What does it mean to be born again?

[FreeGrace]

The Bible not mentioning water baptism doesn't necessarily mean they weren't. We are just not told one way or the other. It seems all we can do is speculate.

My response to the other poster was for that reason. The comment was that all occurrences of people coming to faith were baptized.

One question comes to my mind. Can one become a disciple of Jesus without baptism? He did say, "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit." Matthew 28:19 NKJV Does this imply baptism is required for discipleship?

I believe so.

 

[Jim Parker]

Not true.

There are more statements about people getting saved that don't mention water baptism than do.

For example, Acts 2:47 - praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord was adding to their number day by day those who were being saved.

And how were they added?
What did Peter tell them they must do?
Acts 2:37-38 Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Brethren, what shall we do?"
And Peter said to them, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Jim Parker]

The quote feature wouldn't function properly.
Please click to expand. My reply is in blue.

It seems to me that Jesus introduces this concept in John 3:3

http://biblia.com/bible/kjv1900/John 3.3
The Greek says you are right.

Now who do you imagine might possibly want a Christian to think that baptism is not necessary?


I don't know Parker. I think it's necessary. I don't know any church who thinks it's not necessary.
Are you speaking of the prince of the air, maybe??

That would be my assessment.

jim

 

[Jim Parker]

Since there is a baptism of repentance, should we not be looking into the broad and narrow of all baptisms?

We should be looking at the definitive statement of Paul. Romans 6:3ff.

 

[JohnDB]

Shutting down while I drive through this.View attachment 9312

 

[JohnDB]

Gonna let this thread cool down for a few days till people can get their emotions and thoughts together.

 

[JohnDB]

OK...
Back to the regular discussion.

 

[eddif]

Acts 2:38 KJV
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Matthew 3:11 KJV
I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

At our natural birth we have a body that begins to breathe and function on many levels. Kidneys filter waste products; immune system - search destroy (not lupus); lungs; gather oxygen; (etc.).

The new birth should have all it's aspects at work also. Romans 6:3
Is a part of the new birth. Are there other areas?

eddif

 

[jocor]

You are all dealing with what I call being "spiritually" born again. What Yeshua was talking about in John 3, however, is being "literally" born again. Here is my take on that.

"Jesus (Yeshua) answered and said unto him, 'Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of Elohim."

Yeshua spoke these words to Nicodemus, a Pharisee and ruler of the Jews. By Nicodemus' reply it is obvious that he misunderstood Yeshua in that he was thinking an adult could somehow enter his mother's womb a second time and be born a second time.

Yeshua then clarifies further in verse 5;

"Jesus (Yeshua) answered, 'Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."

Yeshua is explaining only one aspect of being born again, the literal meaning. There is a second aspect, the spiritual meaning, which will be dealt with in another post if you would like my take on that as well. To be "born of water" refers to one's physical birth. The unborn child is encased in "water" for the majority of his life in the womb. Once that encasement breaks and the "water" is released the birth begins. Yeshua was responding to Nicodemus' question about entering his mother's womb a second time. So, in essence, Yeshua was saying, "Except a man be born of the womb and of the Spirit . . ."

Many have concluded that Yeshua was referring to baptism in water and the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Based on the context that follows, that is not true. Verse 6 reads,

"That which is born of flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit."

Yeshua is drawing a parallel to what he just said in verse 5. To be "born of the flesh" equals to be "born of water." When a person is born of water he is born a flesh and blood being. However, when a person is born of the Spirit he is spirit. He becomes a spirit being. This can only happen to a person upon his resurrection from the dead. That is what happened to our Savior Yeshua upon his resurrection from the dead. Psalm 2:7 reads,

"I will declare the decree: The LORD (Yahweh) hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee."

Its fulfillment is found is found in Acts 13:33;

"God has fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he has raised up Jesus (Yeshua) again; as it is also written in the second Psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee."

