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What is a man?

The Light

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Or in Hebrews when it speaks of us on earth being surrounded by a great congregation of saints that have died?
The witnesses were in reference to those in the "Hall of Fame of Faith" mentioned in chapter 11. Chapter 12 begins with the 11th chapter in mind and goes on to encourage the brethren to run their race and exhibit that same type of faith.
 

The Light

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All scriptures I read (or I read them that way) indicate that life is not perishable. Yes our bodies are dead but we still alive, waiting until we are reunited with our bodies.
Interesting. Would you mind sharing?
 

Avigdor

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My pleasure:
1 Samuel 2:6-8 (the song of Hannah)
Job 14:9-15 (The Patriarch's hope)
John 11:21-26 (Martha & Jesus)

Daniel 12:2 (The Prophets)
Ecclesiastes 9:5-10 (Solomon)
1Sam 2: 6-8
This is primarily praising the sovereignty of God. God does all these things. Sheol is simply a place for the dead in Israels language. It does not say exactly what that entails. and is not specifically talking about a dead body just the dead,
.
Job 14:9-15 I can see how You would interpret this as you do, taken only as the words suggest. And you may be right. I don't think so, and it isn't wishful thinking, but bottom line we can't any of us be absolutely sure. But in these words I see a man desperate and destitute, and angry, crying out to God in language that is speaking of what death means to our ceasing to exist on earth. A human view point, not a God view point.

John 11
Doesn't apply to your argument as far as I can see.
Dan.12
NA It is talking about judgement day and resurrection of bodies. It says nothing about life after death.
Eccl.
The book of Ecclesiates is about life on earth, mans perspective, and though you can take the words concerning Sheol to mean what you are proposing, it also just as legitamately could just be an expression. That is why we have to compare obscure passages to ones that are clear on the same subject. And you are comparing scriptures which is awesome, but it seems more of a word search and less an afterlife search.
 

Avigdor

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Interesting. Would you mind sharing?
I will. Can you wait a bit though. I can only do this for so long before I am going crazy to get up and move and give my brain a rest! And i want to do your inquiry justice.
 

Avigdor

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The witnesses were in reference to those in the "Hall of Fame of Faith" mentioned in chapter 11. Chapter 12 begins with the 11th chapter in mind and goes on to encourage the brethren to run their race and exhibit that same type of faith.
Well yes, I know. They weren't imaginary though or an analogy, they were/are there.
 

Avigdor

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Interesting. Would you mind sharing?
There was the appearance of Samuel in the OT
Jesus said in regards to "the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob" that God is the God of the living not the of the dead.
The transfiguration in which Moses and Elijah were present.
The account of the rich man and Lazrus(sp.)
The fact that we are in Christ and seated with Him in the heavenlies.
 

wondering

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The Light

Good morning Light....
You're having a very nice conversation with Avigdor ....
I'd like to say that I agree with all that she is saying.

But we were talking about the way man is made up.
The bible speaks of our body....we all know we have a BODY.
The bible speaks of a soul.....we all know we have a SOUL.
And the bible speaks of our spirit being in tune with God's spirit....so we know we have a spirit.

How to put all that together took some going through the scriptures and coming up with that particular biblical knowledge...much as had to be done with the Trinity.

Some believe man is a dichotomy:
BODY
SOUL/SPIRIT

Some believe man is a trichotomy:
BODY
SOUL
SPIRIT

Either belief is fine because they both encompass all that we are made of,,,,three aspects.

Personally, I understand the trichotomy better and it also makes it easier to understand that not everyone that has a soul also has a spirit....they are separate.

Simply put....
BODY......is our physical self, our skin and bones, senses, etc.
SOUL......is what let's us be an individual. Even animals have a soul. It is our will, our emotions, our conscience, etc.
SPIRIT...is our connection with God. It is our "God-self", not everyone has a spirit that is in tune with God. Our spirit also AFFECTS our soul...I'll only get into this if you want to.


Here is an image:


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Butch5

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It's really simple. Moses told us how God created man.

7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.1 (Gen. 2:7 KJV)

The LORD God formed the man from that dust of the ground. Ok, so man consists of the elements of the earth. God then breathed something out of Himself and into the man, the breath of life. That breath of life combined with the man to become a living soul.

From this we conclude that a living soul consists of two elements, the breath of life, or spirit of life and the man created from the dust. This mans that man "IS" a soul.

The word soul is used two ways in Scripture. It is use concretely as a living being and it is used abstractly of life.

This all makes perfect sense until people try to impose foreign ideas onto the text. There is nowhere in Scripture that teaches that man lives apart from the body. And, there is nothing in the Scriptures that teaches that man is immortal. In fact the apostle Paul actually tells us that the Father alone is immortal.

14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen. (1 Tim. 6:14-16 KJV)
 

Edward

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From this we conclude that a living soul consists of two elements, the breath of life, or spirit of life and the man created from the dust. This mans that man "IS" a soul.
Before we are able to conclude something we must certainly ascertain that it is truth and for it to be truth it must not disagree with any scriptures whatsoever...am I right? (I am).

OK, so for the sake of discussion, let us presume that your view is correct. Oh wait here is a scripture which seems to throw enormous doubt upon your view of man. How it reads, it seems to imply that man is a tripartite being, so given that you are right...then what does this scripture mean? Riddle me this scripture, Brother...

1 Corinthians 2:11
11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.../

So how do you reconcile this scripture with your view that man is made of two parts and does not have a spirit within himself? It actually says, the spirit of man which is in him. Reading this entire chapter for context is recommended.
 

Butch5

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Before we are able to conclude something we must certainly ascertain that it is truth and for it to be truth it must not disagree with any scriptures whatsoever...am I right? (I am).

OK, so for the sake of discussion, let us presume that your view is correct. Oh wait here is a scripture which seems to throw enormous doubt upon your view of man. How it reads, it seems to imply that man is a tripartite being, so given that you are right...then what does this scripture mean? Riddle me this scripture, Brother...

1 Corinthians 2:11
11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.../

So how do you reconcile this scripture with your view that man is made of two parts and does not have a spirit within himself? It actually says, the spirit of man which is in him. Reading this entire chapter for context is recommended.
There's not issue here with what I've said. I didn't say there wasn't a spirit in man. I said that man isn't a spirit. There is a spirit or breath in man it is the breath of life. It is God's spirit or breath. It is this spirit or breath that gives the man the ability to think and reason.

Surely a spirit is in man, And the breath of the Mighty One Doth cause them to understand. (Job 32:8 YLT)

Both Greek and Hebrew words translated spirit and breath mean breath.
 

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