What is required for a BAC to be acceptable to God?

[JohnDB]

Absolutely without question.
No murderer has eternal life.

Moses, Paul and David?
Let's not forget the worst either...
Manasseh.

All were guilty of murder...
All were forgiven.

 

[JLB]

Moses, Paul and David?
Let's not forget the worst either...
Manasseh.

All were guilty of murder...
All were forgiven.

Amen!


God is merciful.


However, she is referring to a Christian who dies in that condition without repenting.





JLB

 

[WIP]

Senior and JLB - let's try a hypothetical. let's say there is a man who got saved at 30. Knew he was a sinner, called on Jesus to save him and repented. Then began going to church, learning the bible and learning that he had more work to do - for example, getting over wanting to have a beer every day. About 5 years later he's not going to church much and drinking more than a beer every day and nearly gets in a car accident and realizes he needs to "get right" with God again.
Do you believe that if he died in the accident without having repented of his most current sin, that God would have sent him to hell?
What about if he died the next day - after he prayed and "rededicated" himself to God but hadn't yet had the time to go to church again or do any good works?

Do you see where I'm going with this? God will not be impressed with anything you've done or disappointed by what you haven't done. He's going to look to see if you are covered by his Son's blood and that's all.

What is sinful about having a beer every day?

 

[WIP]

Um, okay, I can tell the story again and change it to murder and not drinking, or wife beating and not drinking or thief but not a drinker . . but my questions are still valid -
Do you believe that if he died in the accident without having repented of his most current sin, that God would have sent him to hell?
What about if he died the next day - after he prayed and "rededicated" himself to God but hadn't yet had the time to go to church again or do any good works?

I think so many people look at Revelation 3:5 as a challenge instead of a promise. They read "the one who conquers" as if its a gauntlet being thrown down. There's no "if" there. Romans 8:37 - we are more than conquerors. Also 1 John 5:4.

What is the sin? Is it the murder or did he reject God?

 

[stovebolts]

Um, okay, I can tell the story again and change it to murder and not drinking, or wife beating and not drinking or thief but not a drinker . . but my questions are still valid -
Do you believe that if he died in the accident without having repented of his most current sin, that God would have sent him to hell?
What about if he died the next day - after he prayed and "rededicated" himself to God but hadn't yet had the time to go to church again or do any good works?

I think so many people look at Revelation 3:5 as a challenge instead of a promise. They read "the one who conquers" as if its a gauntlet being thrown down. There's no "if" there. Romans 8:37 - we are more than conquerors. Also 1 John 5:4.

Im glad Im not God, but ill side with grace on this one.
Grace is not a license to sin (Romans 2 and 3), but I like to look at it like this.

Grace looks at the heart of the situation and we know God gives us each a different measure of faith. We dont know another personal struggles, but God does, and this is where I believe grace comes in.

Grace says emphatically that sin is sin and its not ok. But in the same breath it says, "I understand, and I'm here to help you get through this, even if you fall. I'll even pick you up and carry you if I have to."

We know that those who dont believe are already condemned, but for somebody who is weak and gives way to the flesh yet still believes, God isn't going to forsake them.

 

[JLB]

We know that those who dont believe are already condemned, but for somebody who is weak and gives way to the flesh yet still believes, God isn't going to forsake them.

I couldn’t agree more. Just because we fall, and struggle with sin because we’re weak, God isn’t going to forsake us. He will continue to show mercy towards those who struggle giving them grace to repent and overcome and grow.


However, the scenario she gave comes to the end of the life of a person who believes, but still murders and dies before he can repent.


I hope we all can see the difference.


This person died in their sins, as a murderer.


Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15



The Lord makes available His mercy to us everyday, and gives everyone the opportunity to come before Him and be forgiven and cleansed of all unrighteousness, if we choose to.


If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:9





JLB

 

[RevSRE]

Evangelism has taught us that the thing we are working for is SALVATION.
Saved by GRACE through FAITH.
BUT THAT IS NOT ALL. If we are not living it we do not have it.
Jesus said "Go make Desciples" not just converts.
I will say it again, IF YOU ARE NOT LIVING IT YOU DO NOT HAVE IT!

Try this for an answer, Turn your eyes upon JESUS, look full in HIS wonderful face, and the things of the world will grow strangly dim in the light of HIS glory and GRACE.

Stop counting SINS and start LIVING FOR JESUS where there is no roon for sin.

