What is Dispensationalism or Right Division?

[AVBunyan]

What is Dispensationalism or Right Division? A biblical way to study the scriptures - II TIm. 2:15

This is an often-asked question and I will seek to give an answer without going into much detail.

God already has a plan that was settled in eternity. This plan will not change. The scriptures is that plan written down. We see from the scriptures how God revealed His great plan a bit at a time. Though God never changes how he deals with men and nations has changed as His plan was revealed.

If all you had were Genesis then you would not have all that God has revealed. You would know of Creation, the Flood, the Calling of Abraham, and how Jacob’s family ended up in Egypt but there is more. During this time God gave commands – He told Adam and Eve to put on skins and get out of the garden. He told Noah to build an ark if he wanted to survive. He told Abraham to believe some land would be his and he would be the father of a great nation. Basically God promised Abraham his descendents would have a big plot of land some day but the story doesn’t end here.

But then God gave you Exodus and more of His plan was revealed for now we see Israel made a nation and given the law. God had a plan for Israel and that was they were to be a nation of kings and priests to dispense God’s blessings to the rest of the nations in God’s eternal kingdom. Israel would be fulfilling this plan from the land God promised to Abraham back in early Genesis. From Exodus until Matthew we see Israel’s continuing failure to be what God called them to be. During this time God was giving the prophets visions regarding this future kingdom and a coming Messiah to bring in this eternal, earthly kingdom. When Israel finally went into total rebellion God turned them over to captivity and then brought them out again. Starting with Exodus 19 you are under the Jewish law.

Now, notice this whole time the church, as we know it is non-existent. God knew there was to be the church; the body of Christ but God was not ready to reveal this body yet for He was still dealing with Israel as a nation.

When Jesus shows up in Matthew he is basically there to “bring in†this kingdom that was promised by God to Israel. Jesus came to Israel to bring them together for the future kingdom. At this time the Old Testament law is still in effect though it is in our “new Testamentâ€. Jesus comes to bring in this kingdom and is rejected just like God planned it. We know now that Jesus had to die for the sins of the world but up to that time this fact was basically hidden from all. We know this plan now but back then it was hid from them.

So, Israel rejected their Messiah and lost their kingdom offer. During Acts this kingdom offer is renewed one last time – they reject it. Israel rejected God the Father in the OT, the Son in the gospels and now the Holy Ghost in the Acts period. So, is God’s plan finished? Of course not, God raises up a converted Pharisee, Saul, who becomes Paul and starts to reveal the body of Christ which God had planned from before the foundation of the world – i.e. eternity. Paul is the one God chose to bring us this new plan. His epistles tell us of this new church, which was hidden from the OT folks but now, revealed to those in that day by Paul. When God is finished building His church then this age will end with the church being pulled out and He will resume His dealings with His chosen people, Israel during the Tribulation. At the end of this Tribulation period God will make the believing remnant of Israel that he brings through this tough 7 years to be His true people by putting His law into their hearts and making them anew and then bring the nation into their land to start the kingdom He promised to Abraham and the Jews in Exodus 19. Israel will finally be the nation of kings and priests to dispense God’s blessings to the other nations in the kingdom. They will rule and reign from Jerusalem.

What about the church that left before tribulation? The church of today (the body of Christ) will still be in the heavenly places displaying the manifold wisdom of god in heaven.

Now, why all that? We have the completed plan in our hands in a King James Bible to marvel at God’s infinite wisdom and grace. What we can do is look back and see how worked out this plan starting at Genesis 1 and finishes up in Revelation 2.

Right division tells us what instructions and commands went with each age. Right division tells what people and the instructions for those people go with what age that is being written about. From Gen. 1 to Exo. 19 you are dealing with folks and God’s instructions for them. After the law is given you are dealing with Israel and the instructions God gave to them. The Gospels carries on with these instructions. In Acts you have a transitional period where God is going from Jew to the church and the instructions, which go with that period. And now Mid Acts or so until Philemon you are dealing with the church, which is Jesus’ body and the instructions for it which we get from Paul.

So, right division tells us what is for us and what is for them, which is Israel, and other folks in other times before and after our time. What you need to know is what is doctrinally for you today and what is doctrinally for the other folks in other ages.
What you do not want to do is mix all those instructions together. That is why there is so much confusion today – the applying of instructions meant for others to us today and trying to make instructions for us fit other folks in other ages.

