WAS THE LAW FULFILLED OR ABOLISHED?

[Blood Bought 1953]

Faith Only is not biblical.

Please post some verses where Jesus says all we have to do is to believe in Him and we will be saved.

He spent over 3 years teaching HOW one is to enter into the Kingdom of God here on earth AND REMAIN THERE.

Here are some statements Jesus made:

Matthew 4:17
"Repent for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand."

What does REPENT mean?
Is something required to be DONE?

Matthew 5:20
20“For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.

The Pharisees followed the Law,,,so what could Jesus have meant?
He said He did not come to abolish the Law.


Matthew 5:48
"Be perfect, as your Father in heaven is perfect".

Man cannot be perfect...so what does this mean?
Does it require some action?


Matthew 7:21
"Not everyone who cries Lord, Lord, will enter into the Kingdom of heaven,
but he who does the will of My Father..."


Matthew 7:24
"therefore anyone who hears these words of Mine, and ACTS UPON THEM, may be compared to a wise man, who built his house upon the rock."

What words?
What acts?


You see BB,,,,Jesus did NOT teach Faith Only.
And it would be prudent to repeat what Jesus taught and not what
some churches teach.

Faith Only is not biblical.

Please post some verses where Jesus says all we have to do is to believe in Him and we will be saved.

He spent over 3 years teaching HOW one is to enter into the Kingdom of God here on earth AND REMAIN THERE.

Here are some statements Jesus made:

Matthew 4:17
"Repent for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand."

What does REPENT mean?
Is something required to be DONE?

Matthew 5:20
20“For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.

The Pharisees followed the Law,,,so what could Jesus have meant?
He said He did not come to abolish the Law.


Matthew 5:48
"Be perfect, as your Father in heaven is perfect".

Man cannot be perfect...so what does this mean?
Does it require some action?


Matthew 7:21
"Not everyone who cries Lord, Lord, will enter into the Kingdom of heaven,
but he who does the will of My Father..."


Matthew 7:24
"therefore anyone who hears these words of Mine, and ACTS UPON THEM, may be compared to a wise man, who built his house upon the rock."

What words?
What acts?


You see BB,,,,Jesus did NOT teach Faith Only.
And it would be prudent to repeat what Jesus taught and not what
some churches teach.

You asked for them......here they are...


[Jhn 3:15-16, 18, 36 NIV] 15 that everyone who believesmay have eternal life in him." 16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. ... 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God's one and only Son. ... 36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on them.

[Jhn 5:24 NIV] 24 "Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

[Jhn 6:35, 40, 47 NIV] 35 Then Jesus declared, "I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty. ... 40 For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day." ... 47 Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life.

[Jhn 11:25 NIV] 25 Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die;

[Jhn 12:44, 46 NIV] 44 Then Jesus cried out, "Whoever believes in me does not believe in me only, but in the one who sent me. ... 46 I have come into the world as a light, so that no one who believes in me should stay in darkness.

[Jhn 20:31 NIV] 31 But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

This side of the Cross all we have to do is BELIEVE the Gospel Of 1Cor 15:1-4....... it is a Promise from Jesus.....Faith is simply Taking God at His Word .....that is what I do.....It is impossible for God to lie.....God says that if we come to Him through His Son , Jesus Christ ......He will Save Us to the UTTERMOST.....I “ did” my part— I put my Faith in His Son— now the Ball is in HIS Court......what a Relief It is to Rest in That and many other Promises Of Eternal Security.....I do as Commanded in Heb 3 and 4 and “rest” in His Gospel and let HIM do the Task Of Transforming me into the Image Of His Son...... Letting “ Jesus , take the Wheel” is good advice......Its been fun over the years watching Him Change me from the inside out— still far from Perfect, but living a life more pleasing to Him all the time.....He gets ALL the Glory— I get none.I can live with that.....God Bless....

 

[Tradidi]

Please post some verses where Jesus says all we have to do is to believe in Him and we will be saved.

