What was Paul teaching in 2 Thessalonians 2?

[Easterpup]

No sir.

• When Jesus returns, every eye will see Him, at His coming.

Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen. Revelation 1:7


“And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn. Zechariah 12:10



“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Matthew 24:29-31


gather together His elect = Resurrection and Rapture

• At His coming, He will put an end to all other kingdoms rule and authority.

For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming. Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power.
1 Corinthians 15:22-24

• At His coming He will destroy the antichrist.

And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 2 Thessalonians 2:8

• At His coming He will gather His people at the resurrection and rapture.

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 1 Thessalonians 4:15

• At His coming He will will come with the saints and armies from heaven.

Thus the Lord my God will come, and all the saints with You.
Zechariah 14:5


Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself. He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses.
Revelation 19:11-14






JLB

Let me show you that your first point is not correct.
In the following passage we see the Lord COMING with fire to render his anger and fury. The language is remarkable similar to 2 Thess 1 where the Lord is said to be coming with "flames of fire to render vengeance". 2 Thess 1 is a passage about our rapture when the Lord shall give us rest from our enemies and taking vengeance on them. This same thought is rendered inn Luke 17 where God's vengeance will fall the same day that Jesus is revealed from heaven. Being that it is a passage about the coming of the Lord at the rapture, read now the rest of the Isaiah 66 text that I provided. It says that he will send 'those that escape' UNTO those that have not heard of my fame NOR seen my GLORY. When the Olivet Discourse speaks of every eye seeing him, it is referring only to the those of the 12 tribes who were in Jerusalem at the time that the Lord comes in "flames of fire".

*[[Mat 24:30]] KJV* And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the TRIBES of the earth MOURN, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.sa 66:15-20 KJVLite For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire. For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many. They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD. For I know their works and their thoughts: it shall come, that I will gather all nations and tongues; and they shall come, and see my glory. And I will set a sign among them,

and I will send those that escape of them unto the nations, to Tarshish, Pul, and Lud, that draw the bow, to Tubal, and Javan, to the isles afar off, that HAVE NOT HEARD my FAME, NEITHER have SEEN my GLORY;

and they shall declare my glory among the Gentiles. And they shall bring all your brethren for an offering unto the LORD out of all nations upon horses, and in chariots, and in litters, and upon mules, and upon swift beasts, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, saith the LORD, as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the LORD.
2Th 1:7-10 KJVLite And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

AND WHY ARE THE ESCAPEES SENT INTO ALL OF THE EARTH AND THE ISLES OF THE SEA?
... 'to bring all your brethren... unto the Lord... to my holy mountain, Jerusalem!
This is the gathering of the elect from the 4 winds. Also found in Isa 11:

Verse list:
Isa 11:10-12 KJVLite And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious. And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea. And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.

As you should know, the endtimes context of Isa 66, and the travailing woman, is found in Rev 12. There we also see that Christ, the man child, is caught up (harpazoed) to heaven. The body of Christ is the church.

Be Blessed!
EP

 

[JLB]

When the Olivet Discourse speaks of every eye seeing him, it is referring only to the those of the 12 tribes who were in Jerusalem at the time that the Lord comes in "flames of fire".

All the nations, (Gentiles), that surround Jerusalem when He comes on the last day, with His saints from heaven to fight against them and destroy them will see Him, and even those who pierced Him.


That everyone, not just Jews.



Behold, the day of the Lord is coming,
And your spoil will be divided in your midst.
For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem;
The city shall be taken,
The houses rifled,
And the women ravished.
Half of the city shall go into captivity,
But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
Then the Lord will go forth
And fight against those nations,
As He fights in the day of battle.
And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives,
Which faces Jerusalem on the east.
And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two,
From east to west,
Making a very large valley;
Half of the mountain shall move toward the north
And half of it toward the south.
Then you shall flee through My mountain valley,
For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal.
Yes, you shall flee
As you fled from the earthquake
In the days of Uzziah king of Judah.
Thus the Lord my God will come,
And all the saints with You.
Zechariah 14:1-5




JLB

 

[Easterpup]

All the nations, (Gentiles), that surround Jerusalem when He comes on the last day, with His saints from heaven to fight against them and destroy them will see Him, and even those who pierced Him.


That everyone, not just Jews.



