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WalterandDebbie

Sabbath Overseer
Monday 1-11-21 Tevet 26, 5781 2nd. day of the weekly cycle,
22nd. Winter Day

Wealth

Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal: 20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:

Matthew Six:19-34

19 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:

20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:

21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

23 But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!

24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

25 Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?

26 Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they?

27 Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature?

28 And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin:

29 And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.

30 Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?

31 Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?

32 (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek:) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.

33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

34 Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.

Love always, Walter and Debbie
 
Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth
So what if you are laying up the treasures for others?


For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
If a question of the heart, then it only concerns what your heart treasures and not what you actually have as far as money


No man can serve two masters
So does serving Jesus Christ automatically mean you won't have money?


But seek ye first the kingdom of God

Yes - Yes - Yes - but we don't really do that, so we?

I have been posting about the Kingdom of God and it really bothers many Christians that I explain we have a King in Jesus Christ and He has a Kingdom (angels) that He sends to help us. BUT YES - seek first the Kingdom of God and all these things will be added to you!! What does "ALL THESE THINGS MEAN" - does it not mean "ALL" - which would make you pretty rich in some sense or another!!

Jesus didn't have a place to lay His head, but king Solomon, when he asked for wisdom, knowledge, and understanding was told by God that because of that request he was also going to be given riches. We need to follow the Lord, talk to Him, and listen to Him. He made each of us for a purpose and He can/will give us what we need for that purpose. If the purpose is to show people that it is not about money, then He might have you in animal skins in the desert eating bugs. If His purpose for you is to show that God can establish a wise king on earth, and that wisdom from God can give you great riches, then that is His purpose. So it is not about riches, but His purpose. For that we do need to seek first the Kingdom of God and stop making it about other things, like having or not having money!!
 
Matthew 6:19-34 is part of the sermon on the Mount of Olives as the teaching of Christ simply put is that believing and trusting in Christ while here on earth is more important in serving Him as per Matthew 25:35-40 than to be corrupted by those treasures/wealth that you accumulate as these things begin to control you and become the treasures of you heart, but will all eventually pass away leaving you empty and void of Christ in your life. This is why we can not serve two masters, one being those things that control us and the other being Christ as we will hold one above the other.

Our treasures we store up in heaven are those rewards as a faithful servant for what we have done here on earth for Christ sake per Matthew 25:35-40.

There is nothing wrong with having riches, but what good is it if you only store them up for yourself instead of helping others who struggle. Greed is an evil master.
 
There is nothing wrong with having riches, but what good is it if you only store them up for yourself instead of helping others who struggle. Greed is an evil master.

I generally kind of agree with that, but not quite, or at least not directly like that.

What is good is that we seek the Lord Jesus Christ and listen to Him with a faith that has us doing what He wants us to do.

There are many purposes that He can have for us, but all purposes should come from Him, and helping others who struggle can be done in many ways, and indeed many ways which are better than giving them money or things that can be bought with money.

For example, was it not Peter who looked at a man and said something like money I have not but what I have I will give you, and the man was healed? So don't we have something to help others which is more important to them than money?

And was it not God who told the Israelites to collect riches from the Egyptians before leaving, and that gold was used to make things for the temple of God which they themselves kept in their midst.

So it is that our purpose is to follow the instructions that Lord has for us, and to not follow other spirits which are not listening to and serving the Lord, like mammon - that spirit that has us seeking to be rich in order to have things for us but not according to what the Lord says to us.

So really it is not about being rich or poor, giving to the needy or not, but about following the Lord by listening to Him by faith. He of course is love and cares about people. That might mean giving them money, but it might not!

I remember one time when I was helping with a Christian ministry which feed the homeless. So I was passing our meals, when the Lord point out a particular homeless man and the Lord tole me to give him $20, so I did. Yet I also told the Lord that if He wanted I could give him $100. The Lord responded saying, "What do you want to do Karl, kill him" The went on to explain that the man had a drinking problem and that if I gave him $20 he would be a bit wise as to what to spend it on for the week, but if I gave him $100 the man would be drunk the entire week.