Moses, David, the Prophets, gave us those instructions for the OT and the law. The Gospels gave us those instructions for the coming kingdom and other teachings about Jesus. Acts is a transitional book from the Jewish kingdom to the church. Paul gave us our instructions for us today mainly from Romans thru Philemon. You have Hebrews thru Revelation for those future tribulation times.

The message in the OT was:
Adam – put on some clothes and get out of the garden!
Noah – build a boat!
Abraham – believe you will father a great nation!
Israel – keep the law and sacrifice a lamb!

The message in the NT was and is:
Gospels – hey Jews, believe that Jesus is your messiah!
Church – believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved!
Tribulation - hey Jews, believe that Jesus is your messiah!
Kingdom – Hey folks your King is on the throne – keep his commandments

I trust this helps. Many will present this a different way and see things different but this is how I would introduce one to what is right division.

I’m sure I could have done a better job but there it is – I’ll proof read it later so forgive all mistakes

God bless

 

[Gideon]

I've never hear do this perspective before, at least not in this particular way, could you please answer some perhaps- impertinent questions?

1. Why DO people think the King James is the most Authoritative version of the Bible? I've heard people say that before, but never why. It's a serious matter to me, as I've been led to believe that it is was the most authoritative when it was written, but that we have since recovered more texts which seem to suggest that is is not any longer.

2. Wouldn't this way of doing things be really convenient when you try to convince yourself that what you're doing isn't specifically condemned in the section of the Bible you're supposed to read authoritatively? There were a lot of laws in the Old Testament Jesus never referred to specifically because everyone he was speaking to had them all memorized. For example 'sexual immorality' should be defined by the laws governing sexual immorality in the Old Testament, not by the few specific examples Jesus referred to specifically. Or am I misunderstanding?

3. How do you understand Acts as the Israelites rejecting the kingdom offer, exactly? Aren't most of the Christians in Acts Isrealites? It wasn't until about mid-acts that the Gentiles get called to join the Isrealites, speaking of which, how is the Isrealite offer and the Gentile offer different? I know the first council decides Circumcision isn't a salvation issue, and nether is temple sacrifices and clean and unclean animals, but could you show me where it says that those things are no longer applicable? Non-essential does not equate with 'gone' in my mind.

4. Revelation might say that, then again, I've actually read it, and there are a lot more plausible theories than the one you just typed. How did you come to this conclusion?

5. When did Hebrews become apocalyptic prophesy?

6. Is this theory rightly named Dispensationalism or Right Division, or is a better definition "how we decide which of Gods rules apply to us and which don't?" <-- I actually haven't heard either term before, I really do want clarification.

 

[RichardBurger]

AVBunyan, you got it right!!!!

A very clear presentation of the Bible from a dispensational viewpoint.

Unless you study the Bible from this viewpoint it will never make much sence. If you mix, harmonize, the scriptures and fail to understand the difference in each dispensation you completely destroy the meaning.

 

[Gideon]

7. What are some of the differences between what you get from 'mixing' the scriptures and taking a dispensationalist viewpoint?

 

[RichardBurger]

7. What are some of the differences between what you get from 'mixing' the scriptures and taking a dispensationalist viewpoint?

God has dealt with man in different ways in each dispensation. It has never been in the same way. Therefore it is obvious that if you think He is dealing with you in all those ways at the same time you will get it wrong.

Jesus did not do away with the law of Moses. Paul says we are not under the law of Moses. But when you mix it all together you are both under the law and not under the law and in a state of confusion. This is the truth.

Think of two mountain ranges. one in the distance before you and there is another behind it that you can only see the top of. ---- What is between the mountians before you and the one behind it. You can't see it. --- In between those mountains is the gospel of grace as taught by Paul. It was hidden in God and revealed to Paul. IMHO If you blend, mix, it with the gospel of the kingdom at hand as taught by Jesus and the 12 you are teaching a false gospel.