You asked for them......here they are...

James 2:19 — Thou believest that there is one God. Thou dost well: the devils also believe and tremble.

Does this mean the devils will be saved too?

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

James 2:19 — Thou believest that there is one God. Thou dost well: the devils also believe and tremble.

Does this mean the devils will be saved too?

Nope.....unless we can find a Bible Verse that says, “By Grace you have been Saved ,through believing that there is “ one God”
Most , if not ALL, Pagan Religions Back In Biblical worshipped dozens and sometimes thousands of false gods .....Some people thought they were “ Hot Stuff” because they at least got one thing right.....they believed in ONE God instead of many. Well, whoopee! They were on the Right Track, But Believing THAT fact only showed that they had a little bit of sense — it has nothing to do anybody’s Salvation. Believing Facts do not Save.Turning to God as a lost Sinner, with Faith in the Shed Blood Of Jesus Christ Plus Nothing Else is the only thing that saves.Let me Know when Demons start Repenting and Turning to Jesus for Salvation......then we might have something......don’t hold you breath....

 

[GodsGrace]

James 2:19 — Thou believest that there is one God. Thou dost well: the devils also believe and tremble.

Does this mean the devils will be saved too?

Gosh Tradidi,,,I sure don't think the devils will be saved !!
It's good to see you here!

I'll have to go back and see what I wrote....
no time now.
Later....

 

[JLB]

James 2:19 — Thou believest that there is one God. Thou dost well: the devils also believe and tremble.

Does this mean the devils will be saved too?

Welcome brother.

Glad to have you here in our community.

God bless you and your household.


JLB

 

[GodsGrace]

James 2:19 — Thou believest that there is one God. Thou dost well: the devils also believe and tremble.

Does this mean the devils will be saved too?

Hey Tradidi,,,,
I went back and looked. I lost track of what was going on here.

Yeah. Blood Bought 1953 does believe in Faith Only...
A movement I cannot agree with since the entire N.T. attests to the fact that we must also OBEY God.

So, good point on the devil also believing and not being saved.

 

[JLB]

Hey Tradidi,,,,
I went back and looked. I lost track of what was going on here.

Yeah. Blood Bought 1953 does believe in Faith Only...
A movement I cannot agree with since the entire N.T. attests to the fact that we must also OBEY God.

So, good point on the devil also believing and not being saved.

Yes. Faith alone, all by itself is dead, and can not save.

Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
James 2:17


However, the “work” James is referring to is obedience to God to offer his son Isaac on the altar.

This principle of faith is called by Paul; the obedience of faith.


But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: Romans 16:26




JLB

 

[GodsGrace]

You asked for them......here they are...


[Jhn 3:15-16, 18, 36 NIV] 15 that everyone who believesmay have eternal life in him." 16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. ... 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God's one and only Son. ... 36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on them.

[Jhn 5:24 NIV] 24 "Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

[Jhn 6:35, 40, 47 NIV] 35 Then Jesus declared, "I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty. ... 40 For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day." ... 47 Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life.

[Jhn 11:25 NIV] 25 Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die;

[Jhn 12:44, 46 NIV] 44 Then Jesus cried out, "Whoever believes in me does not believe in me only, but in the one who sent me. ... 46 I have come into the world as a light, so that no one who believes in me should stay in darkness.

[Jhn 20:31 NIV] 31 But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

This side of the Cross all we have to do is BELIEVE the Gospel Of 1Cor 15:1-4....... it is a Promise from Jesus.....Faith is simply Taking God at His Word .....that is what I do.....It is impossible for God to lie.....God says that if we come to Him through His Son , Jesus Christ ......He will Save Us to the UTTERMOST.....I “ did” my part— I put my Faith in His Son— now the Ball is in HIS Court......what a Relief It is to Rest in That and many other Promises Of Eternal Security.....I do as Commanded in Heb 3 and 4 and “rest” in His Gospel and let HIM do the Task Of Transforming me into the Image Of His Son...... Letting “ Jesus , take the Wheel” is good advice......Its been fun over the years watching Him Change me from the inside out— still far from Perfect, but living a life more pleasing to Him all the time.....He gets ALL the Glory— I get none.I can live with that.....God Bless....