The point is that we really don't know what all is going on, only he does. Yes, He wants to help people but we need to do it just as he tells us.
 
I generally kind of agree with that, but not quite, or at least not directly like that.

What is good is that we seek the Lord Jesus Christ and listen to Him with a faith that has us doing what He wants us to do.

There are many purposes that He can have for us, but all purposes should come from Him, and helping others who struggle can be done in many ways, and indeed many ways which are better than giving them money or things that can be bought with money.

For example, was it not Peter who looked at a man and said something like money I have not but what I have I will give you, and the man was healed? So don't we have something to help others which is more important to them than money?

And was it not God who told the Israelites to collect riches from the Egyptians before leaving, and that gold was used to make things for the temple of God which they themselves kept in their midst.

So it is that our purpose is to follow the instructions that Lord has for us, and to not follow other spirits which are not listening to and serving the Lord, like mammon - that spirit that has us seeking to be rich in order to have things for us but not according to what the Lord says to us.

So really it is not about being rich or poor, giving to the needy or not, but about following the Lord by listening to Him by faith. He of course is love and cares about people. That might mean giving them money, but it might not!

I remember one time when I was helping with a Christian ministry which feed the homeless. So I was passing our meals, when the Lord point out a particular homeless man and the Lord tole me to give him $20, so I did. Yet I also told the Lord that if He wanted I could give him $100. The Lord responded saying, "What do you want to do Karl, kill him" The went on to explain that the man had a drinking problem and that if I gave him $20 he would be a bit wise as to what to spend it on for the week, but if I gave him $100 the man would be drunk the entire week.

The point is that we really don't know what all is going on, only he does. Yes, He wants to help people but we need to do it just as he tells us.
Faith, belief and listening to the Lord is all well and good as we need to listen. This is why I quoted Matthew 25:35-40 as it is also given in James 1:27 as these are the continued works of the Lord He told us to follow in. Yes, there are many ways we can help others that does not involve money, but when I said about those who struggle it was geared more to helping them pay bills, to keep a roof over their head and to help put food on their table until they are able to do for themselves.

I think back in the day how my husband and I struggled when we first got married and how others in their generosity helped us and as in helping others this shows the love of God and allows the light of Christ shine out from us in hopes it draws others to Him. There are many forms of wealth, but if we share not that of what we have then like I said, greed becomes our master and we can not serve God and manna.
 
There are many forms of wealth, but if we share not that of what we have then like I said, greed becomes our master and we can not serve God and manna.

The above thinking can get us into what is often called "works", as opposed to "faith".

The ways to keep "greed" from becoming your master is to keep Jesus Christ as your master!! Serve Him!!

Now if He is your master then whatever you have is His, is it not? So who are you to even give it away without talking to Him. Oh - He is a loving master and He will certainly understand and might even congratulate you on taking the opportunity to help others, but still we need to talk to Him. So does that mean you are not going to give. What are we saying, that God is not a giving person??? Of course He is, but He is also wise far beyond us - or do we think we are smarter that God?

So we don't keep greed from being our master by sometimes giving what we count are ours. We keep greed from being our master by making the Lord or lords our master and doing what He says!!!

There is a story in the Bible about a lady that takes this very expensive perfume and pours it over Jesus, and the disciples get all upset with her because they could have sold it and given it to the poor!

They were His disciples, but they had something to learn!!! What they needed to learn was that they needed to listen to the Lord!!!

Because they didn't listen like they should have, they didn't know the plan. They didn't understand what was going on. This lady they got on to knew the plan!! Jesus was going to the cross and the perfume was concerning that preparation, which she obviously knew and had heard about, where as His disciple who should have had better understanding did know about because they had just not been paying attention!!!