 

[veteran]

It's clear that our Heavenly Father had a Plan of Salvation through His Son before the foundation of the world. And that Plan begins in Genesis, not with Apostle Paul and men's traditions of Dispensationalism. God preserved a remnant that would be the foundation of His Salvation Plan starting in Genesis with the man Adam and the Seed of the woman. If one only sees His Plan of Salvation starting with our Lord's crucifixion and Apostle Paul, they'll tend to disregard the preserved remnant which God used to bring it forth.

Acts 7:36-39
36 He brought them out, after that He had shewed wonders and signs in the land of Egypt, and in the Red sea, and in the wilderness forty years.
37 This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear.
38 This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:
39 To whom our fathers would not obey, but thrust him from them, and in their hearts turned back again into Egypt,
(KJV)

Why did the prophet Stephen call the believers in Moses' day "the church in the wilderness"? Stephen is also quoting from Deut.18:15, which is about Christ...

Deut 18:15
15 The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;
(KJV)

What state were the majority of Gentiles of the nations in during that time when Moses said that to the children of Israel?



Eph 2:19-20
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
(KJV)

Why did Apostle Paul declare there the Old Testament "prophets" also make up part of the foundation of Christ's Church? I mean, the Old Testament prophets weren't around when Jesus came to die on the cross like the Apostles were, so why would Paul also include them in that foundation?


Eph 1:4-5
4 According as He hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,
(KJV)

Why did Apostle Paul show in Romans 11:1-5 that a remnant of the seed of Israel according to the election of grace was then also preserved by God unto Himself to serve Christ Jesus?

Heb 11:37-40
37 They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;
38 (Of whom the world was not worthy they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.
39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.(KJV)

What is meant there in those Hebrews 11 verses about the Old Testament saints that had Faith? Just because Christ did not come to die on the cross in their day, does that mean the Promise would never ever be to them? Why did Paul say all those who have believed on Christ Jesus have become the "children of Abraham"? (Gal.3).

And furthermore, what do time separations within God's progressive working of His Plan of Salvation have to do with the Pre-Tribulation "secret rapture" theory, which only came out of 1830's Great Britain through men like John Darby and Edward Irving? (I do know the answer to that, for Dispensationalism also came out of that era of 1830's Great Britain of the "secret rapture" theory among those deceived churches, Darby himself later denouncing the manifestations going on within the Irving church).

Dispensationalism is a false wall tempered with white-wash that will one day come tumbling down. It is only a disguised tool used for adding false doctrines within a timeline system of God's progressive working of His Plan of Salvation through His Son.

 

[chestertonrules]

What is Dispensationalism or Right Division?

I believe that it is a denial of these two passages:

Luke 24
45Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures. 46He told them, "This is what is written: The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, 47and repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Matt 28
18Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you.

 

[veteran]

Paul is the one God chose to bring us this new plan. His epistles tell us of this new church, which was hidden from the OT folks but now, revealed to those in that day by Paul. When God is finished building His church then this age will end with the church being pulled out and He will resume His dealings with His chosen people, Israel during the Tribulation.

Lot of falsehood in that above statement.

Matt 16:18
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
(KJV)

The New Testament foundation of Christ's Church began with HIS APOSTLES whom He called to be witnesses of His crucifixion, and to preach The Gospel and their personal witness to all nations. Paul declared that he himself was the 'least' of all the Apostles, because he at first persecuted the Church. YES, Christ's Church then already existed when Saul (Paul) persecuted it before Christ converted him on the road to Damascus. And per the Book of Acts, Christ's Church then was already made up of both believing Israelites and Gentiles, together as one Body. Paul's commission later by Christ was especially to take The Gospel to Gentiles, the SAME GOSPEL Christ's Apostles had.


Eph 2:19-22
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief corner stone;
21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
(KJV)

Before The Gospel was preached to the Gentiles, the Gentiles were strangers and foreigners, cut off from the household of God. To bring them in was what Paul's commission to the Gentiles was about. That means there had to exist a foundation to bring them into first, and what was that foundation even Paul himself declared there? The "foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief corner stone". Just what people were those "apostles and prophets" there anyhow? They were ALL ISRAELITES, and even our Lord Jesus Himself being born of the tribe of Judah of the house of David, with the tribe of Levi on His mother's side also.

