What specifically is "guaranteed to come" in 2 Cor 1:22 and 5:5?

[chessman]

The guarantee is that we are sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise that as long as we continue to believe and abide in Christ we will have eternal life with Him.

— having heard the word of truth, the good-news of your salvation, in which also having put-faith— you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, Who is a pledge of our inheritance ________________ ​

Ephesians 1:13-14

A. as long as we continue to believe and abide in Christ
B. until the [final] redemption

 

[JLB]

2 Corinthians 1:22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.
Where does it say ownership in this verse? We are only sealed by the Holy Spirit as the promise has been made that if we endure all trials and tribulations while on earth then we will be saved and have eternal life with the Father when Christ returns, Matthew 24:13.

Exactly.


JLB

 

[Honey]

Scriptures used are in order so as to make one concise statement reiterating and affirming the Biblical fact of irrevocable eternal salvation by the grace of God.



John 5:24 ,Romans 6:23 ,Ephesians 2:8 , John 6:37,1 John 5:12,1 John 5:18,Ephesians 2:8-9, John 3:16-17, Hebrews 10:10, Romans 6:23, James 1:17, Romans 11:29
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord,For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life.We know that everyone who has been born of God does not keep on sinning, but he who was born of God protects him, and the evil one does not touch him.For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever believeth in him shall not perish but have immortal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights with whom there is no variation or shadow due to change.For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.

 

[JLB]

Scriptures used are in order so as to make one concise statement reiterating and affirming the Biblical fact of irrevocable eternal salvation by the grace of God.



John 5:24 ,Romans 6:23 ,Ephesians 2:8 , John 6:37,1 John 5:12,1 John 5:18,Ephesians 2:8-9, John 3:16-17, Hebrews 10:10, Romans 6:23, James 1:17, Romans 11:29
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord,For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life.We know that everyone who has been born of God does not keep on sinning, but he who was born of God protects him, and the evil one does not touch him.For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever believeth in him shall not perish but have immortal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights with whom there is no variation or shadow due to change.For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.

22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:22-23

• you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life.
• For the wages of sin is death

JLB

 

[FreeGrace]

I have already explained and given you the scriptures that explain what "as long as" means in post #5 so no need to rehash them as you will not accept them just because the actual words "as Long as" are not actually written in them

And...that's the whole reason I reject your interpretation of those verses. You've added the words "as long as" when they DO NOT OCCUR.

That's the point that it seems you're not willing to accept.

and those words are not adding anything, but explaining something.

Of course they add something. Not "explain" something. They add what's NOT THERE.

They add what you'd wish was there. But aren't there.

The way you are presenting your belief is that once we believe we have eternal life, which is true, but even if we no longer believe we still have eternal life and this is false.

There are NO VERSES that include the concept of "as long as...".

You've not even tried to use Greek grammar to support your theory. But even if that was tried, it can be easily shown that not even the verses with the present tense support your claim, and those verses with the aorist tense refute your claim.

The guarantee is that we are sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise that as long as we continue to believe and abide in Christ we will have eternal life with Him. Sorry you can not understand that, but that is exactly what scripture teaches us.

There it is again, "as long as". That is an opinion only, without any evidence from Scripture.

That's why it's impossible to even have a reasonable discussion with those of your views on eternal security. The concept of "as long as" is so strong, YET without any support from Scripture.

Those words do not occur. Not in words, and not in idea.

What Jesus said is clear. Those who have been given eternal life, which occurs WHEN one believes, shall never perish.

So reading John 10:28 and inserting "as long as..." anything else is simply rejecting what Jesus said and adding what one WANTS Jesus to say instead.

 

[FreeGrace]

What is garauteed to come for saints who endure persecution because of their godly lifestyle is eternal life.

Where does one find the condition of "enduring persecution" in ANY of the verses about being sealed and being guaranteed an inheritance?

Conflating unrelated verses in order to try to support a theory is not legitimate Bible study.

What is garauteed to come for saints who live to gratify the unrighteous desires of the flesh is eternal death.

Wrong. The Bible actually says those "having believed" are sealed. And having been sealed, ARE guaranteed an inheritance for the day of redemption.

Very straightforward actually.
JLB

Yes, it is. But you've attempted to twist the verses into something they DO NOT SAY.

 

[FreeGrace]

Those who obey the Gospel have the seal or mark of authenticity upon them, which is the Holy Spirit, the down payment which garautees the salvation to come.

Please provide support for this claim. Eph 1:13,14 says nothing about "obeying the gospel". The sealing with the Holy Spirit is for those having believed. The tense is aorist, which indicates a point in time action only.

If a person has a garauntee of something, then by default they do not yet have that something.
JLB

Please provide support for this claim of losing a guarantee by this mythical "default". Where does the Bible teach any sort of thing?

What we know clearly from Jesus' own teaching is that:
1. Eternal life is given by Him. John 10:28a
2. Eternal life is given WHEN one believes. John 5:24, 6:47
3. Recipients of eternal life shall NEVER PERISH. John 10:28b

These 3 facts cannot be refuted. They can be rejected, ignored, twisted, etc.