Hi BB,,,
I'm so sorry, I think I missed this. Been really busy lately.

As to all your verses that you posted with the word BELIEVE,,,,
If someone does not believe in God,,,I would fear for their soul,,,although I leave the final outcome up to God.

However, do you not know that the word BELIEVE also has ingrained into it the notion of OBEDIENCE?

If we BELIEVE in someone we DO as that person teaches.



If pisteuo is followed by the Greek preposition epi, “on,” it can be rendered “believe in” or believe on.” At Matthew 27:42, it reads, “we will believe in him [i.e., Jesus].” At Acts 16:31, it reads “And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved …” (KJV, UASV similarly) What is the difference between “believing in Jesus” and “believing on Jesus”? Believing in Jesus is a merely acknowledging that he exists while believing on Jesus is to accept absolutely, having no doubt or uncertainty, trusting in, putting faith in or trust in, exercising faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Faith is NOT so much something Christians have but rather something Christians do.

source: https://christianpublishinghouse.co...k-verb-pisteuo-rendered-differently-at-times/


If the above does not convince you, I have MUCH more regarding BELIEF.....
but later.

 

[JLB]

Nope.....unless we can find a Bible Verse that says, “By Grace you have been Saved ,through believing that there is “ one God”
Most , if not ALL, Pagan Religions Back In Biblical worshipped dozens and sometimes thousands of false gods .....Some people thought they were “ Hot Stuff” because they at least got one thing right.....they believed in ONE God instead of many. Well, whoopee! They were on the Right Track, But Believing THAT fact only showed that they had a little bit of sense — it has nothing to do anybody’s Salvation. Believing Facts do not Save.Turning to God as a lost Sinner, with Faith in the Shed Blood Of Jesus Christ Plus Nothing Else is the only thing that saves.Let me Know when Demons start Repenting and Turning to Jesus for Salvation......then we might have something......don’t hold you breath....

Is the eternal Godhead one God?



To put it another way, do you think that demons believe Jesus Christ is Lord, that He is the Son of God?



JLB

 

[Drew]

Why is it not ok to murder if the OT Law is "retired" and dead to the Christian?

Well, for starters we can say with high confidence that Paul makes a very strong case that the Holy Spirit replaces the Law as the guide for the believer. And remember: the Law of Moses never applied to anyone other than a Jew. Surely you do not believe that this means it was ever OK for a Gentile to commit murder?

 

[JLB]

the Law of Moses never applied to anyone other than a Jew.

So true. The law of Moses itself defined and seperarted Jew Gentile, the circumcised from the uncircumcised.

Paul calls it the middle wall of separation. The enmity between Jew and Gentile.


For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, Ephesians 2:14-15.


The New Covenant in His blood is what brings the two back together in Him, creating one new man after the image of Christ... thus making peace.


The Spirit Himself circumcises the hearts of those born again, fulfilling what the fleshly circumcision merely pointed to.


I find that those in error, emphasize the fleshly circumcision while ignoring the significance of the new birth, whereby we undergo a circumcision made without hands.


For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but a new creation. Galatians 6:15




JLB

 

[GodsGrace]

Maybe that is how it is supposed to be for them. Meaning, maybe they are not his and will not really hear his voice.

I think we are on different pages though when it comes to salvation. God will not give the Spirit of truth to someone and then take it away.

Sorry LTD...I do believe I never answered this.