Eph 3:3-6
3 How that by revelation He made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto His holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ by the gospel:
(KJV)

The mystery Paul speaks of is the bringing in of believing Gentiles into Christ's Body with The Gospel of Jesus Christ going to them also. A remnant of Israel had already believed and made up Christ's Body. Now with preaching to the Gentiles on a grand scale, they were also to be joined in "the same body". So what ignorant nut would ever think believing Israel could be excluded in that, especially since a believing remnant of Israel were the first to make up that Body?! And what's even more laughable about the modern views of Dispensationalism, is how they misuse Paul to declare the start of Christ's Church only with Gentiles, when Paul himself declared a believing remnant of Israel (Christ's Apostles) were the first to make up that "body" which the Gentiles would become a part of!

What Paul actually shows in his Epistles, is God's Plan of Salvation by a progressive working, the foundation having been started long ago in Old Testament times through a remnant of the Seed of the woman. That remnant began with the man Adam and continued all the way... down to our Lord Jesus Christ from Mary's womb. THAT IS WHY Christ's bloodline genealogy is given in Luke 3, all the way back to the man Adam, who was also called there "the son of God" (Luke 3:38).

Then, the idea that Gentiles in Christ Body will be secretly raptured out prior to the great tribulation, while Israel is left-behind to go through it is also a ludicrous idea, not written at all in God's Word. Christ's coming does not happen until the end of the great tribulation, like He showed in Matthew 24...

Matt 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
(KJV)

Our gathering to Christ is AFTER the tribulation, not before it.

 

[Gideon]

Jesus did not do away with the law of Moses. Paul says we are not under the law of Moses. But when you mix it all together you are both under the law and not under the law and in a state of confusion. This is the truth.

Just saying 'This is the Truth' does not make it so. Paul sees Jesus as the fulfillment of the old covenant, as in, the old covenant is a deflated balloon and Christ is the air, together, there is a 'new' covenant, which is in fact only what a deflated balloon (old covenant) has always been intended to do/be. Notice that in this analogy, the balloon is still there in it's entirety, only now in a new shape.

Think of two mountain ranges. one in the distance before you and there is another behind it that you can only see the top of. ---- What is between the mountians before you and the one behind it. You can't see it. --- In between those mountains is the gospel of grace as taught by Paul. It was hidden in God and revealed to Paul. IMHO If you blend, mix, it with the gospel of the kingdom at hand as taught by Jesus and the 12 you are teaching a false gospel.

Christianities first cult is named Gnosticism, from gnosis, meaning knowledge. They maintained that there was a secret knowledge revealed by Jesus/ Apostles/ God himself to one select person who then passed it down to them, who were the elect. The cult nearly became a very strong force in the early church, but was eventually 'defeated' in that Gnosticism became less-prevalent. Irenaeus in particular spent nearly his whole life refuting the many different forms of Gnosticism. It never did die out though, I find it ironic that a Gnostic idea (you just proved that to me in the above quote) like Dispensationalism, would pick Paul, who fought Gnosticism in Ephesus. The belief undermines the whole Christian message, because it is reserves only for a few, not to mention the Pride inherent in knowing that you are part of the Elect of the elect.

 

[mondar]

Dispensationalism... a particularly hard word to define. 40 years ago, this was not true. Charles Ryrie wrote the standard definition for Dispensationalism. Today, that definition has become more foggy. Saucy, Hodges, and many other of the progressive dispensational group have begun to deal with covenant, and kingdom in ways previous dispensationalists did not. There are now "progressive dispensationalists," "classic dispensationalists," "hyperdispensationalists," and even one distinguished scholar calls himself a "leaky dispensationalist." As dispensationalism fragments, the variety of dispensationalists makes the term becomes more difficult to define.

 

[veteran]

Dispensationalism is just another basket of fragments from the doctrines of men playing with God's Word, just like what our Lord Jesus warned His Apostles about with gathering up the 12 baskets of bread fragments after He had divided the loaves among the people. Beware of the leaven He warned.

 

[RichardBurger]

Jesus did not do away with the law of Moses. Paul says we are not under the law of Moses. But when you mix it all together you are both under the law and not under the law and in a state of confusion. This is the truth.

