jasonc
Member
Oh I agree,I remind myself and pre triggers of that .
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Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
WHAT IS SOON TO COME TO PASS IN THIS WORLD - BIBLE PROPHECY
- Thread starter iLOVE
- Start date
my indignation would be it is silly if that is what is meant as hypocrite for not being pre trib. i have listened to several pre trib preachers/teachers over the years. i have yet to hear the fear factor played or the hypocrite . the pre trib will defend there position and not back down. rightfully so . they have studied it out and have plenty scriptures to back it up . just like those who are trib believers . i have said this sev times and i will say it again personally i do not agree we will go through the great trib. once again could i be wrong ? yes could others who oppose it be wrong? yes i dont have to be right only right with God and ready like the 5 wise virgins in math 25. that is the only thing i have to be right on.. { this is a recorded message to hear it again press 1 }
daninthelionsden
Member
OK let's move on to something else. Shall we brother?
gladly
iLOVE
Member
THE DIFFERENCE IN THE RAPTURE AND THE SECOND COMING
Many people fail to distinguish between the Rapture of the Church and the Second Coming of Christ. The chart below gives a brief contrast:
JSM
Many people fail to distinguish between the Rapture of the Church and the Second Coming of Christ. The chart below gives a brief contrast:
| Rapture of the Church | Second Coming of Christ |
| 1. Occurs before the Tribulation (Lk. 21:36) | 1. Occurs after the Tribulation (Mat. 24:29-30) |
| 2. Christ comes for the Saints (I Thess. 4:13-17) | 2. Christ comes with the Saints (Jude 14; Rev. 19:11-21) |
| 3. Christ takes the Saints to Heaven (Jn. 14:3) | 3. Christ brings the Saints back to Earth (Zech. 14:4-5; Rev. 19:14) |
| 4. Christ returns to the clouds (I Thess. 4:17) | 4. Christ returns to the Earth (Zech. 14:4-5) |
| 5. Christ is not seen (I Cor. 15:52) | 5. Every eye shall see Christ (Rev. 1:7) |
| 6. It is the “Blessed Hope” of the Church (Titus 2:13) | 6. It is the great day of His “Wrath” (Rev. 19:15) |
JSM
iLOVE
Member
Praise God, the Rapture will bring the completed manifestation of Christ’s Finished Work for us at Calvary! For the Believer, the Rapture is Independence Day! Once and for all, we will be totally and completely freed from our corrupted nature, freed from all effects of sin! Glory to God! Let’s take a closer look at the events taking place in Heaven (which parallel the events of the Tribulation on Earth). All Believers must appear before the Judgment Seat of Christ according to II Corinthians 5:10. Remember this is not for the purpose of dealing with sin, however, a careful ledger has been kept of every work the Believer has performed since he became a Christian (Mat. 12:36; Rom. 14:12; II Cor. 5:10).
Believers will be judged on the basis of:
1. Doctrinal Beliefs – true or false (Rom. 2:14-16; 14:1-10).
2. Conduct toward others – kind or unkind (Mat. 18:10; Mk. 9:41; II Tim. 4:14).
3. Stewardship – faithful or unfaithful (Mat. 25:14-29; Lk. 12:42-44; I Cor. 4:1-5).
4. Words – good or bad (Mat. 12:36-37; Eph. 4:29).
5. Talents – used or wasted (Mat. 5:15-16; Mk. 4:25).
6. Attitudes – Christlike or selfish (Mat. 6:1-7; Eph. 4:30-32).
7. Motives – right or wrong (Mat. 6:16-18; Lk. 14:12-14).
8. Traits – Spiritual or carnal (Rom. 2:1-6; Col. 3:8-16).
9. Every Deed – worthy or worthless (Mk. 9:41; Col. 3:23-25).
The deeds performed in a worthy manner will be rewarded, but those deeds Christ judges unworthy will be burned and will cause the Believer lost rewards (I Cor. 3:12-15).