Yeshua's resurrection from the dead was the point in time that he was "begotten" or "born again." He was "born of the flesh" or "born of water" when his mother Mary gave birth to him. "And the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us. . ." (John 1:14)

Yeshua is said to be the "firstborn from the dead" (Col 1:18). He was the first person to be resurrected unto eternal life or the first to be "born" via resurrection. Romans 8:29 says,

"For whom He did foreknow, He also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of His Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren."

Therefore, all those that believe in the Son (his brethren) will also be resurrected or literally born again as he was.

The Apostle Paul wrote,

"It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body and there is a spiritual body" (1 Corinthians 15:44).

The "natural body" means our flesh and blood body that was born of water or of the flesh. The "spiritual body" means the new body that is reserved in heaven for each saint that will be resurrected. In 2 Corinthians 5:1-4, Paul speaks of this spiritual body as our future "house."

"For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven."

Notice, also, in 1 Corinthians 15:44, that Paul says the natural body is "sown." Just as a seed is sown in the ground and gives birth to a new plant, so must we be sown in death before we are literally born again at our resurrection as spirit beings. We will literally experience a new birth into a different kind of being, one that is not subject to sickness or death or hindered by the physical barriers of life in the flesh such as walls. This latter ability of a spirit being is very important in understanding what Yeshua meant in John 3:8.

"The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit."

Yeshua is saying, if you are a person who is born of the Spirit, you will be able to come and go without detection because spirit beings are invisible. We all know that angels, who are spirit beings, are invisible until made manifest to human eyes for some reason as was the case with Elisha and his servant in 2 Kings 6:17. The same is true of Yeshua now that he has been resurrected or born again, born of the Spirit. In Luke 24:31, Yeshua vanished out of the sight of Cleopas and his traveling companion. Later, in Luke 24:36, Yeshua suddenly appeared in the midst of his disciples as they spoke to one another. His appearance was so sudden and unexpected that they thought they were seeing a spirit. John 20:19 tells on that occasion the disciples were hiding in a room in fear with the door shut. It is not too great an assumption to believe the door was locked as well, yet Yeshua, as a spirit being, was not hindered by the physical world. He passed through the door or wall, undetected as the wind, to speak to his disciples.

All this simply confirms what Paul said in 1 Corinthians 15:50;

"Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption."

This is another way of saying, " Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God" and "Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God." The literal kingdom of Yahweh is closed to all that are flesh and blood. Its doors will open when the flesh is made spirit at a person's resurrection. When the earth gives birth to a dead saint their entrance into the kingdom is permitted.

What about this concept of the earth giving birth? Is it Scriptural? Most certainly. Consider Isaiah 26:19;

"Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in the dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead."

It is the earth that is going to "cast out" the dead via resurrection when dead bodies shall arise. "Cast out" is #5307 in Strong's Concordance. A root of it is #5309 which means an "untimely birth." Consider, also, Isaiah 66:8;

"Who hath heard such a thing? Who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed she brought forth her children."

Zion will give birth to her "children," but it is the earth that is actually made to "bring forth" or give birth to these children. This refers to the resurrection of believers. The resurrection of Yeshua is referred to in verse 7.

In John 3:9, Nicodemus says, "How can these things be?" Yeshua replies, "Art thou a master [teacher] of Israel and knowest not these things?" In other words, Nicodemus should have known from the Old Testament what Yeshua was talking about. Nowhere in the Old Testament, that I am aware of, is the concept of being born again while in the flesh taught. However, the resurrection of the dead is taught and that is what Yeshua was referring to by being "born again" and "born of the Spirit."

What Yeshua taught in John 3:3-12 is the literal act of being born again. There is also a spiritual aspect of being born again which is far more important. Without being born again spiritually we cannot expect to be born again literally at our resurrection.

 

[GodsGrace]

You are all dealing with what I call being "spiritually" born again. What Yeshua was talking about in John 3, however, is being "literally" born again. Here is my take on that.

