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Shekinahglory

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…16“Do not be afraid,” Elisha answered, “for those who are with us are more than those who are with them.” 17Then Elisha prayed, “O LORD, please open his eyes that he may see.” And the LORD opened the eyes of the young man, and he saw that the hills were full of horses and chariots of fire all around Elisha. 18As the Arameans came down against him, Elisha prayed to the LORD, “Please strike these people with blindness.” So He struck them with blindness, according to the word of Elisha.…2 Kings 6: 16- 18

How often we look at people, places or events and we are overwhelmed by the odds facing us. We don't need less overwhelming people, places and events we need more Elisha's opening our eyes. We see fine physically but it is spiritual vision we need. We serve a God who has done just about every type of miracle that can be done. The Lord, stopped the sun, opened a way through the sea and fed thousands from table scraps. John boldly states that if everything the Lord had done was written in books there would not be enough room for them all. We don't know why the Lord answers yes and answers no to others. But He does and faith is knowing that He does not do something that is right whatever He has done or left undone is right because He did it. He is the same yesterday, today and forever. The hills are the armies of the Living God Almighty are still more than those who are in array against us. His grace is sufficient and may my spiritual vision see the power and glory of our God who is present always working all things for our good. Open my eyes and the eyes of all your children Lord, please.
 
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…16“Do not be afraid,” Elisha answered, “for those who are with us are more than those who are with them.” 17Then Elisha prayed, “O LORD, please open his eyes that he may see.” And the LORD opened the eyes of the young man, and he saw that the hills were full of horses and chariots of fire all around Elisha. 18As the Arameans came down against him, Elisha prayed to the LORD, “Please strike these people with blindness.” So He struck them with blindness, according to the word of Elisha.…2 Kings 6: 16- 18

How often we look at people, places or events and we are overwhelmed by the odds facing us. We don't need less overwhelming people, places and events we need more Elisha's opening our eyes. We see fine physically but it is spiritual vision we need. We serve a God who has done just about every type of miracle that can be done. The Lord, stopped the sun, opened a way through the sea and fed thousands from table scraps. John boldly states that if everything the Lord had done was written in books there would not be enough room for them all. We don't know why the Lord answers yes and answers no to others. But He does and faith is knowing that He does not do something that is right whatever He has done or left undone is right because He did it. He is the same yesterday, today and forever. The hills are the armies of the Living God Almighty are still more than those who are in array against us. His grace is sufficient and may my spiritual vision see the power and glory of our God who is present always working all things for our good. Open my eyes and the eyes of all your children Lord, please.
Amen, Lord please help us.
 

Serving Zion

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if everything the Lord had done was written in books there would not be enough room for them all
The Greek seems to say much more than we are seeing in the English. Notice that he is talking about a possibility of writing about the things that Jesus did. That is to speak in a future tense. He is saying that if all the things that Jesus did were to be written down, then (by his estimation, "I suppose") the world would not house them. That expression "to make room for" is also a future tense expression. The word itself "chóreó" is a verb that translates to say "(lit: I make room, hence) (a) I have room for, receive, contain, (b) I make room for by departing, go, make progress, turn myself."

So the real thrust of what St. John is saying, is that the kosmos (the world) would not make a place for the works of Jesus to be written. In saying this, I don't imagine he was thinking the earth was so small that the books would not literally fit on it's surface, but he is describing the persecutive nature of the kosmos, which he also said "we are of God and the whole world lies in the power of the wicked one". He's clearly emphasising how much of a treasure it is that we have the records of Jesus that we do, and speaking in the language of mystery (that the rulers of the age did not know), he is describing how incredibly strong that grip is, that the very spirit that crucified Jesus in the first place would also seek to exterminate other records of His account.

For example, we should simply ask why he decided to not write just one more chapter after the 21 that he did write, especially seeing he wrote 1 John 3:17 and he claimed to know so much about the things Jesus did. I don't imagine he would have thought that it would have taken up all the space in the world to do so.
 

for_his_glory

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that the very spirit that crucified Jesus in the first place would also seek to exterminate other records of His account.
There was no spirit that crucified Christ as He has always been God's plan of salvation before the foundation of the world. Jesus laid down His own life here on earth that we can now have eternal life with Him in the New Jerusalem, 1 Peter 1:13-21.

John 21:25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.

The full context of vs. 25 starts at vs. 15-25 as Jesus was speaking to Peter about feeding His lambs after He ascended up to heaven. Everything Jesus did and spoke of during that last time He would be with His disciples would be to much to even try and write in any books. These are the things that John wrote as he testified of Christ in his days.
 

for_his_glory

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When you speak that way it puts you in opposition to what Jesus says (eg John 8:37,44, Matthew 27:23-25, John 8:43/1 John 4:6).
Not sure how you see any of those verses as being any kind of spirit that crucified Christ, but that of those Jesus is addressing as they being men believed not that Christ was the Messiah sent to them.