As His disciples, we need to listen and find out what is going on. We need to know the plans God has!!! Yet sometime we start assuming things. Yeah - we see where the Lord is concerned with helping the poor, so He had us giving, but it is not about the giving it is about having our Lord as our master - so we need to listen!! So be like the lady who listened and did the correct thing with the valuable perfume instead of the silly disciples who assumed they knew!
 
The above thinking can get us into what is often called "works", as opposed to "faith".

The ways to keep "greed" from becoming your master is to keep Jesus Christ as your master!! Serve Him!!

Now if He is your master then whatever you have is His, is it not? So who are you to even give it away without talking to Him. Oh - He is a loving master and He will certainly understand and might even congratulate you on taking the opportunity to help others, but still we need to talk to Him. So does that mean you are not going to give. What are we saying, that God is not a giving person??? Of course He is, but He is also wise far beyond us - or do we think we are smarter that God?

So we don't keep greed from being our master by sometimes giving what we count are ours. We keep greed from being our master by making the Lord or lords our master and doing what He says!!!

There is a story in the Bible about a lady that takes this very expensive perfume and pours it over Jesus, and the disciples get all upset with her because they could have sold it and given it to the poor!

They were His disciples, but they had something to learn!!! What they needed to learn was that they needed to listen to the Lord!!!

Because they didn't listen like they should have, they didn't know the plan. They didn't understand what was going on. This lady they got on to knew the plan!! Jesus was going to the cross and the perfume was concerning that preparation, which she obviously knew and had heard about, where as His disciple who should have had better understanding did know about because they had just not been paying attention!!!

As His disciples, we need to listen and find out what is going on. We need to know the plans God has!!! Yet sometime we start assuming things. Yeah - we see where the Lord is concerned with helping the poor, so He had us giving, but it is not about the giving it is about having our Lord as our master - so we need to listen!! So be like the lady who listened and did the correct thing with the valuable perfume instead of the silly disciples who assumed they knew!
Faith without works is dead faith. It would be like, yes I believe in Jesus, but so did the demons and trembled at His name, James 2:19. The same with the sons of Sceva in Acts19:11-20 where the evil spirit leaped on them and overcame these men because they believed in the name of Jesus, but not on Jesus being the Messiah come to them nor understood what He taught.

Wealth includes not only money, but wealth of knowledge, skills, wisdom and understanding. It's all well and good to listen and hear what the Lord wants to speak to us, but if we are only hearers and not doers than our salvation is in vain.

Give a man a fish and he eats one time, teach a man to fish and he will always have food.
 
Faith without works is dead faith.

Yeah - you don't have faith in God if you are not doing things for Him!! But it is for Him!!

Doing works - that is to say: doing what you just think is right is not doing things for Him!! It is not making Him your Lord!!


There is a big difference between Him being Lord and you being your lord, and it is called leaning on your own understanding!

Prov 3:5,6 Trust in the LORD with all your heart
And do not lean on your own understanding.
In all your ways acknowledge Him,
And He will make your paths straight.

The disciples in the earlier example were leaning on their own understanding when they said that the perfume could be sold and the money given to the poor. Even in that situation mammon was their Lord and not Jesus Christ. Thus He had to reprove and correct them, because they had made it about the money instead of about Him!

The lady pouring perfume over Him was also taking action and indeed she was making a great sacrifice, but she was obviously doing it because she had heard from the Holy Spirit, or how else did she know to prepare Him for the upcoming burial?

Mark 14:8 “She has done what she could; she has anointed My body beforehand for the burial.

The disciples didn't even know about the upcoming burial, but she did. She had been hearing from the Lord, but even today we don't know what is going on and what to do because we don't listen. We do "works" according to our understanding instead of listening to Him and acknowledging Him in all our ways. So our paths are not straight, but we don't understand, do we?