Just saying 'This is the Truth' does not make it so. Paul sees Jesus as the fulfillment of the old covenant, as in, the old covenant is a deflated balloon and Christ is the air, together, there is a 'new' covenant, which is in fact only what a deflated balloon (old covenant) has always been intended to do/be. Notice that in this analogy, the balloon is still there in it's entirety, only now in a new shape.

The same goes for what you said. Your saying it isn't so does not make it untrue. So there!!!!!! Ha! Ha!

You refuse to see that there was a change and then post "there is a 'new' covenant." Welll which is it, the same covenant or a new covenant?

I am not going to debate whether you are right or I am right. I believe what I wrote and you are feel to believe as you wish.

However, I have not smeared what you believe. Can you stop smearing what I believe or is that to much to much to ask?

 

[mondar]

Some here are going to have a dispensational tradition, others will have an anti-dispensational tradition. Many comments are either going to be trash talking about the other side, or a listing of verses with little exegetical explanation. It is beginning to look like the fray is on, and just bring out the war club and beat up on any opponents.

We still need to answer the question concerning the variety. Is there a central concept linking all the different forms of dispensationalism? Without a good concrete definition, dispensationalism is a moving target of foggy substance.

Again, there are such a huge variety of dispensationalists, it is bewildering. There are those of the prewrath rapture position, the schofield dispensational system, the later versions of S L Johnson and a few others.

Covenant Theologian Charles Hodge said there were 2 or 3 dispensations, does that make him a dispensationalist? Something new did happen at Pentecost. What was the Pentecost event really all about?

With what concept do believers today come under the blessings of God promised to Israel in the O. T? God promised Israel the New Covenant in Jeremiah 31:31-34. This is definitely quoted in Hebrews 8, 10, and 1Cor 11, 2 Cor 4, etc as being applied to believers today. How can this be? What is the relationship of believers today to the promises made to Israel in the OT? What is the relationship of our times to the "Day of the Lord?" In what way was Peter quoting Joel 2 in Acts 2? What about the apostolic use of the OT in the NT?

To actually begin answering these questions would take a book, or a series of books. Maybe it is better just to throw out a list of verses and then back it up with a lot of trash talk. Then we dont have to make the effort of really understanding how big the issue really is.

 

[glorydaz]

Dispensationalism is just another basket of fragments from the doctrines of men playing with God's Word, just like what our Lord Jesus warned His Apostles about with gathering up the 12 baskets of bread fragments after He had divided the loaves among the people. Beware of the leaven He warned.

I have to agree with you, Veteran. I just did a little search on all the different theologies man has put forth on the Bible and what a mess! I have no problem with a simple read-through....why the need to complicate something that is laid out perfectly for even the simplest among us is more than I can fathom. No wonder we have so many confilicting ideas...... :crazy

Man has always been saved by grace through faith, and Jesus is the focal point from beginning to end.

 

[Adullam]

There is a difference between simple and simplistic of course. God has been building His house through the entire narrative of the bible, we, being that habitation. The NT is like the addition of a new storey onto the existing structure. The OT is the ground level that the NT is built upon. Christianity is as an "upper room" as it were.

God is concerned with our character. This is the subject of the OT. Once the character is forged at a basic level (righteousnes) then a new revelation and nature is added. This requires a further training in character in order to achieve His aim, that is, the abiblity to abide in His holiness.

 

[veteran]

Dispensationalism is just another basket of fragments from the doctrines of men playing with God's Word, just like what our Lord Jesus warned His Apostles about with gathering up the 12 baskets of bread fragments after He had divided the loaves among the people. Beware of the leaven He warned.

I have to agree with you, Veteran. I just did a little search on all the different theologies man has put forth on the Bible and what a mess! I have no problem with a simple read-through....why the need to complicate something that is laid out perfectly for even the simplest among us is more than I can fathom. No wonder we have so many confilicting ideas...... :crazy

Man has always been saved by grace through faith, and Jesus is the focal point from beginning to end.

Right, we shouldn't have to spend more time explaining what God's Word doesn't say. It should be obvious by all the doctrines of confusion that there are hirelings which God did not call, and all they can do is play religion.