BTW, 1 John 4:1-6 is about two spirits that teach us as one is error and the other truth as we learn to Spiritually discern what others are teaching us.
 

Serving Zion

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Not sure how you see any of those verses as being any kind of spirit that crucified Christ, but that of those Jesus is addressing as they being men believed not that Christ was the Messiah sent to them.
Can you elaborate the difference you see? This is how I see it: there is the spirit of truth and the spirit of error. Jesus testified before Pontius Pilate "those who are of the truth hear me". Then it shows that the ones who crucified Him were of a spirit that did not recognise the truth of His testimonies.

In 1 Corinthians 2:7-12, St. Paul says that we speak God's wisdom in a mystery for this reason - that only we who are of the spirit of God can know the things of the spirit of God (which you have also said). He goes on then to say that we have received the spirit of God rather than the spirit of the world, and that none of the rulers of this age had known the secrets of the wisdom of God, otherwise they would not have crucified Him.

There, St. Paul is saying that he understands the ones who crucified Jesus as being of the spirit of the world rather than the spirit of God.

.. what I really hope you are not about to say is that it was the spirit of God who was shouting "crucify Him!".
 

Shekinahglory

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Can you elaborate the difference you see? This is how I see it: there is the spirit of truth and the spirit of error. Jesus testified before Pontius Pilate "those who are of the truth hear me". Then it shows that the ones who crucified Him were of a spirit that did not recognise the truth of His testimonies.

In 1 Corinthians 2:7-12, St. Paul says that we speak God's wisdom in a mystery for this reason - that only we who are of the spirit of God can know the things of the spirit of God (which you have also said). He goes on then to say that we have received the spirit of God rather than the spirit of the world, and that none of the rulers of this age had known the secrets of the wisdom of God, otherwise they would not have crucified Him.

There, St. Paul is saying that he understands the ones who crucified Jesus as being of the spirit of the world rather than the spirit of God.

.. what I really hope you are not about to say is that it was the spirit of God who was shouting "crucify Him!".
Hi, it was the same spirit revealed in the Garden and those taking part from the first time He was opposed until today and for the future it is the Seed of Satan. The High Priests that year, temple guards who arrested Him, Pilate and Herod just a few who make up that seed. There is a Body of Christ and a body of anti-christ. One is the Good Shepherd and the other The Evil Shepherd. One of the best ways to see this is to look at our world.

the Bible Belt has some of the highest percentage of online and other forms of porn. Yet they are seen as more righteous than those who live in cities. Cities are seen as more sinful than rural America. The real difference is how densely city dwellers are packed. sin is like a yeast added to the lump to pump up the bread. When men leave in less dense areas the yeast is not spread to the degree compressed groups of men living together in close proximity to each other.
 

Serving Zion

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Hi, it was the same spirit revealed in the Garden and those taking part from the first time He was opposed until today and for the future it is the Seed of Satan. The High Priests that year, temple guards who arrested Him, Pilate and Herod just a few who make up that seed. There is a Body of Christ and a body of anti-christ. One is the Good Shepherd and the other The Evil Shepherd. One of the best ways to see this is to look at our world.

the Bible Belt has some of the highest percentage of online and other forms of porn. Yet they are seen as more righteous than those who live in cities. Cities are seen as more sinful than rural America. The real difference is how densely city dwellers are packed. sin is like a yeast added to the lump to pump up the bread. When men leave in less dense areas the yeast is not spread to the degree compressed groups of men living together in close proximity to each other.
I almost didn't see your username and I was about to ask why the sudden change lol! .. so, I still wait to resolve the matter.

What you have said here about density is interesting. I have noticed something like the pattern you mentioned, but I have been travelling a different part of the world, and I have found that cities aren't necessarily more sinful than provinces. I would say it's as Jesus said about the lawlessness increasing, and as you have said that the environment of dense sin is more degrading than the environment of more nature, because it tends to rub off and shape us.

Some cities have quite good culture because the people have honour and intrinsically they care about others, while other cities are full of cruel people because the character of love is so foreign to them and sin is the normal way. The same can be said with equal fairness of small towns.
 