The following rewards have been promised for faithful service to the Lord:
1. Victor’s Crown (I Cor. 9:25).
2. Crown of Righteousness (II Tim. 4:8).
3. Crown of Rejoicing (I Thess. 2:19).
4. Crown of Life (James 1:12).
5. Crown of Glory (I Pet. 5:4).
6. Martyr’s Crown (Rev. 2:10).
7. Crown of Gold (Rev. 4:4).
And because Scripture clearly indicates that it is possible for someone else to take our crown (Rev. 3:11), it behooves every Christian to be diligent in his service to the King of kings! Believers will also be given a mansion in which to live eternally (Jn. 14:2), and Christ will determine the amount of earthly rulership to give each Saint based on his faithfulness to God in this present life (Lk. 19:12-26). Believers will reign as kings and priests with Christ forever (Rev. 1:6; 5:10). Following the Judgment Seat of Christ will be the Marriage Supper of the Lamb. This speaks of the Bride of Christ, all the redeemed from every Dispensation who will live in the New Jerusalem. “Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to Him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and His Wife has made herself ready. And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the Righteousness of Saints. And he said unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the Marriage Supper of the Lamb. And he said unto me, These are the true sayings of God” (Rev. 19:7-9). What a time of reunion, celebration, and worship Believers have in store! Are you ready? Are you in a committed, Covenant relationship with Christ? Are you a Bride adorned for her Husband? Is your heart singing, “. . . when I hear that last trumpet sound, my feet won’t stay on the ground”? If your answers are “yes,” then, as my husband often says, “Well, Glory!”
JSM
Believers will be judged on the basis of:
1. Doctrinal Beliefs – true or false (Rom. 2:14-16; 14:1-10).
2. Conduct toward others – kind or unkind (Mat. 18:10; Mk. 9:41; II Tim. 4:14).
3. Stewardship – faithful or unfaithful (Mat. 25:14-29; Lk. 12:42-44; I Cor. 4:1-5).
4. Words – good or bad (Mat. 12:36-37; Eph. 4:29).
5. Talents – used or wasted (Mat. 5:15-16; Mk. 4:25).
6. Attitudes – Christlike or selfish (Mat. 6:1-7; Eph. 4:30-32).
7. Motives – right or wrong (Mat. 6:16-18; Lk. 14:12-14).
8. Traits – Spiritual or carnal (Rom. 2:1-6; Col. 3:8-16).
9. Every Deed – worthy or worthless (Mk. 9:41; Col. 3:23-25).
The deeds performed in a worthy manner will be rewarded, but those deeds Christ judges unworthy will be burned and will cause the Believer lost rewards (I Cor. 3:12-15).
The following rewards have been promised for faithful service to the Lord:
1. Victor’s Crown (I Cor. 9:25).
2. Crown of Righteousness (II Tim. 4:8).
3. Crown of Rejoicing (I Thess. 2:19).
4. Crown of Life (James 1:12).
5. Crown of Glory (I Pet. 5:4).
6. Martyr’s Crown (Rev. 2:10).
7. Crown of Gold (Rev. 4:4).
And because Scripture clearly indicates that it is possible for someone else to take our crown (Rev. 3:11), it behooves every Christian to be diligent in his service to the King of kings! Believers will also be given a mansion in which to live eternally (Jn. 14:2), and Christ will determine the amount of earthly rulership to give each Saint based on his faithfulness to God in this present life (Lk. 19:12-26). Believers will reign as kings and priests with Christ forever (Rev. 1:6; 5:10). Following the Judgment Seat of Christ will be the Marriage Supper of the Lamb. This speaks of the Bride of Christ, all the redeemed from every Dispensation who will live in the New Jerusalem. “Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to Him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and His Wife has made herself ready. And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the Righteousness of Saints. And he said unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the Marriage Supper of the Lamb. And he said unto me, These are the true sayings of God” (Rev. 19:7-9). What a time of reunion, celebration, and worship Believers have in store! Are you ready? Are you in a committed, Covenant relationship with Christ? Are you a Bride adorned for her Husband? Is your heart singing, “. . . when I hear that last trumpet sound, my feet won’t stay on the ground”? If your answers are “yes,” then, as my husband often says, “Well, Glory!”
JSM
this is very well put together as a defense of pre trib rapture
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
By studying all the scriptures below in Revelations I come to the conclusion we will see much tribulation, but not to fear what must come, but stand strong in the faith of Christ Jesus so we can endure until the coming of the Lord as God has a place prepared for us in the wilderness as His wrath passes over the earth, Rev 12:6. We need to be His witnesses as a faithful servant until He returns. God's wrath is not for the elect of God as they are kept from it falling on them and when we see the abomination that causes desolation, Daniel Chater 7; Matthew 24:15-22; Rev Chapter 13, we are to flee from taking its mark as we stand in a greater faith in Christ that we need not fear that which has to come first before Christ returns, Matthew 10:28, but that we need to be prepared as His Bride when He does return on the last day and destroys the beast and false prophet at His coming, Rev 19.