 

[FreeGrace]

Paul was referring to the salvation to come.



JLB

Wrong. He was referring to our inheritance for the day of redemption, which is to come. Eph 1:14 says so clearly.

 

[FreeGrace]

I quoted 2 verses:
2 Cor 1:22 - set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

2 Cor 5:5 - Now the one who has fashioned us for this very purpose is God, who has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

If I can't use "as long as" as you say it's adding to the word then how can you explain "guaranteeing what is to come" as those exact words are not in the two scriptures you posted so would that not be adding or do you have a double standard.

Didn't you read the 2 verses. The words "guaranteeing what is to come" DO OCCUR in those 2 verses. They do in the NIV.

I don't add words to Scripture, as you've done. I just quote the verses, and even then get this silly blowback.

Bible hub.com gives 28 translations of verses on the same page. 6 of them use "guarantee". The rest use synonyms like "earnest", "promise", "pledge", "down payment", "certain",

So I've NOT added anything to any verses.

Again, unless there are any verses that include the mythical condition of "as long as..." in regard to keeping salvation or not perishing, there is no reason to accept such a view.

 

[FreeGrace]

2 Corinthians 1:22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.
Where does it say ownership in this verse? We are only sealed by the Holy Spirit as the promise has been made that if we endure all trials and tribulations while on earth then we will be saved and have eternal life with the Father when Christ returns, Matthew 24:13.

2 Corinthians5:5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.
Where does it say deposit in this verse?

This is a great example of nitpicking.

The 2 verses in 2 Cor must be considered with Eph 1:13,14 and 4:30.

So, let's do:
13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,

14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

4:30 - And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

So, there they are. ALL the words I've used ARE IN THE BIBLE.

Again, I've added nothing to God's Word, unlike some here.

 

[JLB]

Wrong. He was referring to our inheritance for the day of redemption, which is to come. Eph 1:14 says so clearly.

What is to come, is the Day of Judgement, when the Lord returns and gathers His people at the resurrection/rapture, in which all His people will stand before Him to be judged according to our deeds. This account is detailed in Matthew 25:31-46.

Some will inherit the kingdom of God, some will not.
Some will enter the kingdom of God and some will not.

We who have faith in Christ for eternal life, have the hope of this inheritance in which we have the Spirit as a deposit, as a garuantee of that promise.

• that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

This hope we have will be realized when we come forth at the resurrection of life, in which we hear these words from our beloved Savior:

• Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

Please read the context of 2 Corinthians 5:5, which to quoted in the OP, along with 2 Corinthians 1:19-24, and have tied to Ephesians 1:14.


2 Corinthians 5:1-11

For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with our habitation which is from heaven, 3 if indeed, having been clothed, we shall not be found naked. 4 For we who are in this tent groan, being burdened, not because we want to be unclothed, but further clothed, that mortality may be swallowed up by life. 5 Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.

6 So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord. 7 For we walk by faith, not by sight. 8 We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.

The Judgment Seat of Christ

9 Therefore we make it our aim, whether present or absent, to be well pleasing to Him. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad. 11 Knowing, therefore, the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are well known to God, and I also trust are well known in your consciences. 2 Corinthians 5:1-11



2 Corinthians 1:19-24

19 For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you by us—by me, Silvanus, and Timothy—was not Yes and No, but in Him was Yes. 20 For all the promises of God in Him are Yes, and in Him Amen, to the glory of God through us. 21 Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and has anointed us is God, 22 who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.

23 Moreover I call God as witness against my soul, that to spare you I came no more to Corinth. 24 Not that we have dominion over your faith, but are fellow workers for your joy; for by faith you stand. 2 Corinthians 1:19-24



JLB

 

[JLB]

Please provide support for this claim. Eph 1:13,14 says nothing about "obeying the gospel". The sealing with the Holy Spirit is for those having believed. The tense is aorist, which indicates a point in time action only.

Obeying the Gospel is the central theme of our faith, and is tied to the day of Judgement when Jesus Christ returns and Judges each person according to our deeds, in which we either come forth in the resurrection of life or the resurrection of condemnation.

Whether we inherit the kingdom of God or not.
Whether we enter the kingdom of God or not.


You will never be able to disconnect our inheritance of salvation and eternal life from the Day Jesus returns and Judges His people according to our deeds.


3 We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is fitting, because your faith grows exceedingly, and the love of every one of you all abounds toward each other, 4 so that we ourselves boast of you among the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that you endure, 5 which is manifest evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you also suffer; 6 since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with tribulation those who trouble you, 7 and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, 8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who believe, because our testimony among you was believed. 2 Thessalonians 1:3-10

• when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who believe,

• in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.

JLB

 

[JLB]

Where does one find the condition of "enduring persecution" in ANY of the verses about being sealed and being guaranteed an inheritance?

Conflating unrelated verses in order to try to support a theory is not legitimate Bible study.

To have a fruitful Bible study we must not take a verse, or part of a passage, and isolate it, but rather we should reconcile what all the scriptures have to say about a given subject.