Shekinahglory

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Serving Zion, when we consider that cities and all the worlds system grew out of Cain’s act of rebellion. Told to be a pilgrim and alien which would have made him be a shepherd and have the offering acceptable to the Lord, the Lamb, Cain settled into the world. He did not build a house he built a city, expecting lots of company. Then he set up developing through his sons all the things fallen man needs to overcome a fallen and cursed world. You can follow the developments of this city and her advances in evil and continued rebellion against the Lord. We have reached a point where unbelievers do not understand the evil this world grew out of and Christians have forgotten or never knew what this world is. We have become a generation seeking to change the world as the world does things. Lot is a picture of Christians who have become part of the world. Sodom and Gomorrah is the same city, spiritually speaking as what Cain built. We begin to understand why they are described as various wicked beasts all in various degrees of wickedness. Instead of remaining a pilgrim and alien like Abraham. Look at the difference just in the spiritual commune between Lot and the angels and Abraham with the Lord and angels. Abraham fellowship, service and worship. Lot the world continually forcing itself in disrupting any chance for a positive spiritual time. Lot, is yanked out, the rapture, as if it is the only way for removing believers who become worldly. Lot was disturbed by Sodom’s wickedness and at first moved near the city, then into the city and finally moved into the government seeking to change men but not their hearts letting legislation seek to force men into the Good News. All the while the yeast is spreading. We have already entered the time when men are calling good, evil, and evil good. Imho
 

Serving Zion

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Serving Zion, when we consider that cities and all the worlds system grew out of Cain’s act of rebellion. Told to be a pilgrim and alien which would have made him be a shepherd and have the offering acceptable to the Lord, the Lamb, Cain settled into the world. He did not build a house he built a city, expecting lots of company. Then he set up developing through his sons all the things fallen man needs to overcome a fallen and cursed world. You can follow the developments of this city and her advances in evil and continued rebellion against the Lord. We have reached a point where unbelievers do not understand the evil this world grew out of and Christians have forgotten or never knew what this world is. We have become a generation seeking to change the world as the world does things. Lot is a picture of Christians who have become part of the world. Sodom and Gomorrah is the same city, spiritually speaking as what Cain built. We begin to understand why they are described as various wicked beasts all in various degrees of wickedness. Instead of remaining a pilgrim and alien like Abraham. Look at the difference just in the spiritual commune between Lot and the angels and Abraham with the Lord and angels. Abraham fellowship, service and worship. Lot the world continually forcing itself in disrupting any chance for a positive spiritual time. Lot, is yanked out, the rapture, as if it is the only way for removing believers who become worldly. Lot was disturbed by Sodom’s wickedness and at first moved near the city, then into the city and finally moved into the government seeking to change men but not their hearts letting legislation seek to force men into the Good News. All the while the yeast is spreading. We have already entered the time when men are calling good, evil, and evil good. Imho
You are sharing a lot of facts that aren't in the bible. Where did you get that extra information? Also, the calling of evil good and good evil has been in the world since Eve believed that her eyes would be opened and she would be as God. It is simply the perverse nature of sin that twists everything to gratify one's self and "truth" becomes an inconvenient word that they would rather not know.
 

Shekinahglory

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Some from commentaries other from common sense. See what system the sons made it’s a easy enough to that the entertainment had its start. Then the other two sons begin commercial ventures one raising food and the other the metal products needed to overcome the world cursed by God.

if your theory of good evil and evil good I am afraid would make Scripture telling us these things were end times signs if they were not going to be out of the ordinary. I have lived almost 67 years and I have never seen the truth twisted as it is in these days. But it is subjective if it is just ordinary or not.
 
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Serving Zion

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Some from commentaries other from common sense. See what system the sons made it’s a easy enough to that the entertainment had its start. Then the other two sons begin commercial ventures one raising food and the other the metal products needed to overcome the world cursed by God.
That's interesting. Where did you get the idea that God was pleased because Abel offered a lamb?
 

Serving Zion

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if your theory of good evil and evil good I am afraid would make Scripture telling us these things were end times signs if they were not going to be out of the ordinary.
If you have more in mind than Isaiah 5:20, I'd like to see it. I can only see Isaiah 5 describing the way things are (as an everlasting pattern in the present age).
I have lived almost 67 years and I have never seen the truth twisted as it is in these days. But it is subjective if it is just ordinary or not.
Yes, that is ok to say, but it doesn't mean to say that never before has truth not been twisted as it is today. You might look to examples within the history of the church - did they do what Jesus would do?

But of course it was localised in those days. With global communications, it isn't as though the spirit in one part of the world has no effect on another, for "who may go up on the mountain of Adonai? .. who may stand in His holy place?"
 

Shekinahglory

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That's interesting. Where did you get the idea that God was pleased because Abel offered a lamb?
…3So in the course of time, Cain brought some of the fruit of the soil as an offering to the LORD, 4while Abel brought the best portions of the firstborn of his flock. And the LORD looked with favor on Abel and his offering, Ge. 4

