a cry, Behold, the bridegroom! Go forth to meet him!†Midnight signifies the darkest time of this dark age (night). That will be the end of this age, the time of the great tribulation. “Cry†signifies the voice of the archangel (1 Thes. 4:16).

Verse 7 says, “Then all those virgins arose and trimmed their lamps.†“Arose†signifies resurrection from the dead (1 Thes. 4:14). This is the resurrection predicted in 1 Thessalonians 4:16 and 1 Corinthians 15:52.

After the virgins arose, they “trimmed their lamps.†This signifies their dealing with their testimony in life. This indicates that after resurrection our life for the Lord’s testimony will still need to be dealt with if it is not perfect before we die.

Verse 8 says, “And the foolish said to the prudent, Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.†This word implies that even after resurrection the foolish believers will still need the fullness of the Spirit of God. “Going out†proves that the lamps of the foolish virgins are lighted, having oil in them, but not having an adequate supply. The foolish virgins represent the believers who have been regenerated by the Spirit of God dwelling in them, but who are not filled with the Spirit of God so that He may saturate their whole being.

Verse 9 says, “But the prudent answered, saying, Lest there be not enough for us and for you, go rather to those who sell and buy for yourselves.†This indicates that no one can have the fullness of the Holy Spirit for others. We may borrow many things, but we cannot borrow the infilling of the Holy Spirit. This is like eating. No one can eat for you.

The prudent virgins told the foolish ones to go to those who sell and buy for themselves. Those who sell oil must be the two witnesses during the great tribulation, the two olive trees and the two sons of oil (Rev. 11:3-4; Zech. 4:11-14). During the great tribulation, the two sons of oil, Moses and Elijah, will come to help God’s people.

To buy indicates the need of paying a price. The fullness of the Holy Spirit is obtained at a cost, such as giving up the world, dealing with the self, loving the Lord above all, and counting all things loss for Christ. If we do not pay this price today, we must pay it after resurrection, Those who do not pay the price do not have the extra portion of the Holy Spirit. Eventually, the foolish virgins will realize that they need to love the Lord with all their heart and soul. They will see that they need to give up the world and deal with the self.

Verse 10 says, “And as they were going away to buy, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the marriage feast, and the door was shut.†The word “came†refers to the Lord’s coming to the air (1 Thes. 4:16), a part of His parousia. Those who are ready must be those who are invited to the marriage dinner of the Lamb (Rev. 19:9). We should be ready (24:44) by always having oil in our vessel, always being filled with the Spirit of God in our whole being. To watch and be ready should be our daily exercise for the Lord’s parousia.

To go in with Him refers to the rapture of the resurrected believers to the air (1 Thes. 4:17) during the Lord’s parousia. The marriage feast in verse 10 is the marriage dinner of the Lamb (Rev. 19:9), which will be held in the air (1 Thes. 4:17) during the Lord’s coming, His parousia. It will occur before the manifestation of the kingdom as a reward of mutual enjoyment with the Lord to the believers who are ready, who have been equipped with the fullness of the Holy Spirit before they die.

After those who are ready go in with the Bridegroom to the marriage feast, the door is shut. This is not the door of salvation, but the door to enter into the enjoyment of the Lord’s marriage feast.

Verses 11 and 12 say, “And later the rest of the virgins came also, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us! But he answered and said, Truly I say to you, I do not know you.†The later coming of the foolish virgins refers to the later rapture of the resurrected believers. They paid the price for the extra portion of oil, but they obtained it too late. Time means a great deal here, for when they came, the door was shut.

When they asked the Lord to open to them, He said, “I do not know you.†To not know here indicates not to recognize, not to approve, as in Luke 13:25; John 1:26, 31; 8:19. The foolish virgins had their lamps lighted, went forth to meet the Lord, died, and were resurrected and raptured, but were late in paying the price for the fullness of the Holy Spirit. Because of this, the Lord would not recognize or approve of them for participation in His marriage feast. They missed this reward dispensationally, but they do not lose their salvation eternally.

In telling them that He did not know them, the Lord was saying, “I do not appreciate you or recognize you, and I do not approve of the way you lived on the earth. Also, I do not approve of your coming so late.†Thus, they are rejected from the enjoyment of the kingdom feast.