"Jesus (Yeshua) answered and said unto him, 'Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of Elohim."

Yeshua spoke these words to Nicodemus, a Pharisee and ruler of the Jews. By Nicodemus' reply it is obvious that he misunderstood Yeshua in that he was thinking an adult could somehow enter his mother's womb a second time and be born a second time.

Yeshua then clarifies further in verse 5;

"Jesus (Yeshua) answered, 'Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."

Yeshua is explaining only one aspect of being born again, the literal meaning. There is a second aspect, the spiritual meaning, which will be dealt with in another post if you would like my take on that as well. To be "born of water" refers to one's physical birth. The unborn child is encased in "water" for the majority of his life in the womb. Once that encasement breaks and the "water" is released the birth begins. Yeshua was responding to Nicodemus' question about entering his mother's womb a second time. So, in essence, Yeshua was saying, "Except a man be born of the womb and of the Spirit . . ."

Many have concluded that Yeshua was referring to baptism in water and the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Based on the context that follows, that is not true. Verse 6 reads,

"That which is born of flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit."

Yeshua is drawing a parallel to what he just said in verse 5. To be "born of the flesh" equals to be "born of water." When a person is born of water he is born a flesh and blood being. However, when a person is born of the Spirit he is spirit. He becomes a spirit being. This can only happen to a person upon his resurrection from the dead. That is what happened to our Savior Yeshua upon his resurrection from the dead. Psalm 2:7 reads,

"I will declare the decree: The LORD (Yahweh) hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee."

Its fulfillment is found is found in Acts 13:33;

"God has fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he has raised up Jesus (Yeshua) again; as it is also written in the second Psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee."

Yeshua's resurrection from the dead was the point in time that he was "begotten" or "born again." He was "born of the flesh" or "born of water" when his mother Mary gave birth to him. "And the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us. . ." (John 1:14)

Yeshua is said to be the "firstborn from the dead" (Col 1:18). He was the first person to be resurrected unto eternal life or the first to be "born" via resurrection. Romans 8:29 says,

"For whom He did foreknow, He also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of His Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren."

Therefore, all those that believe in the Son (his brethren) will also be resurrected or literally born again as he was.

The Apostle Paul wrote,

"It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body and there is a spiritual body" (1 Corinthians 15:44).

The "natural body" means our flesh and blood body that was born of water or of the flesh. The "spiritual body" means the new body that is reserved in heaven for each saint that will be resurrected. In 2 Corinthians 5:1-4, Paul speaks of this spiritual body as our future "house."

"For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven."

Notice, also, in 1 Corinthians 15:44, that Paul says the natural body is "sown." Just as a seed is sown in the ground and gives birth to a new plant, so must we be sown in death before we are literally born again at our resurrection as spirit beings. We will literally experience a new birth into a different kind of being, one that is not subject to sickness or death or hindered by the physical barriers of life in the flesh such as walls. This latter ability of a spirit being is very important in understanding what Yeshua meant in John 3:8.

"The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit."

Yeshua is saying, if you are a person who is born of the Spirit, you will be able to come and go without detection because spirit beings are invisible. We all know that angels, who are spirit beings, are invisible until made manifest to human eyes for some reason as was the case with Elisha and his servant in 2 Kings 6:17. The same is true of Yeshua now that he has been resurrected or born again, born of the Spirit. In Luke 24:31, Yeshua vanished out of the sight of Cleopas and his traveling companion. Later, in Luke 24:36, Yeshua suddenly appeared in the midst of his disciples as they spoke to one another. His appearance was so sudden and unexpected that they thought they were seeing a spirit. John 20:19 tells on that occasion the disciples were hiding in a room in fear with the door shut. It is not too great an assumption to believe the door was locked as well, yet Yeshua, as a spirit being, was not hindered by the physical world. He passed through the door or wall, undetected as the wind, to speak to his disciples.