The Lamb slain from the foundation of the world begins being revealed to us from Genesis 1:1 and continues through Scripture until John proclaims Behold the Lamb of God. Here is what I understand took place in the Garden. The Lord's flock is pastured in the Garden and they fall and the promise that "dying they would die became reality. They were dead spiritually and were dying physically. If left to their own they were hopeless and helpless and the Good Shepherd comes looking for His lost sheep. Calling them His sheep hear His voice and respond. When they respond the offering for them is made and the Guilty are covered by the shed blood of The Innocent in their place. Adam and Eve had just been given the acceptable Offering. The learned it was to be offered in the fulness of time. They knew where it was to be offered on the eastside of Eden where what will be identified as the Ark of the Covenant with Mercy Seat and the angels that sat atop that piece of furniture. There must have been offerings every year in the fulness of time. They had been instructed what was to be offered, when it was to be offered and where it was to be offered and I believe it was at the same place as Abraham offering Issac. The same time and the same offering, the same place and I believe Adam and Eve went through the Telling year after year until Cain and Abel were old enough to make their own offering. Cain had been instructed just as Abel had hearing the story of God's way for Man to be saved, accepted, by God. I believe this was in seed form what eventually would be known as Passover.
 

for_his_glory

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This is how I see it: there is the spirit of truth and the spirit of error. Jesus testified before Pontius Pilate "those who are of the truth hear me". Then it shows that the ones who crucified Him were of a spirit that did not recognise the truth of His testimonies.
Now I can agree with you after explaining it this way instead of just saying the spirit crucified Christ. I was a bit confused by your statement. We're good.
 

Serving Zion

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This could turn into quite a big argument, and it's not a thing I want to do in this thread. Frankly I hate the sight of blood. It's not a beautiful thing to do, to splash blood around and hang pictures on the wall as some people do.

When they respond the offering for them is made and the Guilty are covered by the shed blood of The Innocent in their place. Adam and Eve had just been given the acceptable Offering.
You have added more than what is written in the Hebrew of Genesis 3:21, and ironically because you haven't gained all the meaning that is in the Hebrew (which is impossible to do through English).

As with the fruit of the tree of life, where people think it is simply telling us that Adam and Eve destroyed paradise by having a snack, so they draw pictures of Adam and Eve eating an apple. Now you are drawing a picture of God tearing the skin from an innocent animal to save the life of someone who is guilty.. but the Hebrew says none of that: The Lord God made for the man and the woman garments of skin, and clothed them.

Whenever I read the Hebrew language, I read into the pictograph expression behind the words, because the language is very ancient and the words are very deliberately spelled with pictures so as to convey an important meaning in context of the word. It is a very potent language because each word is like a sentence.

It seems like the perfect idea for my first blog entry actually, because a lot more can be said about this in a general way that will be more generally valuable that way and it will provide the right environment to dig into the depths of the issue while guarding the integrity of this thread :)
 

Shekinahglory

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I look forward to hearing your thoughts. As far as the portion quoted the assumption in my opinion on at leastt these two reasons for the understanding I come to on the quoted portion. Where did the skin come from? would not an animal need to be slain? there is no remission of sin without shed blood. The animal was from the flock that Abel brought was it just luck on his part and Cain being unlucky? There is a difference in my opinion of supplying what is not there and drawing a conclusion from what we are being taught if it aligns with Scrpture. What has my conclusions altered in the message of Scripture. If this were the way we were meant to study Scripture we would be in the year 2019 with nothing but verbatim teaching right out of the Book. I don’t think gave the sons in the genealogy in Genesis names with meanings that form a sentence of the Redeemer coming down to save frail man for us not to dig that out and draw the conclusion that He placed it there for our understanding. Please let me know what your feeling.
Thanks
 

Serving Zion

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The learned it was to be offered in the fulness of time. They knew where it was to be offered on the eastside of Eden where what will be identified as the Ark of the Covenant with Mercy Seat and the angels that sat atop that piece of furniture. There must have been offerings every year in the fulness of time. They had been instructed what was to be offered, when it was to be offered and where it was to be offered and I believe it was at the same place as Abraham offering Issac.
Could you show the scripture that supports your ideas that Adam and Eve had received instructions about making offerings? (basically, all of this quoted piece appears to be unsupported - only according to what I remember of scripture, and that's why I am asking first).

Where did the skin come from? would not an animal need to be slain?
That's the natural question if you are only reading the English translation, because the English lacks the breadth of meaning that is seen in the Hebrew. Just as Jesus was not saying in John 15:1 that He is a plant. We need to remember that 1 Corinthians 2:14 forces us to read the scriptures with a desire for meat rather than milk, and then to speak in the same way so as to share the word in the flesh: living to living, spirit to spirit, brain to brain. For a concept to move from one brain to another requires precise operation of spirit and word in unison. That is why we can work with no end to try and explain things to a person whose spirit is not cooperating - whereas when a person is truly ready to receive, then even one Word is enough to convert them (Proverbs 25:11). So for that reason, I just want to ask for your patience and let me prepare a proper article that sets the scene and explains what I am reading in the text, because I think that is what it will take. If we were chatting by live video link, I'd have a go at saying it right now, if I could look you in the eye as I speak.
 

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