 

[JLB]

Evangelism has taught us that the thing we are working for is SALVATION.
Saved by GRACE through FAITH.
BUT THAT IS NOT ALL. If we are not living it we do not have it.
Jesus said "Go make Desciples" not just converts.
I will say it again, IF YOU ARE NOT LIVING IT YOU DO NOT HAVE IT!

Try this for an answer, Turn your eyes upon JESUS, look full in HIS wonderful face, and the things of the world will grow strangly dim in the light of HIS glory and GRACE.

Stop counting SINS and start LIVING FOR JESUS where there is no roon for sin.

Good word Rev!

 

[Senior]

Is that sarcasm or did you finally figure out that a saved person with sin they haven't conquered or confessed is not going to end up in hell?

The NT is supposed to be teaching all BACs ...

A saved person with sin they haven't conquered or confessed
is going to end up in hell.

 

[Senior]

God will not give you the Holy Spirit if you are not called by him.
John 10:29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all;
no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand.

You're actually much closer to the Truth than most today.
John 10:29 ... but you can snatch yourself out of Father's hand.
We have the free will to do so!
This is what much of the epistles are all about.

BACs must CHOOSE to sin, or not to sin!
To be, or not to be (a habitual sinner leading to death).

This is why the Word came to live and die on the earth:
to set some of us FREE ... so we do NOT have to sin!

 

[Senior]

Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness
is righteous, just as He is righteous. 1 John 3:7

Great, but let us NOT omit the best part ...

“Little children, let no one deceive you.
He who practices righteousness is righteous,
just as He is righteous … In this the children of God
and the children of the devil are manifest:
Whoever does NOT practice righteousness is NOT of God,
NOR is he who does NOT love his brothers/sisters.”
(1 John 3:7-10)

 

[Senior]

Good day, sir.

That's the best thing you've said yet ... Thank you!

 

[Senior]

Perhaps they never did repent in the first place. And without repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 20:21),
they have not been justified by grace through faith. Thus not born again
(John 1:12,13).

Sure ... the Holman Bible says belief and repentance
are the 2 sides to the same coin!
Actually ...
True saving belief = enduring faith +
enduring trust + enduring obedience
+ no habitual sinning (w/o repentance).

 

[Senior]

What is sinful about having a beer every day?

Paul gives the qualifications for elders, deacons, etc.
several times ... one is not given to excessive drinking!

 

[stovebolts]

I couldn’t agree more. Just because we fall, and struggle with sin because we’re weak, God isn’t going to forsake us. He will continue to show mercy towards those who struggle giving them grace to repent and overcome and grow.


However, the scenario she gave comes to the end of the life of a person who believes, but still murders and dies before he can repent.


I hope we all can see the difference.


This person died in their sins, as a murderer.


Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15



The Lord makes available His mercy to us everyday, and gives everyone the opportunity to come before Him and be forgiven and cleansed of all unrighteousness, if we choose to.


If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:9





JLB

Yes, I understand what you are saying. You are without wavering that if one murders, or hates his brother without repenting of this sin before his death, that that person will spend eternity in hell for their lack of repentance.

What I say is this. Let God be judge over another's faith because in the end, it will be God who judges.

But there is a bigger picture here. As Christians, we are commanded to forgive the murderer, even if they murdered the one we love and held dear to us. Personally, I understand this first hand and where I once held hatred, I now hold pity and I am free from the bonds of their sin.

By way of example, Jesus cries out on the cross, Father forgive them.... And that is our example.

When Moses and the people crossed the sea, Pharoh and his army were crossing and got burried when the waters covered them. Mariam sung a victory song, but God sent them to bitter waters to teach them that victory is bitter sweet. I'm short, God does not rejoice in the destruction of the wicked, and neither should we.

My point? When we cast judgment, remember they may be bitter sweet, and don't get caught celebrating when we should be mourning for the wicked.

If we allow that bitter root to take hold, we become haters... And haters have no place in Gods Kingdom.

 

[WIP]

Paul gives the qualifications for elders, deacons, etc.
several times ... one is not given to excessive drinking!

So then I'll ask again. What is sinful about having a beer every day? Looks like one must read closely. Having a beer every day is not excessive unless one is an alcoholic and can't control himself or herself.

I might agree that having 12 beers every day could be excessive but maybe not. Maybe if the 12 beers were all consumed between the hours of say 8 am and noon. Then it might become excessive. Why? Because drinking that much over that short a period of time will undoubtedly result in one being drunk and to do that every day would then result in said drinker to be a drunkard and this is what Scripture says much about.