Act 14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God as we are also His disciples.
Mat 24:13,29-31 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Matthew 24:29-31; Rev 3:5; 19:8 Jesus is telling us to watch for the signs of His coming and to overcome so that our names are not blotted out of the Lamb's book of life.
Rev 5:13; 6:17; 7:1-5 On earth and under the earth are those who are still here until the end of days as God's wrath begins with the opening of the seventh seal.
Rev 6:9-11 Note where John says fellow servants and brethren that should be killed as they were, which means those of the elect of God who refuse to take the mark of the beast and will die a martyr's death for their faith in Christ.
Rev 7:13-17 Which came out of great tribulation is the fullness of the Gentiles who also died a martyr's death for the sake of Christ.
Rev 8:13 Three woes are that of warning the people on earth that the last three trumpets are about to sound.
Rev 13:11-18 Here John is showing us about mystery Babylon ruling the world as a one world government. 666 represents the number of the beast and the mark is the action of the hands and thoughts of the mind as many will be deceived and accept this mark.
Rev 14:14-20 The harvest of Gods Children who are still alive at this time as they are being protected against the vial judgments that will fall on those who have rejected Christ.
Rev 16:11,15 And they repented not. The elect of God are told to watch for the return of Christ as He comes like a theif and we are to keep our garments clean and not found in shame
Rev 18:23, 24 We have now come out of great tribulation through the persecution of the revived Roman Empire and Christ is about to return for His Bride
Rev 19:7,8 We being the Bride of Christ have now made ourselves ready for His coming as those who are still alive at this time and asleep in the grave have endured until the last day when Christ returns and destroys the beast and false prophet and sends His angels out to gather the Bride up to meet Jesus in the air.
Rev 20:4-6 These verses show that we went through much annihilation and endured until the end being the last day when Christ returns.
Rev 20:12-15 The Great White Throne judgment and Jesus judgment for the works we did or did not do for him here on earth
John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
By studying all the scriptures below in Revelations I come to the conclusion we will see much tribulation, but not to fear what must come, but stand strong in the faith of Christ Jesus so we can endure until the coming of the Lord as God has a place prepared for us in the wilderness as His wrath passes over the earth, Rev 12:6. We need to be His witnesses as a faithful servant until He returns. God's wrath is not for the elect of God as they are kept from it falling on them and when we see the abomination that causes desolation, Daniel Chater 7; Matthew 24:15-22; Rev Chapter 13, we are to flee from taking its mark as we stand in a greater faith in Christ that we need not fear that which has to come first before Christ returns, Matthew 10:28, but that we need to be prepared as His Bride when He does return on the last day and destroys the beast and false prophet at His coming, Rev 19.
Act 14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God as we are also His disciples.
Mat 24:13,29-31 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Matthew 24:29-31; Rev 3:5; 19:8 Jesus is telling us to watch for the signs of His coming and to overcome so that our names are not blotted out of the Lamb's book of life.
Rev 5:13; 6:17; 7:1-5 On earth and under the earth are those who are still here until the end of days as God's wrath begins with the opening of the seventh seal.
Rev 6:9-11 Note where John says fellow servants and brethren that should be killed as they were, which means those of the elect of God who refuse to take the mark of the beast and will die a martyr's death for their faith in Christ.
Rev 7:13-17 Which came out of great tribulation is the fullness of the Gentiles who also died a martyr's death for the sake of Christ.
Rev 8:13 Three woes are that of warning the people on earth that the last three trumpets are about to sound.
Rev 13:11-18 Here John is showing us about mystery Babylon ruling the world as a one world government. 666 represents the number of the beast and the mark is the action of the hands and thoughts of the mind as many will be deceived and accept this mark.
Rev 14:14-20 The harvest of Gods Children who are still alive at this time as they are being protected against the vial judgments that will fall on those who have rejected Christ.