That lady was a very impressive lady. She had obviously hear from God and made a great sacrifice, where as His disciples were looking to take what she had, sale it, and distribute it to the poor for their glorification. Does that happen today? Maybe even with those at Christian churches calling themselves His disciples?

Of course it does. There is nothing new under the sun. We need to turn back to Him, making Him our Lord! We need to stop leaning on our understanding! If He is your Lord and master then why don't we yet understand that the heavens and the earth are His???

If everything was made by Him, including you, then doesn't He need to be sought when distributing it?

But we want it to be ours, not His. We want us to be ours, when He made us. We don't want Him to control our lives, do we. We thus proclaim ourselves righteous by our "good works" to glorify ourselves instead of listening to Him and doing what He says.

Ok - He gave us freewill and that because He loves us. And we can use our freewill, but if He is our Lord we are still going to check with Him, right?

There are things I really like about Him and knowing Him as my Lord! One of the things I like about Him is how He asks me what I think. My thinking is clearly not close to His thinking, but when I seek Him He usually doesn't just go "Karl, Do this!" Oh- He does do that sometimes, but more often He comes back and asks me what I think should be done, and He listens to me.

He once told me:

The Holy Spirit once told me, "If you listen to the Lord He listens to you."

I think the Bible has it - Jn 15:7 “If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you.

There are people going around doing what they think is right according to their understanding but they don't seek Him and listen to Him. They are the ones which are referred to where you wrote:
hearers and not doers
The read the Bible but the Bible tells them that He stands at the door and knocks, so they don't open the door though they have heard the knocking. So they go about doing good works according to their understanding, instead of according to His understanding and they tell themselves they are hearing from Him when they don't! They are like the Pharisees and Sadducees who felt they knew the Lord because they read the Scriptures and did 'great works' according to their understanding.

If anyone truly is listening to the Lord they know that they are doing things that He tells them, and not because of their understanding. Therefore they testify about Him and His great understanding, and their testimony is true because He does exist. To them He is indeed their Lord, the one who gives them instructions. So they don't just say give money to the poor and that will make your righteous, but they say seek the Lord and that is counted to you as righteousness.

James when he wrote James 1:22 "But prove yourselves doers of the word, and not merely hearers who delude themselves." was telling us to listen to the Lord not just read the Bible!! Listening to the Lord might mean pouring perfume over Him because people are Him deep inside themselves and not listening to Him, so they think that if they give they have listened to Him when they haven't. The Pharisees gave, or have we not read that?

Luke 21:1-4 And He looked up and saw the rich putting their gifts into the treasury. And He saw a poor widow putting in two small copper coins. And He said, “Truly I say to you, this poor widow put in more than all of them; for they all out of their surplus put into the offering; but she out of her poverty put in all that she had to live on.”

Did you every think to ask why that poor widow put in the two small copper coins, which was all she had to live on in the first place???????

That was not require by the Law was it? She did it because she heard the Lord and gave according to what she heard from God, not according to the Law - or have you not heard? He might, for His purpose, ask you to give all you have!! But if you don't listen to Him then you give according to your understanding of the Law, and are not those doers of the word - though you might think so because you say to yourself that He spoke the Law and I am thus doing what He said, forgetting that He says. so for your sake I have given you my two cents worth - That you might really come to know Him.

I mean look at what was written:

listening to the Lord is all well and good as we need to listen.

Listening to the Lord is not just "all well and good" as if we can just blow Him off!!! Listening to Him and doing what He says is the only way we can do the right thing!!!
 
People - The saying that Jesus Christ is your Lord means just that: He is your Lord who you hear from everyday called "Today"!

If He is your Lord you are indeed hearing from Him and if you are indeed hearing from Him "Today" you are going to be looking to do the things He tells you. You might not actually do everything He tells you, for a number of reasons, but He knows what you do and don't do and works to help you. You see that and so continue to seek Him!