All this simply confirms what Paul said in 1 Corinthians 15:50;

"Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption."

This is another way of saying, " Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God" and "Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God." The literal kingdom of Yahweh is closed to all that are flesh and blood. Its doors will open when the flesh is made spirit at a person's resurrection. When the earth gives birth to a dead saint their entrance into the kingdom is permitted.

What about this concept of the earth giving birth? Is it Scriptural? Most certainly. Consider Isaiah 26:19;

"Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in the dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead."

It is the earth that is going to "cast out" the dead via resurrection when dead bodies shall arise. "Cast out" is #5307 in Strong's Concordance. A root of it is #5309 which means an "untimely birth." Consider, also, Isaiah 66:8;

"Who hath heard such a thing? Who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed she brought forth her children."

Zion will give birth to her "children," but it is the earth that is actually made to "bring forth" or give birth to these children. This refers to the resurrection of believers. The resurrection of Yeshua is referred to in verse 7.

In John 3:9, Nicodemus says, "How can these things be?" Yeshua replies, "Art thou a master [teacher] of Israel and knowest not these things?" In other words, Nicodemus should have known from the Old Testament what Yeshua was talking about. Nowhere in the Old Testament, that I am aware of, is the concept of being born again while in the flesh taught. However, the resurrection of the dead is taught and that is what Yeshua was referring to by being "born again" and "born of the Spirit."

What Yeshua taught in John 3:3-12 is the literal act of being born again. There is also a spiritual aspect of being born again which is far more important. Without being born again spiritually we cannot expect to be born again literally at our resurrection.

Jocor,
I couldn't agree more. I had been taught that the water meant baptism but in reading this on my own, it made no sense at all.

We use the term Born Again. In John 3, Jesus uses the term Born of Above.
Do you understand there to be a difference in these two terms?
I like verse 5: Jesus uses the term: Born of the Spirit.

It makes it clear that we are dead in our spirit UNTIL we come to understand about the kingdom of God and being spiritually alive. We are Born of Above. Not only of this earth, which corresponds to the first birth of water as you explained, but the birth of heaven, of above, of God. Our consciousness of God, our spirit being made alive to be in union with God's spirit. Accepting that we are a part of the Kingdom and actually becoming a part of it. To further it, to strengthen it. We must not only BE children, we must ACT like children of the creator.

Wondering

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Nicodemus should have known from the Old Testament what Yeshua was talking about. Nowhere in the Old Testament, that I am aware of, is the concept of being born again while in the flesh taught.

I think this is what Jesus had in mind that Nicodemus did not understand, but should have:

6“Then the Spirit of the LORD will come upon you mightily, and you shall prophesy with them and be changed into another man." (1 Samuel 10:6 NASB)

This is the new birth by the Spirit of the Lord while still in the body of flesh.

Many have concluded that Yeshua was referring to baptism in water and the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Based on the context that follows, that is not true. Verse 6 reads,

"That which is born of flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit."

'Water' does refer to water baptism, but only in regard to cleansing outward uncleanness and it producing a natural man of outward righteousness only:

"...the water of cleansing; it is for purification from sin. [...] For the unclean person, put some ashes from the burned purification offering into a jar and pour fresh water over them." (Numbers 19:9,17 NIV)

"the gifts and sacrifices being offered were not able to clear the conscience of the worshiper. 10They are only a matter of food and drink and various ceremonial washings—external regulations applying until the time of the new order." (Hebrews 9:9-10 NASB)

Jesus, also, is saying that the external ceremonial washing through water for repentance (which the Jews take great confidence in) is not enough to enter into the kingdom. It's only a preparation for receiving the "washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit" (Titus 3:5 NIV) of which John's baptism is only a precursor. Repentance in water baptism and the 'birth' of the repentant natural man is only an outer cleansing. Jesus is saying you must also be born anew by the Spirit in an inward cleansing and renewal. It is only those who have the inner cleansing and rebirth that will see the kingdom of heaven.

