I've addressed this parable at length in the threadin luke 16
23And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
your mind is made up. if i was to post any more would get very point blank . scripture speaks for it self .if you disagree then so be it. a young man who i have knownmostall his life tried to tell me there was no God.i finally told him one of the 2 of us will find out if i am right...your free to believe how you wantYou quoted my post but your point wasn't to me?
It's not a matter of my mind being made up. It's what the evidence showsyour mind is made up. if i was to post any more would get very point blank . scripture speaks for it self .if you disagree then so be it. a young man who i have knownmostall his life tried to tell me there was no God.i finally told him one of the 2 of us will find out if i am right...your free to believe how you want
Well what about Enoch then? Is he dead? It's appointed that man will die once...and another scripture says...Enoch was and then was not because God took him. So there's a dead body in heaven now? I think not.No, I don't think it was an actual event. I've shown how it couldn't be. Jesus said it was a vision and Peter indicates that it was the second coming. The second coming hasn't occured yet. Plus if it was an actual event it means that Moses and Elijah were resrrected before Jesus. However, Paul tells us that Jesus is the first born from the deas
I'm not the one making it complicated. Saying dead people are alive makes it complicated and confusing. The Bible tells us that people died, but then people are claiming that they're not dead. Who should I believe, the Bible or someone's opinion.
No, Enoch isn't in heaven, no one is. Enoch died, Paul said so.Well what about Enoch then? Is he dead? It's appointed that man will die once...and another scripture says...Enoch was and then was not because God took him. So there's a dead body in heaven now? I think not.
No, Enoch isn't in heaven, no one is. Enoch died, Paul said so.
He never said that?Well you misunderstood Paul then because he never said that. That's probably why you didn't post the scripture where you think he did.
He never said that?
5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.1
8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:
10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.
11 Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised.
12 Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable.
13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.1
(Heb. 11:5-13 KJV)
Enoch was translated. It means he was put somewhere else. It seems God saved him from some life threatening event. However, he did die later as Paul notes.
You just keep jumping from passage to passage without ever addressing the problems with what you claim. You've yet to address that your interpretation, especially of 2 Cor. 5 runs counter to what Paul said. He said of Christians who had died in Christ, if there is no resurrection they had perished. This is the exact opposite of what you claim.Who are these?
After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands, and crying out with a loud voice, saying, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!” All the angels stood around the throne and the elders and the four living creatures, and fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, saying:
“Amen! Blessing and glory and wisdom,
Thanksgiving and honor and power and might,
Be to our God forever and ever.
Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, “Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?”
And I said to him, “Sir, you know.”
So he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Therefore they are before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple. And He who sits on the throne will dwell among them. They shall neither hunger anymore nor thirst anymore; the sun shall not strike them, nor any heat; for the Lamb who is in the midst of the throne will shepherd them and lead them to living fountains of waters. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.”
So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord. For we walk by faith, not by sight. We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.
2 Corinthians 5:6-8
- We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.
Where is the Lord we are present with when we are absent from our body when we die?
I did explain it. Firstly your claim that Enoch is excluded from Paul's statement is arbitrary, meaning it has no support. Paul said that Enoch was translated, literally transposed. He was placed somewhere else. The same thing happened to Phillip after he baptized the Eunuch. The same thing happened to Elijah when he was taken up in a chariot. Both of them were placed somewhere else. Paul says he was translated that he should not see death. Apparently his life was in danger and God put him somewhere else so that he wouldn't be killed. That doesn't mean he didn't die later like Phillip and Elijah did. Paul later says 'these all died'. So, after saying that Enoch was translated so that he wouldn't see death, he goes on to say that Enoch died.I figured that you was thinking of this passage.
Ok, question. Can you not comprehend that in verse 5 that Enoch was specifically excluded from the following statements because God took him?
Paul clearly stated that Enoch did not see death, then that excludes Enoch from the statement, "These all died,"
5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God. ../
It does not really say that Enoch was taken to heaven, but God translated him somewhere. That's for sure.
If you come back with a brushoff of some inane rejection of this then kindly explain...if Enoch died, then what is meant by "he should not see death" and what that really means and why it is in there. ;)
See? Here you go again. You do not want to address what I have asked you. I don't address what you say is a problem with my view simply because therte isn't a problem with it and you wont even consider or reasonably respond to what anyone says to you. Rather you ignore a lot of things and get inane and say oh that's just your opinion...and then go on to give your opinion and lay it down like it is an established fact. That's weird brother.You just keep jumping from passage to passage without ever addressing the problems with what you claim. You've yet to address that your interpretation, especially of 2 Cor. 5 runs counter to what Paul said. He said of Christians who had died in Christ, if there is no resurrection they had perished. This is the exact opposite of what you claim.