The hearers who don't try and do what He tells them are those who ignore Him "Today". Though He stands at the door and knocks, they have not opened up to Him and have intentionally chosen to lean on their own understanding! Of them it is written that with their ears they don't hear or barely hear, so He is not their Lord!! And that type of faith will not save them, no matter how much they appear to give. Then, even there giving is an abomination to the Lord

Is 1:13 “Bring your worthless offerings no longer,
Incense is an abomination to Me.
New moon and sabbath, the calling of assemblies—
I cannot endure iniquity and the solemn assembly.

Is 1:17 Learn to do good;
Seek justice,
Reprove the ruthless,
Defend the orphan,
Plead for the widow.

Do you not know that seeking justice, true justice, is seeking the Lord???

I want to give you a story that to this day bothers me a bit.

Before I knew my wife she knew the Lord and faithfully went to church and tried to do what the church leaders told her, even putting what they said over the Lord. He taught her a lesson.

She was poor and did not have a car. She thus was very limited as to which jobs she could take or get. Her church insisted that she and all their member gave 10% of all she made, and so she did. They also wanted her attending a ministry school they had which also took much of her time and made it harder still on her. There was a short period of time when she did not have a place to live. One day she got so upset at the Lord and began to tell Him off. He then talked to her and told her, "Did I tell you to give 10%." He told her to take the 10 % and get a car. That enabled her to get a better job and a full time job. That got her out of her situation. They didn't Seek Justice!! They were not interested in defending the orphans, pleading for the widows, and helping others. They were really interested in promoting their agenda for the Lord as they saw it!!

Though it was a Christian church and at one point got fairly big with well over a thousand members, God reduced it in size and finally did away with it. Now let me compare that with another Christian church. That pastor started small and took collections. One day the Lord told him to put his trust in Him and don't take collections, just put a box for donations in the back. The church grew and grew and got very big my just trusting the Lord. Oh - sometimes that pastor will remind people of the boxes, but not often. What He does more often is to remind people to listen to the Lord and obey Him - though I would like him to remind us more.

By listening to the Lord, that church grew and grew and has a collection of buildings doing numerous things to help people. We truly need to understand how the Lord works. He leads!
 
WalterandDebbie said:
Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth
I quoted what Jesus said above

You asked:
So what if you are laying up the treasures for others?

I'm saying, if you understand what He just said, I would try to save some for others, because I remember what He also said to sell what you have over, and give alms to the poor.

WalterandDebbie said:
No man can serve two masters
You said:

So does serving Jesus Christ automatically mean you won't have money?

No Sir, a person can have money by serving The Lord

To me, I use to have two masters, one with habits or lusts, etc.

but now I can do all things through Christ.

Love, Walter
 
I quoted what Jesus said above

You asked:
So what if you are laying up the treasures for others?

I'm saying, if you understand what He just said, I would try to save some for others, because I remember what He also said to sell what you have over, and give alms to the poor.

I like the post. It has more thought to it, but it is still missing the important part!

The Bible has what He said a couple thousands of years ago, so He didn't just say that. He does still say that, but those words are from the Scriptures and not just said to you! What you need is what He has to say to you "Today"!!

Reading what He said helps you understand His personality, so we can learn from it and it can help us recognize His voice to us Today. He does just say things to us and He still has the same personality, but the writing are what He said thousands of years ago.

Because His personality hasn't changed, He is not going to tell you to save up treasures for yourself, or is He? Actually He might, but that because we have problems and He needs to work with us. For example there is a prayer in the Bible that goes something like, "Don't make me to rich that I forget about You, and don't make me so poor that I get upset with You"

Prov 30:8 Give me neither poverty nor riches; Feed me with the food that is my portion,

The portion that we are suppose to have is the portion that we should want. So we need to talk to Him to get an idea of what that should be.

Gen 24:35 “The LORD has greatly blessed my master, so that he has become rich; and He has given him flocks and herds, and silver and gold, and servants and maids, and camels and donkeys.