Disconnecting our inheritance in God’s kingdom, from that Day when He returns to grant to each of those who have been faithful in this life, to enter His kingdom, which is when we inherit eternal life in the kingdom of God, is not sound Bible Study.


And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or lands, for My name’s sake, shall receive a hundredfold, and inherit eternal life. Matthew 19:29

• for My name’s sake, shall receive a hundredfold, and inherit eternal life.

• that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life. Titus 3:7

Heirs have the hope of inheriting something in the future.


For those who who have faith in Christ Jesus, we have the hope of inheriting the kingdom of God, in which we will be joint heirs with Christ.


16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, 17 and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together.
Romans 8:16-17


What inheritance would the prodigal son have had if he never would have repented and returned to his father, but remained lost?


If we are honest, we know he would have no inheritance, but would have been lost forever.



JLB

 

[Papa Zoom]

I don't know why you two don't just do a one on one debate. That would be a good solution to the ubiquitous OSAS threads that never seem to find resolution. I'm speaking as a mod here and I'm not complaining. It's a good suggestion. I'm speaking to the main posters here. I know there are more than two but there are only two main contributors.

 

[Papa Zoom]

BTW, if in the OSAS thread people don't show more charity to the opposing points of view, I will simply close them without warning as I'm sick of the back and forth but particular the uncharitable approach that I see in many posts (on both sides). Please do not respond to this post.

 

[for_his_glory]

This is a great example of nitpicking.

The 2 verses in 2 Cor must be considered with Eph 1:13,14 and 4:30.

So, let's do:
13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,

14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

4:30 - And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

So, there they are. ALL the words I've used ARE IN THE BIBLE.

Again, I've added nothing to God's Word, unlike some here.

Not nitpicking, just showing you have done the same thing you accused me of doing. That's called a double standard.
Again, where is the actual words you added that say "a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come." as those words are not in my KJV Bible. Maybe you are using a different Bible. This is only words of explanation like I used "as long as".

I still stand on what I said about what the guarantee is.

 

[for_his_glory]

— having heard the word of truth, the good-news of your salvation, in which also having put-faith— you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, Who is a pledge of our inheritance ________________ ​

Ephesians 1:13-14

A. as long as we continue to believe and abide in Christ
B. until the [final] redemption

Exactly as I have been saying.

 

[for_his_glory]

Scriptures used are in order so as to make one concise statement reiterating and affirming the Biblical fact of irrevocable eternal salvation by the grace of God.



John 5:24 ,Romans 6:23 ,Ephesians 2:8 , John 6:37,1 John 5:12,1 John 5:18,Ephesians 2:8-9, John 3:16-17, Hebrews 10:10, Romans 6:23, James 1:17, Romans 11:29
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord,For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life.We know that everyone who has been born of God does not keep on sinning, but he who was born of God protects him, and the evil one does not touch him.For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever believeth in him shall not perish but have immortal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights with whom there is no variation or shadow due to change.For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.

As long as you believe and stay grounded in faith. To those who do the promise irrevocable.

 

[FreeGrace]

What is to come, is the Day of Judgement, when the Lord returns and gathers His people at the resurrection/rapture, in which all His people will stand before Him to be judged according to our deeds. This account is detailed in Matthew 25:31-46.

No, the OP was quite clear. As is the Bible, about "what is to come". In Eph 1:14, we know that the believer's inheritance is guaranteed for the day of redemption.

Here's the verse: " who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory."

Then, in Eph 4:30 we have this: "And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption."

So, what is to come is the believer's GUARANTEED INHERITANCE for the day of redemption.

Some will inherit the kingdom of God, some will not.
Some will enter the kingdom of God and some will not.

This is irrelevant to the OP. It's about what is GUARANTEED. And what is GUARANTEED for the day of redemption is the believer's inheritance.

How is this GUARANTEE not about eternal security?

We who have faith in Christ for eternal life, have the hope of this inheritance in which we have the Spirit as a deposit, as a garuantee of that promise.

As long as one understands the Greek word for "hope" in the NT means "confident expectation", or "surety", I agree with your statement.

 

[FreeGrace]

I said this:
"Please provide support for this claim. Eph 1:13,14 says nothing about "obeying the gospel". The sealing with the Holy Spirit is for those having believed. The tense is aorist, which indicates a point in time action only."

Obeying the Gospel is the central theme of our faith, and is tied to the day of Judgement when Jesus Christ returns and Judges each person according to our deeds, in which we either come forth in the resurrection of life or the resurrection of condemnation.

Whether we inherit the kingdom of God or not.
Whether we enter the kingdom of God or not.

Again, this is not relevant to the OP in any way. And your answer does NOT provide support for your claim.

You will never be able to disconnect our inheritance of salvation and eternal life from the Day Jesus returns and Judges His people according to our deeds.

Nor have I ever even tried to "disconnect our inheritance from the day of judgment". What a silly charge.

The whole point of Paul in Eph 1:13,14, 4:30 and 2 Cor 1:22 and 5:5 is that those who have believed are GUARANTEED an inheritance for the day of redemption. Not a "maybe", not a "hope-so". But a GUARANTEE.