I don't think God gives the Spirit to someone and then takes it away.
I believe we must desire the Spirit
and we can also abandon the Spirit.
It's up to us,,,not God.
Romans 10:9

God will that all men be saved.
1 Timothy 2:4

2 Timothy 1:8-9 So do not be ashamed to testify about our Lord, or ashamed of me his prisoner. But join with me in suffering for the gospel, by the power of God, who has saved us and called us to holy life - not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. (who has saved us)

Yes, it is God that has saved us
Psalm 37:39
The salvation of the righteous is from the Lord .....

I've been reading people's interpretations of salvation and like I've said before on this website, the only people who receive the Spirit of truth are the people in
Luke 8:15 But the seed on good soil stands for those with a noble and good heart, who hear the word, retain it, and by persevering produce a crop.

I agree that by persevering one will produce a good crop.
But what about those in Luke 8:13....
It is JESUS that says they believed for a while...it was temporary.
How does one overlook this?
John 3:16 Whoever believes in HIM will not perish...
BELIEVE is the key word...
In luke 8:13 Jesus said the believed temporarily.

[/QUOTE]The rest of the people in the parable of the sower were so called believers at certain points, but unless their hearts take a different direction.....they will not be given the truth completely. The only people that are "given" the Spirit of truth are the good soil people
[/QUOTE]
What do you mean by "they will not be given the truth completely"?
What IS the complete truth? (don't turn gnostic on me!)
Isn't it John 3:16?
16“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

 

[Son of Israel]

Yes, Jesus fulfilled the law;

Act_3:18 But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.

Yes, in doing so, the law was finished/abolished/nailed to the cross;

Col_2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
2Co_3:13 And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
Eph_2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
2Ti_1:10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

The Mosaic law is fulfilled and abolished, yes.

Now we who are of the New Everlasting Covenant in Christ's blood, are of the New Law;

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
Rom 8:2 For the >>>law of the Spirit of life<<< in Christ Jesus has set me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:3 For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do: sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh,
Rom 8:4 in order that the just requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

 

[Tradidi]

It's good to see you here!

Welcome brother.

Glad to have you here in our community.

God bless you and your household.

JLB

Thank you for the welcome!

Nope.....unless we can find a Bible Verse that says, “By Grace you have been Saved ,through believing that there is “ one God”
Most , if not ALL, Pagan Religions Back In Biblical worshipped dozens and sometimes thousands of false gods .....Some people thought they were “ Hot Stuff” because they at least got one thing right.....they believed in ONE God instead of many. Well, whoopee! They were on the Right Track, But Believing THAT fact only showed that they had a little bit of sense — it has nothing to do anybody’s Salvation. Believing Facts do not Save.Turning to God as a lost Sinner, with Faith in the Shed Blood Of Jesus Christ Plus Nothing Else is the only thing that saves.Let me Know when Demons start Repenting and Turning to Jesus for Salvation......then we might have something......don’t hold you breath....

You said something like "believing facts does not save." But what about "believing the fact that Jesus will save me?" Is that enough to BE saved? For example, if I believe that Jesus will save me and then ignore everything else He said, will I be saved? Or does the word "believe" imply or mean something else than just acknowledging your agreement with a fact?

You added that we need to "turn to God as a lost sinner, with faith," which seems to imply there is something else we need to do, i.e. to "turn to God". So the question them becomes, how do we turn to God? How does God know that we turned to Him?

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

Hey Tradidi,,,,
I went back and looked. I lost track of what was going on here.

Yeah. Blood Bought 1953 does believe in Faith Only...
A movement I cannot agree with since the entire N.T. attests to the fact that we must also OBEY God.

So, good point on the devil also believing and not being saved.

Yeah. Blood Bought 1953 does believe in Faith Only...
A movement I cannot agree with since the entire N.T. attests to the fact that we must also OBEY God.

Here is a proof that “ Faith Plus NOTHING” is ALL that is required to be Saved...