 

[veteran]

With what concept do believers today come under the blessings of God promised to Israel in the O. T? God promised Israel the New Covenant in Jeremiah 31:31-34. This is definitely quoted in Hebrews 8, 10, and 1Cor 11, 2 Cor 4, etc as being applied to believers today. How can this be? What is the relationship of believers today to the promises made to Israel in the OT? What is the relationship of our times to the "Day of the Lord?" In what way was Peter quoting Joel 2 in Acts 2? What about the apostolic use of the OT in the NT?

It's really not that difficult if one would just listen to God in His Word The Bible, instead of listening to men.

Our Lord Jesus explained in the parable of the husbandmen in Matt.21 that the kingdom of God would be given to another nation which would bring forth fruit. Only someone who has actually paid attention to the Old Testament prophets would then know what that vineyard in the parable represents, and thus how our Lord Jesus meant that.

Then it's a simple matter of Bible study to learn just what the Promises to Israel were about, and then looking for where they are manifested today.

Explanation of events to occur on 'the day of The Lord' began in the Old Testament prophets also, with more details given throughout the New Testament. So there again, it's a matter of simple Bible study, paying attention to what God says, and not what man says.

Every time someone comes here pushing a doctrine which some man says, it reveals they haven't studied all The Bible, so they have to rely on what some man says.

 

[RichardBurger]

Some here are going to have a dispensational tradition, others will have an anti-dispensational tradition. Many comments are either going to be trash talking about the other side, or a listing of verses with little exegetical explanation. It is beginning to look like the fray is on, and just bring out the war club and beat up on any opponents.

We still need to answer the question concerning the variety. Is there a central concept linking all the different forms of dispensationalism? Without a good concrete definition, dispensationalism is a moving target of foggy substance.

Again, there are such a huge variety of dispensationalists, it is bewildering. There are those of the prewrath rapture position, the schofield dispensational system, the later versions of S L Johnson and a few others.

Covenant Theologian Charles Hodge said there were 2 or 3 dispensations, does that make him a dispensationalist? Something new did happen at Pentecost. What was the Pentecost event really all about?

With what concept do believers today come under the blessings of God promised to Israel in the O. T? God promised Israel the New Covenant in Jeremiah 31:31-34. This is definitely quoted in Hebrews 8, 10, and 1Cor 11, 2 Cor 4, etc as being applied to believers today. How can this be? What is the relationship of believers today to the promises made to Israel in the OT? What is the relationship of our times to the "Day of the Lord?" In what way was Peter quoting Joel 2 in Acts 2? What about the apostolic use of the OT in the NT?

To actually begin answering these questions would take a book, or a series of books. Maybe it is better just to throw out a list of verses and then back it up with a lot of trash talk. Then we dont have to make the effort of really understanding how big the issue really is.

****
In the O.T. God made promises to Israel. These promises were specifically to Israel, not the Gentles. The only promise about the Gentiles is that they would be blessed if they blessed Israel. God promised a Messiah that would set up an earthly kingdom on this earth.. Jesus came to set up that kingdom on earth.

Israel rejected their king and the kingdom was put on hold.

In this dispensation nothing matters except what Jesus did on the cross. There is only one sin that condemns in this age, the sin of rejecting the work of God on the cross (John 3:16-18). If you do not put ""ALL"" your faith, trust, confidence and hope in Jesus' work on the cross you will not be saved.

God saw that all men are completely sinful in the flesh and He now has made a plan of salvation that does not depend on man's sinful nature to become sinless. Man becomes sinless only when the shed blood of Jesus makes him so in the spirit and that does not happen if a person does not really believe his/her sins are paid for on the cross. In other words if you do not believe ""ALL"" your sins are paid for by the shed blood of Jesus on the cross you are not saved.

In this dispensation religion is of no value except to teach social moral values. Social moral values do not save a person. Christ's work on the cross is all that matters.

 

[mondar]

With what concept do believers today come under the blessings of God promised to Israel in the O. T? God promised Israel the New Covenant in Jeremiah 31:31-34. This is definitely quoted in Hebrews 8, 10, and 1Cor 11, 2 Cor 4, etc as being applied to believers today. How can this be? What is the relationship of believers today to the promises made to Israel in the OT? What is the relationship of our times to the "Day of the Lord?" In what way was Peter quoting Joel 2 in Acts 2? What about the apostolic use of the OT in the NT?