Verse 13 concludes, “Watch therefore, for you do not know the day nor the hour.†Chapter 24:40-44 refers to the rapture only of the living believers who are ready. Chapter 25:1-13 is needed to cover the rapture of the dead and resurrected ones. When we read this portion of the Word, we see how watchful we need to be. To be watchful and ready is a very serious matter.

No other book warns us as often as the book of Matthew does. I can testify before the Lord that for more than forty years I have been warned by this book. Whenever I have been a little careless, I have remembered the warnings contained in Matthew. Yes, we all are virgins, but are we foolish or prudent? We all need to answer this question for ourselves. Whether we are prudent or not depends on whether or not we have the extra portion of the Holy Spirit in our vessel.

Concerning the Christian life, the New Testament reveals that firstly we need to receive the Spirit of God into our spirit so that we may be regenerated. Following this, we need to grow. To grow is to be transformed, and to be transformed is mainly to be renewed in the spirit of the mind. Transformation and the renewing of the mind issue in the infilling of the Holy Spirit in our soul. Our mind is the leading part of our soul. To be renewed in the spirit of our mind is to have our mind filled and saturated with the Spirit. Then the Spirit that has saturated our mind will renew our whole being. Thus, our being, our soul, will be saturated with the infilling Spirit. This is the way to have the extra portion of oil in the vessel.

As we pointed out in the foregoing message, to be regenerated, to have the new birth, is to have the Spirit in our spirit, that is, to have the oil in our lamp. To have the Spirit in our soul means that we grow in life, are transformed, are renewed in our whole being, and have our soul saturated with the Holy Spirit of God. This is to have the oil in the vessel. This is the way to be watchful and to be ready for the Lord’s coming. It is also the way to be prepared to be raptured into the Lord’s presence.

(Taken from the Life Study of Matthew, by Witness Lee)



In love,
cj
 
J

John the Baptist

Guest
Virgin in this chapter surely needs Christ's forward direction to the disciples that He chose and explained parables to, I would think?

And about all Born Again or converted ones being Virgins?? I personally do not see it that way in all cases. Purity is demanded, yes! But in this case it is speaking in comparison of heavens Virgins fold & Virgin doctrine. But, these ones just pure ones, are all saved where they are at, fold/wise, or denomination, & even no denomination. (Romans 2:14-15) Yet, this Virgin is a Virgin fold 'me' thinks.

Let me clarify what I am thinking? In John 10:16 we see Christ telling us flat out, that He has 'other sheep' in other folds, (not of this fold) and that He must bring them out! Why?

No, He has a Virgin fold! (doctrine/wise) Ask yourself why Christ would require that His true sheep in wrong folds must leave, if He was in these folds?? Check out Revelation 17:5's Words of Christ! (Word of God/wise) And also the life or death requirement of Revelation 18:4.

Ask yourself, is Christ [IN] these folds of Revelation 17:5? Now, is the question asking, does Christ have some of His Sheep in these folds, in ignorance?? Can you see the difference?

---John
 
C

cj

Guest
JB, you're going to have to be a little more clear,....... you lost me.

Why not just stick to one thought at a time, and let us work through that particular thought until we're clear, and then we can start on another.

In love,
cj
 
J

John the Baptist

Guest
cj said:
JB, you're going to have to be a little more clear,....... you lost me.

Why not just stick to one thought at a time, and let us work through that particular thought until we're clear, and then we can start on another.

In love,
cj
******
OK: :fadein:
What are Christians & what are denominations or folds?
 
C

cj

Guest
John the Baptist said:
What are Christians & what are denominations or folds?[/b]
Christians are persons who have been saved (become born again of the Spirit and thus have receive incorruptible life, which is divine life) by grace through faith.

Denominations are the issue of men taking a name other than that of Christ, as the title of the teachings/traditions/ forms that they hold to.

A fold, according to the biblical meaning, is a temporary pen, or holding area.

In love,
cj
 
J

John the Baptist

Guest
cj said:
John the Baptist said:
What are Christians & what are denominations or folds?[/b]
Christians are persons who have been saved (become born again of the Spirit and thus have receive incorruptible life, which is divine life) by grace through faith.

Denominations are the issue of men taking a name other than that of Christ, as the title of the teachings/traditions/ forms that they hold to.