The results can vary depending on many factors such as body type, age, sex, medication, food you’ve had to eat, etc. For a typical person of my stature (male, 215 lbs, moderate build, not fasting) drinking one 12oz. light beer (~5% alcohol) per hour, I will never get drunk. It is possible but not likely that I could feel some minor affects from it but mostly very slight at best. My blood alcohol level would reach approximately .03%.

To put that into perspective, the current legal limit for driving in MN is .08% and even at that level, one is not often visually intoxicated. Just not considered capable of using sound judgment and reacting properly enough to drive an automobile safely.

 

[LovethroughDove]

You're actually much closer to the Truth than most today.
John 10:29 ... but you can snatch yourself out of Father's hand.
We have the free will to do so!
This is what much of the epistles are all about.

BACs must CHOOSE to sin, or not to sin!
To be, or not to be (a habitual sinner leading to death).

This is why the Word came to live and die on the earth:
to set some of us FREE ... so we do NOT have to sin!

I'm gonna talk a lot about paradoxes. This is one. When there are warnings to us about walking in righteousness, God is speaking to my flesh nature. It's like a parent that knows better and wants the best for their child. Not everyone has God as their Father, but since he is my Father and I love him......I listen.

The paradox is: The Spirit in me knows I'm sanctified because the devil cannot snatch me. But the flesh part of me heeds warnings because I know the devil lies constantly and I want to follow the voice of God.

 

[JLB]

What I say is this. Let God be judge over another's faith because in the end, it will be God who judges.

God will judge each of us according to our deeds.


God who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,
Romans 2:6-8



Here are those who will be given eternal life -

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;

Jesus said it this way -


Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.
John 5:28-29

• those who have done good, to the resurrection of life,

• and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

He gives us a new nature empowered by the Spirit so we have within us a wellspring of righteousness to draw from, to love, to walk in the truth, to practice righteousness; ie “to do good”.

Edit by Stovebolts

He is the source of our righteousness.


We must choose to draw from this vast resource of Life or live by and be ruled by our flesh and it’s desires.


The choice is up to each of us.



JLB

 

[stovebolts]

God will judge each of us according to our deeds.


God who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,
Romans 2:6-8



Here are those who will be given eternal life -

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;

Jesus said it this way -


Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.
John 5:28-29

• those who have done good, to the resurrection of life,

• and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

He gives us a new nature empowered by the Spirit so we have within us a wellspring of righteousness to draw from, to love, to walk in the truth, to practice righteousness; ie “to do good”.

Edit by Stovebolts

He is the source of our righteousness.


We must choose to draw from this vast resource of Life or live by and be ruled by our flesh and it’s desires.


The choice is up to each of us.



JLB

Yes, I agree, and God is still the judge and will judge all.

We are to use Jesus as our example.

1 John 2:6
Berean Study Bible
Whoever claims to abide in Him must walk as Jesus walked.

Do we claim to abide in Christ? If we do, then we do what Jesus does to the best of our ability.

John 2:17 NIV
For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.

Jesus came to seek and save the lost, he did not come to judge, but it save. Judgment will come, but it was not the mission of Jesus that he would set that example.

Do not misunderstand me. Judgment will come.

Let's make no mistake, Jesus was mocked, slandered and murdered, yet he says,

Luke 23:24

Berean Study Bible
Then Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing.” And they divided up His garments by casting lots.

By His example, we try to pattern our lives. When we are slandered, we try our best not to spit back. Instead, we seek reconciliation and we remain long suffering hoping the best for the one who slanders us.

For us who call ourselves Christians, we seek forgiveness and reconcilliation. As long as one party is willing, reconcilliation is always possible, but it starts with forgiveness.

If we cannot forgive, Jesus will not forgive us.

Matthew 6:14-15 NIV
For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15 But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.

Because if we can't forgive, chances are a bitter root can settle in. If we let that bitter root set in, were no better than the one who did us wrong and that bitterness can turn to hate. And we know hatred toward a brother is the same as a murderer, and neither will enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

I am not directing any of this personally toward you. What I write is for the good of all, including myself.

 

[lisa-in-FL]

Amen!


God is merciful.


However, she is referring to a Christian who dies in that condition without repenting.





JLB

Why do you hit return 5-10 times between each sentence you type out?

And, actually, if you read my original post on the subject I posed two different questions. Had the saved, born again man realized he was on the wrong path but not actually repented yet would God send him to hell? And what about if he had repented but died before he had a chance to change his ways?
You immediately requested that I change the sin to murder and I'm not sure why. There is no scale in the bible that shows any one sin is worse than another. Lying = murder = idol worship = adultery and so on.