It's really not that difficult if one would just listen to God in His Word The Bible, instead of listening to men.

Our Lord Jesus explained in the parable of the husbandmen in Matt.21 that the kingdom of God would be given to another nation which would bring forth fruit. Only someone who has actually paid attention to the Old Testament prophets would then know what that vineyard in the parable represents, and thus how our Lord Jesus meant that.

Then it's a simple matter of Bible study to learn just what the Promises to Israel were about, and then looking for where they are manifested today.

Explanation of events to occur on 'the day of The Lord' began in the Old Testament prophets also, with more details given throughout the New Testament. So there again, it's a matter of simple Bible study, paying attention to what God says, and not what man says.

Every time someone comes here pushing a doctrine which some man says, it reveals they haven't studied all The Bible, so they have to rely on what some man says.

Veteran, I find your post to be antagonistic and shallow. It is leading to nothing but trash talking.

 

[mondar]

Some here are going to have a dispensational tradition, others will have an anti-dispensational tradition. Many comments are either going to be trash talking about the other side, or a listing of verses with little exegetical explanation. It is beginning to look like the fray is on, and just bring out the war club and beat up on any opponents.

We still need to answer the question concerning the variety. Is there a central concept linking all the different forms of dispensationalism? Without a good concrete definition, dispensationalism is a moving target of foggy substance.

Again, there are such a huge variety of dispensationalists, it is bewildering. There are those of the prewrath rapture position, the schofield dispensational system, the later versions of S L Johnson and a few others.

Covenant Theologian Charles Hodge said there were 2 or 3 dispensations, does that make him a dispensationalist? Something new did happen at Pentecost. What was the Pentecost event really all about?

With what concept do believers today come under the blessings of God promised to Israel in the O. T? God promised Israel the New Covenant in Jeremiah 31:31-34. This is definitely quoted in Hebrews 8, 10, and 1Cor 11, 2 Cor 4, etc as being applied to believers today. How can this be? What is the relationship of believers today to the promises made to Israel in the OT? What is the relationship of our times to the "Day of the Lord?" In what way was Peter quoting Joel 2 in Acts 2? What about the apostolic use of the OT in the NT?

To actually begin answering these questions would take a book, or a series of books. Maybe it is better just to throw out a list of verses and then back it up with a lot of trash talk. Then we dont have to make the effort of really understanding how big the issue really is.

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In the O.T. God made promises to Israel. These promises were specifically to Israel, not the Gentles. The only promise about the Gentiles is that they would be blessed if they blessed Israel.

RB, I apologize in advance if I am going to sound condescending, but did you understand the issues of which I wrote?

I believe I mentioned that Jeremiah 31 was a promise to Israel. The question is why does the writer of Hebrews quote this passage in Hebrews 8ff and apply it to all saved? Why does Paul mention it in 2 Cor 4 to speak of his ministry. Every communion day, the preachers stands up and quotes words from 1 Cor 11 and says "this cup is the new covenant in my blood." I am not Jewish, and if I participate in that covenant according to the communion service, then some explaination needs to be made. As you, yourself, said... was not the new covenant given to Israel and Judah (Jeremiah 31:31)?

God promised a Messiah that would set up an earthly kingdom on this earth.. Jesus came to set up that kingdom on earth.

Israel rejected their king and the kingdom was put on hold.

In this dispensation nothing matters except what Jesus did on the cross. There is only one sin that condemns in this age, the sin of rejecting the work of God on the cross (John 3:16-18). If you do not put ""ALL"" your faith, trust, confidence and hope in Jesus' work on the cross you will not be saved.

God saw that all men are completely sinful in the flesh and He now has made a plan of salvation that does not depend on man's sinful nature to become sinless. Man becomes sinless only when the shed blood of Jesus makes him so in the spirit and that does not happen if a person does not really believe his/her sins are paid for on the cross. In other words if you do not believe ""ALL"" your sins are paid for by the shed blood of Jesus on the cross you are not saved.

In this dispensation religion is of no value except to teach social moral values. Social moral values do not save a person. Christ's work on the cross is all that matters.

Again, while I agree that the gospel is very important and to be believed, this looks like a smoke screen written because you did not understand my post.