A fold, according to the biblical meaning, is a temporary pen, or holding area.

In love,
cj
******
I see why we cannot communicate, huh? :fadein:
I don't agree with that. Ephesians 4:5 is not a pen! And Saul was sent to a pen in Acts 9:6? By Christ Himself, no less!---John
 
C

cj

Guest
JB,

Why don't you give me your take on what a Christian is, on what a denomination is, and on what a fold is?

The we can discuss it.

In love,
cj
 
J

John the Baptist

Guest
cj said:
JB,

Why don't you give me your take on what a Christian is, on what a denomination is, and on what a fold is?

The we can discuss it.

In love,
cj
********
PSALM 77:13 in the King James translation tells 'of' the [True Fold's] blueprint! :fadein: Are you familiar with this study? The Sanctuary! An true fold, church, denomination (how ever you describe it?) must be built according to this original plan to have any Virgin doctrinal merit. It is flawless! See Ephesians 4:5.

Even then, it could become empty of Christ. His presence was conditional.
See Joshua 7:12's last part of the verse. (and Isaiah 59:1-2) But, make no mistake, the blueprint is not the fault!! Do you remember Israel being 'led' by a cloud by day & a pillar of fire by night? See the New Testament Stephen, in Acts 7:38 tell us who this was!!

And a Christian? Being Born Again was nothing new after Adam sinned. All were required to be Born Again to be saved. Yet, that is & was only the required starting point! No saved person will, or can pass this up, as with the other Required Truth of.. no one can do anything with out Christ! John 15:5 ".. for with out Me ye can do nothing."
Those Truths are Everlasting Gospel! :fadein: Revelation 14:6

---John
 

Scott

Member
Joined
May 2, 2003
Messages
2,070
I mean you haven't asked any question or made any points. What is supposed to be interesting?
I've made this point before, so its very likely its only going to fall on deaf ears again but oh well. Could it be JtB, that what Jesus says in John 10:16, He is simply alluding to what Paul explains further in Romans 9, 10, & 11. Its not so complicated when we understand this allusion is to the Gentiles who as Paul notes in those 3 chapters in Romans, are the beneficiaries of Israel's unbelief. But its even more clearly understood with Isaiah 56:8, huh John!!? :fadein:

But this is all confusion to those who believe God is finished with Israel despite all the prophecies yet to be fulfilled, huh John?!! ;-)
 
J

John the Baptist

Guest
I see why we cannot communicate, huh?
I don't agree with that. Ephesians 4:5 is not a pen! And Saul was sent to a pen in Acts 9:6? By Christ Himself, no less!---John


Just some more of the 'Virgin fold'. Matthew 16:18-19 With keys of the Kingdom!

And did Christ mean that He was not quoted correctly? Besides sending Saul in Acts 9:6 to this new fold of Christ's, for his orders? He also stated the same proof in Matthew 18:17-18. Notice that they can be added or removed by this body of believers, to the heavenly record books! How does Christ tell us this is done?

And the Everlasting Gospel is CONDITIONAL & with intrusted responsibility of course. As Revelation 2:5's removal of its candlestick so states!

Yet, before Christ comes again, this UNITY will once again be seen. Revelation 12:17
 

Scott

Member
Joined
May 2, 2003
Messages
2,070
Just in case you missed this post JtB.

Scott said:
I mean you haven't asked any question or made any points. What is supposed to be interesting?
I've made this point before, so its very likely its only going to fall on deaf ears again but oh well. Could it be JtB, that what Jesus says in John 10:16, He is simply alluding to what Paul explains further in Romans 9, 10, & 11. Its not so complicated when we understand this allusion is to the Gentiles who as Paul notes in those 3 chapters in Romans, are the beneficiaries of Israel's unbelief. But its even more clearly understood with Isaiah 56:8, huh John!!? :fadein:

But this is all confusion to those who believe God is finished with Israel despite all the prophecies yet to be fulfilled, huh John?!! ;-)
 
J

John the Baptist

Guest
Scott said:
Just in case you missed this post JtB.