Remember the “ SinfulWoman” that poured the Perfume on Jesus .....the woman who used her hair to wipe up the tears that she had Shed upon His feet? Jesus told her “ Thy FAITH hath Saved you....Go In Peace”
Notice that their were no Conditions set on her Salvation.....No “ Go and Sin no more”.....No “ check in with me from time to time , I just need to make sure you have been Obedient Enough or verify that you have Repented from all of your Sins from this point forward.I got a little ahead of myself there when I said you were Saved.....I neglected to give you the Official “ Now That I received the Free Gift Of Salvation I have to EARN it by my Performance and Obedience” Pamphlet . It appears that I SAVED YOU simply because you Believed I was the One I claimed to be...Somehow I essentially said that you were Saved by FaitH Plus NOTHING....
Explain to me why I can’t be Saved in this same manner ...Faith Alone....

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

If we BELIEVE in someone we DO as that person teaches.

Exactly! We MUST do God’s Will ! What is the “ Will Of God?” My guess is that it has not changed since The Disciples asked that same question. God’s Will is fir us to “ BELIEVE On the One that He Sent”.......Do That one thing ....everything else that matters will follow that....

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

A movement I cannot agree with since the entire N.T. attests to the fact that we must also OBEY God.

The only thing we “ MUST” Obey is to Believe the Gospel Of Grace found in 1cor15:1-4....That will get you Saved unless you prefer to Add to it with Works which will have you “ Fall From Grace”..God Commands us to REST in that Gospel or be in a State Of “ UNBELIEF”.....You do NOT want to die in this State......

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

Yes. Faith alone, all by itself is dead, and can not save.

Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
James 2:17


However, the “work” James is referring to is obedience to God to offer his son Isaac on the altar.

This principle of faith is called by Paul; the obedience of faith.


But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: Romans 16:26




JLB

Faith Plus Nothing is what Saves......Dead Faith beats the pants off of NO FAITH.....The Latter will get you Damned— The Former Will cost you Blessings in this lifetime and a lack of Rewards in the Next One....

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

Is the eternal Godhead one God?



To put it another way, do you think that demons believe Jesus Christ is Lord, that He is the Son of God?



JLB

The Demons know EXACTLY who Jesus is....So do I.
The difference is this: Without Faith it is “ Impossible “ to-please God. I have never Seen God and I have never Spoken to God— for me, it takes Faith to even Believe He exists , much less to put the Fate of my Eternal Soul in His Hands. Satan Believes all Of these things because he has SEEN them. It takes Zero Faith to Believe something if you have witnessed it in person like Satan and his Evil Cohorts Have.He is absolutely excluded from the World Of Faith. He showed “ his” trust in God Many Millennia ago when he and a third of Heaven decided to war against God.....So much for any chance that he may ever have had — He Blew it....

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

Thank you for the welcome!


You said something like "believing facts does not save." But what about "believing the fact that Jesus will save me?" Is that enough to BE saved? For example, if I believe that Jesus will save me and then ignore everything else He said, will I be saved? Or does the word "believe" imply or mean something else than just acknowledging your agreement with a fact?

You added that we need to "turn to God as a lost sinner, with faith," which seems to imply there is something else we need to do, i.e. to "turn to God". So the question them becomes, how do we turn to God? How does God know that we turned to Him?

It is a “FACT” that Jesus Saves. That FACT , if it just kinda sits there will do nobody any good.One must BELIEVE that Fact.If one truly Believes it , the rest will take care of itself.If one is blessed enough to see the NEED to be Saved ( by the Conviction Of The Holy Spirit ) and the FACT that he is headed for Hell like a speeding bullet , He will follow up on that Belief and know what to do.....” Anybody that asks to be Saved will be Saved”
“Turning to God” is what Repentance is all about..... “ TURN to Me and I will Turn to You” .....wanna see what this Repentance looks like? Read Luke18:9......Do as this Guy did and you will find Salvation.....God has made it sooooo easy— IF you have “ ContriteHeart”...... like this Publican did......