 

[jocor]

We use the term Born Again. In John 3, Jesus uses the term Born of Above.
Do you understand there to be a difference in these two terms?

Yes. I believe "above" to be correct. Yeshua is contrasting the literal birth from above at our resurrection with the earthly birth below from the womb.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

'Water' is being used as a metonymy for 'repentance'.

Outward change through the waters of repentance (baptism) produces a natural man. It is 'flesh giving birth to flesh'.
But inward change through the Spirit produces a spiritual man. It is 'spirit giving birth to spirit'.

 

[jocor]

Jesus is saying you must also be born anew by the Spirit in an inward cleansing and renewal. It is only those who have the inner cleansing and rebirth that will see the kingdom of heaven.

I'm pretty sure you would agree that someone with the inner cleansing can still fail to enter the literal kingdom if they don't continue abiding in Yeshua. However, the one with the inner cleansing who continues abiding in Yeshua will be resurrected (born from above) unto eternal life. That birth cannot be thwarted because once it takes place, it is unto eternal life.

 

[jocor]

'Water' is being used as a metonymy for 'repentance'.

Outward change through the waters of repentance (baptism) produces a natural man. It is 'flesh giving birth to flesh'.
But inward change through the Spirit produces a spiritual man. It is 'spirit giving birth to spirit'.

I do not deny the spiritual birth of a natural man to a spiritual man (a spiritually minded man - Romans 8:6), but that is different from a natural man becoming a spirit man as Yeshua became after his resurrection.

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes. I believe "above" to be correct. Yeshua is contrasting the literal birth from above at our resurrection with the earthly birth below from the womb.

What do you mean at our resurrection?
John 3 is speaking about NOW. Being born of above, or born again now. Seeing the Kingdom of God (or of heaven, same thing) now.

Do you not agree with this?

 

[GodsGrace]

'Water' is being used as a metonymy for 'repentance'.

Outward change through the waters of repentance (baptism) produces a natural man. It is 'flesh giving birth to flesh'.
But inward change through the Spirit produces a spiritual man. It is 'spirit giving birth to spirit'.

Jethro,
I haven't followed along well.
Do YOU also believe the water in John 3 is referring to baptismal water?

Wondering

 

[reba]

Born again :
Eph 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

He is the living water of the new birth
Joh 4:13 Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again:
Joh 4:14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

 

[jocor]

What do you mean at our resurrection?
John 3 is speaking about NOW. Being born of above, or born again now. Seeing the Kingdom of God (or of heaven, same thing) now.

Do you not agree with this?

I thought you said you "couldn't agree more" with my post #89? John 3 is NOT talking about our spiritual birth, but our literal birth at the resurrection.

 

[dianegcook]

There are many many different views on this. This has bothered me in the past and is seriously a heaven and hell issue. I am sure everyone would want to know the truth about what it means to be born again. I don't know about this present evil world but I do NOT want to go to hell. I want the truth. I don't care about my own feelings or opinion. I want to know if I am in error and am headed to hell or not. My sister once said. "Well on judgement day, we will know the truth then." Well I hate to say this but on the day of judgement, It's toooooo late then. It is alllll over. Who in their right mind would want to wait until then to see if such and such doctrine is correct or not? Why not now??? Why can't we seek for the truth now and avoid hell?

If you believe that Jesus came in the flesh, and became our sacrifice, for remission of sins, and let the Spirit of God live within you, you have nothing to worry about.
We all have differ opinions as you can see.
Let the Holy Spirit guide you and become a new creature.

Sorry to everyone, that I didn't post scriptures, just trying to consult someone that seems confused.

I think one should be baptized, but look at the person that was crucified with Christ, my belief was that he wasn't.

Just love God with all your heart, soul and mind, and your neighbors as yourself.
The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, long suffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness and temperance.
If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
Gal.5:22-25

Good day