Scott said:
I mean you haven't asked any question or made any points. What is supposed to be interesting?
I've made this point before, so its very likely its only going to fall on deaf ears again but oh well. Could it be JtB, that what Jesus says in John 10:16, He is simply alluding to what Paul explains further in Romans 9, 10, & 11. Its not so complicated when we understand this allusion is to the Gentiles who as Paul notes in those 3 chapters in Romans, are the beneficiaries of Israel's unbelief. But its even more clearly understood with Isaiah 56:8, huh John!!? :fadein:

But this is all confusion to those who believe God is finished with Israel despite all the prophecies yet to be fulfilled, huh John?!! ;-)

****
NO, Like I say, we just do not read the Word alike. See again Titus 3:9-11??

Anyway, Revelation 17:1-5 & verse 5 speaks of the Earths history. O' Yes, Ecclesiastes 1:9-10 & Ecclesiastes 3:15. Like I said before I BELIEVE THIS!!

Then comes Revelation 18:4's WARNING!! To the Master's REAL BELIEVERS in the wrong santanic folds.
And No, Saul (Paul) was not around as of yet. The New church by name was already being formed as the new fold. Actually they were the old fold! :fadein: Israel of old stayed put, their 'house BECAME DESOLATE (Matthew 23:38) of CHRIST (not 70 AD) & the new leader took over who is satan. Compare Revelation 3:9.

Anyway, you see, we do not have much in unity.
---John
 

Scott

Member
Joined
May 2, 2003
Messages
2,070
NO, Like I say, we just do not read the Word alike. See again Titus 3:9-11??
I'm really feeling the love from you now JtB. Take a look at what those verses were in reference to in Titus 1:10-16. Hide behind some scripture and judge a person you've never met in person face to face or observed the kind of person they are is foolishness. You made the comment to Sputnik about 'what are you made of'. Why don't you be a man and defend your doctrine instead of trying to turn this into a personal issue with a person whom you've never seen.

Israel of old stayed put, their 'house BECAME DESOLATE (Matthew 23:38) of CHRIST (not 70 AD) & the new leader took over who is satan.
Is that where you give up on Israel?! Matthew 24 could have done wonders for your understanding had you read it. Israel has experienced a hardening but God is not done with them. I gave you ample scripture in Romans 9, 10, & 11 took look at concerning it. Take a look at Zephaniah 3 also.

the new leader took over who is satan. Compare Revelation 3:9.
You are taking something out of the verse in regards to the Jewish people that was not even said. Consider John 8:44, Romans 8:8-10, Romans 11:23, Romans 11:28, and Zephaniah 3:11-12. These verses are a great summation of Israel and how God will deal with those who continue to reject Him and fulfilling His promise with those who will come to believe.

Anyway, you see, we do not have much in unity.
I'm not a ecumenist, nor am I confined to a doctrine based soley on a few verses. I'm here to let you know God's Word says much more on many of these discussions than you've been either unwilling or unaware of including in your posts. What good is leaving the truth half told?!!?
 
J

John the Baptist

Guest
Quote:
NO, Like I say, we just do not read the Word alike. See again Titus 3:9-11??


You say:
I'm really feeling the love from you now JtB. Take a look at what those verses were in reference to in Titus 1:10-16. Hide behind some scripture and judge a person you've never met in person face to face or observed the kind of person they are is foolishness. You made the comment to Sputnik about 'what are you made of'. Why don't you be a man and defend your doctrine instead of trying to turn this into a personal issue with a person whom you've never seen.

****
You judge this statement of mine as a personal issue?
:wink:

You be the judge!

John
 

Scott

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Joined
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Messages
2,070
You judge this statement of mine as a personal issue?
You made a reference to Titus as your reasoning for not continuing discussion. I'm assuming you wanted to apply all the verse not just some or parts. Is not any wonder to me that you never have a meaningful or long discussion with anyone on these forums. This would only lead me to believe that you are never willing to admit you are wrong or see a better answer than the one you've been trying to teach. If you were to give an honest answer...(would you though???), you would admit that I've offered some very good and more importantly Biblically supported response that effectively refute doctrine you've presented. But if you want to apply Titus 3:9-11 to me and take the low road out of Dodge, so be it. Lets be clear about one thing though, your ideas would most assuredly be considered the heretical one. But that would probably only make you smile and think 'we've got a lot of opposition so we must be doing something right.' Unfortunately, Biblically that self-perception holds no water.
 

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