Rev 16:11,15 And they repented not. The elect of God are told to watch for the return of Christ as He comes like a theif and we are to keep our garments clean and not found in shame
Rev 18:23, 24 We have now come out of great tribulation through the persecution of the revived Roman Empire and Christ is about to return for His Bride
Rev 19:7,8 We being the Bride of Christ have now made ourselves ready for His coming as those who are still alive at this time and asleep in the grave have endured until the last day when Christ returns and destroys the beast and false prophet and sends His angels out to gather the Bride up to meet Jesus in the air.
Rev 20:4-6 These verses show that we went through much annihilation and endured until the end being the last day when Christ returns.
Rev 20:12-15 The Great White Throne judgment and Jesus judgment for the works we did or did not do for him here on earth
lol that didnt take long
what is your take on i love post "Many people fail to distinguish between the Rapture of the Church and the Second Coming of Christ. " compared to yours?
Dave Watchman
Member
It could mean that the "tribulation of those days" comes before the tribulation that comes after that.
There's still the no flesh saved alive tribulation, like the vials, that happens AFTER the last day of salvation.
What I mean is that, we might be misunderstanding the "no flesh saved alive" part. Probably most here assume the "no flesh saved alive" part is so that people will be here to inhabit the millennium. My understanding of the great city being split into three parts would negate that as an option.
But if ALL flesh were killed by the 4th vial, scripture could not be fulfilled. There has to be people alive for the great winepress. So that the Rider on the white horse could issue the command for them to die.
The sharp sword has to find a target.
I don't think we'll be here for the vials.
"The rest of mankind, who were not killed by these plagues, did not repent of the works of their hands nor give up worshiping demons and idols of gold and silver and bronze and stone and wood, which cannot see or hear or walk, nor did they repent of their murders or their sorceries or their sexual immorality or their thefts.
It talks about "the rest of mankind". They were not killed by the plagues. And they did NOT repent. What happened to the Christians?
But for sure before the vials we are gone.
Before Armegeddon we are out of the picture.
Only the unrepentant remain:
4th vial:
"They were seared by the intense heat and they cursed the name of God, who had control over these plagues, but they refused to repent and glorify him.
5th vial:
"People gnawed their tongues in agony and cursed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, but they refused to repent of what they had done.
I think God's people are gone here. And the lost are cursing God. They know that the God of the Bible is coming back, but they don't care.
I'm not a classic pre trib person, but I think we're already deeper than we recognize into the narrative.
When things get going, I don't think that the pre trip people, OR the post trib people, will be disappointed.
I'm sure we're already part way through the 42 months of Revelation 13.
Pin the tail on him.
deeper i think you have a valid point when paul wrote about perilous times to timothy.he was trying to prepare Timothy for his future . i am sure Timothy went through some hard times.. imo and that is all we are experiencing events leading up to the end times. the things in revelations present future past is a little bit of Both . what we do know is God has not appointed us to wrath but to obtain salvation . am i a pretrib believer i am on the fence either way.. so i am a want to be ready believer to meet him. amos 4:12 prepare to meet thy God . Matthew 24:6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
Show me scripture where Christ returns twice?
1 Thessalonians 4:16–17:
For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. "rapture "
Matthew 24:29–30
the return to earth to execute judgment
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
naturally you will reject.. we have two different interpretations your and i love . i asked what you had to say. in comparison
For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. "rapture "
Matthew 24:29–30
the return to earth to execute judgment
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
naturally you will reject.. we have two different interpretations your and i love . i asked what you had to say. in comparison
this is pre trib the next post will be after trib return
we have 2 different interpretations both backed by scriptures
DELETE MY POST this is a dead end obvious not a topic to be discussed
Those scriptures say nothing about Christ returning twice. I already gave my comparison in post #28.
naturally see the point you refuse to see is INTERPRETATION --->the act or the result of interpreting : EXPLANATION everyone has there's but most refuse others because its not theres . its like a general baptist wanting to join a southern baptist church . still believe osnas not going to happen until you confound to there doctrine .in some cases baptized again into there Church . this has been my entire point btw the two scriptures does show two different timings of the return of Christ
Can you explain to me two different comings in 1 Thessalonians 4:16, 17 and Matthew 24:29,30 as I can't see it.
When you put together the full context of Matthew 24:29-31; John 5:28, 29; John 6:40; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18; 1 Corinthians 15:50-58; Rev 1:7, Rev 19:6-21 Jesus only returns once on the last day.
I know you won't believe me and that's OK as I never ask anyone to believe me, but to believe that which has already been written in its full context.