Abraham heard from the Lord and the Lord greatly blessed Abraham. We don't know all God's thinking for making Abraham rich, but He did. So being rich can be a blessing from God!

2 Sam 2:7 “The LORD makes poor and rich; He brings low, He also exalts.

Now the above verse explains that it is the Lord who makes people rich or poor, but it does not give us His reasons. Being rich might be a curse on us or it might be a blessing for us. So what we need to do is talk to Him about what He wants, and reason with Him concerning our thoughts so we can get them corrected. It is about always about talking with Him to find out His thinking! Which is to say we do truly need to find out what He just said to us!! Reading the Bible gives us a clue to His personality, but they true "just said" to us is what's really important!

So is the following statement true? " if you understand what He just said, I would try to save some for others"
Maybe it is or maybe it is not. We have to actually seek His voice and what He has to say to us personally!
 
I like the post. It has more thought to it, but it is still missing the important part!

The Bible has what He said a couple thousands of years ago, so He didn't just say that. He does still say that, but those words are from the Scriptures and not just said to you! What you need is what He has to say to you "Today"!!

Reading what He said helps you understand His personality, so we can learn from it and it can help us recognize His voice to us Today. He does just say things to us and He still has the same personality, but the writing are what He said thousands of years ago.

Because His personality hasn't changed, He is not going to tell you to save up treasures for yourself, or is He? Actually He might, but that because we have problems and He needs to work with us. For example there is a prayer in the Bible that goes something like, "Don't make me to rich that I forget about You, and don't make me so poor that I get upset with You"

Prov 30:8 Give me neither poverty nor riches; Feed me with the food that is my portion,

The portion that we are suppose to have is the portion that we should want. So we need to talk to Him to get an idea of what that should be.

Gen 24:35 “The LORD has greatly blessed my master, so that he has become rich; and He has given him flocks and herds, and silver and gold, and servants and maids, and camels and donkeys.

Abraham heard from the Lord and the Lord greatly blessed Abraham. We don't know all God's thinking for making Abraham rich, but He did. So being rich can be a blessing from God!

2 Sam 2:7 “The LORD makes poor and rich; He brings low, He also exalts.

Now the above verse explains that it is the Lord who makes people rich or poor, but it does not give us His reasons. Being rich might be a curse on us or it might be a blessing for us. So what we need to do is talk to Him about what He wants, and reason with Him concerning our thoughts so we can get them corrected. It is about always about talking with Him to find out His thinking! Which is to say we do truly need to find out what He just said to us!! Reading the Bible gives us a clue to His personality, but they true "just said" to us is what's really important!

So is the following statement true? " if you understand what He just said, I would try to save some for others"
Maybe it is or maybe it is not. We have to actually seek His voice and what He has to say to us personally!

I like the post. It has more thought to it, but it is still missing the important part!
Yes I do understand what you are saying, but I don't think that it is missing anything, Thanks :)

Love, Walter
 
Listening to the Lord is not just "all well and good" as if we can just blow Him off!!! Listening to Him and doing what He says is the only way we can do the right thing!!!
That's what I said as it is all well and good that we listen to the Lord, but in your very long posts you make it sound like me and many others do not speak to Him or hear Him speak to us. It's not always audible in what the Lord wants to convey to us, but that we recognize that small still voice that needs no audible words to speak as He speaks to us through His Holy Spirit teaching us what He has already said. Not everyone hears the audible, but hears Him speak to their heart.
 
What you need is what He has to say to you "Today"!!
There is nothing new under the sun as to what God has already spoken, given to Christ to speak, given to the Prophets and disciples what to write and to that of the Holy Spirit who teaches us all things and brings those things back to our remembrance when needed.

God is the same yesterday, today and forever and has no new words to speak, but can audibly give us instructions to those areas of His ministry He wants to use us in for a time and purpose. If we are hearers and doers of His word than we will take whatever type of wealth we have and share it with others.
 
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