Behold, the day of the Lord is coming,
And your spoil will be divided in your midst.
For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem;
The city shall be taken,
The houses rifled,
And the women ravished.
Half of the city shall go into captivity,
But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
Then the Lord will go forth
And fight against those nations,
As He fights in the day of battle.
And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives,
Which faces Jerusalem on the east.
And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two,
From east to west,
Making a very large valley;
Half of the mountain shall move toward the north
And half of it toward the south.
Then you shall flee through My mountain valley,
For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal.
Yes, you shall flee
As you fled from the earthquake
In the days of Uzziah king of Judah.
Thus the Lord my God will come,
And all the saints with You.
Zechariah 14:1-5




JLB

*[[Zec 14:1]] KJV* Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

This verse shows that this takes place (just) before the day of the Lord comes. Zech 14 is one of many scriptures that gives details to events that happen BEFORE the Day of the Lord (DOTL) comes. The term DOTL is more appropo to say DAY OF LORD. It is the time in the future when the Lord shall rule over all of the earth. And this is what we find in v.9:

*[[Zec 14:9]] KJV* And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

And this is what we find in Rev 11, as well:

*[[Rev 11:15]] KJV* And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

This is what we found in Daniel 2 & 7 and numerous other places. E.g.,

*[[Hag 2:21,22]] KJV* Speak to Zerubbabel, governor of Judah, saying, I will shake the heavens and the earth;And I will overthrow the throne of kingdoms, and I will destroy the strength of the kingdoms of the heathen; and I will overthrow the chariots, and those that ride in them; and the horses and their riders shall come down, every one by the sword of his brother.

But let me give you a listing of things that will take place BEFORE that day comes. The book of Joel deals extensively with this matter.

Verse list:
Joe 2:1-2 KJVLite Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand; A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations.

Does that language ring a bell? One doesn't have to look far beyond this:

*[[Mat 24:21]] KJV* For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

OR THIS,

*[[Jer 30:7]] KJV* Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble; but he shall be saved out of it.

OR THIS,

*[[Eze 5:9]] KJV* And I will do in thee that which I have not done, and whereunto I will not do any more the like, because of all thine abominations.

OR THIS,

*[[Mal 4:1]] KJV* For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.

It is not the tribulation that precedes that day that comes suddenly and without warning, but it is ALL of the events of the Olivet Discourse that takes place BEFORE that day arrives.

Verse list:
Mat 24:33-36 KJVLite So likewise ye, when ye shall see ALL these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till ALL these things be fulfilled. Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

READ THE O.D. AGAIN. ALL, I repeat, ALL OF THESE THINGS will take place BEFORE that DAY arrives. But let me specifically tie the events of Revelation that takes place BEFORE the DOTL comes.

A. Verse list: Joel 2:4-11 The appearance of them is as the appearance of horses; and as horsemen, so shall they run. Like the noise of chariots on the tops of mountains shall they leap, like the noise of a flame of fire that devoureth the stubble, as a strong people set in battle array. Before their face the people shall be much pained: all faces shall gather blackness. They shall run like mighty men; they shall climb the wall like men of war; and they shall march every one on his ways, and they shall not break their ranks: Neither shall one thrust another; they shall walk every one in his path: and when they fall upon the sword, they shall not be wounded. They shall run to and fro in the city; they shall run upon the wall, they shall climb up upon the houses; they shall enter in at the windows like a thief. The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining: And the LORD shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp is very great: for he is strong that executeth his word: for the day of the LORD is great and very terrible; and who can abide it?
B. Verse list: Joel 2:30-32 And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke. The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come. And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call..
C. Mal 4:5. Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:

What do we find in those verses?
1. Heavenly fire,
2. Heavenly blood,
3. Pillars of smoke,
4a. Sun turns dark,
4b.. Moon into blood,
5. Appearance of horses & horsemen,
6. Seeking death in futility,
7. Shaking of the heavens & earth,
8. The coming of Elijah.
We see the shaking of the heavens and earth with the opening of the 6th seal when the world recognizes that the Day of his wrath "is come". As I have already pointed out, this is written in the aorist tense, where the time of action is NOT specified. But the world recognizes this to mean that the day of his wrath is near..."is come".

The rest of these things that happen BEFORE that day are found in the trumpets until things culminate with the 7th trumpet announcing the wrath of God AND the Kingdom of God have come(aorist participle). Just for unmistakable clarity:

Verse list:
Rev 8:7 KJVLite The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.
Rev 8:8 KJVLite And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood;
Rev 8:10 KJVLite And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters;
Rev 8:12 KJVLite And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise.
Rev 9:1-2 KJVLite And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit. And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
Rev 9:6 KJVLite And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.
Rev 9:7 KJVLite And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men.
Rev 9:16 KJVLite And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them.

AND FINALLY,

Verse list:
Rev 11:15-18 KJVLite And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Be Blessed,
EP

 

[Easterpup]

*[[Zec 14:1]] KJV* Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

This verse shows that this takes place (just) before the day of the Lord comes. Zech 14 is one of many scriptures that gives details to events that happen BEFORE the Day of the Lord (DOTL) comes. The term DOTL is more appropo to say DAY OF LORD. It is the time in the future when the Lord shall rule over all of the earth. And this is what we find in v.9:

*[[Zec 14:9]] KJV* And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

And this is what we find in Rev 11, as well:

*[[Rev 11:15]] KJV* And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

This is what we found in Daniel 2 & 7 and numerous other places. E.g.,

*[[Hag 2:21,22]] KJV* Speak to Zerubbabel, governor of Judah, saying, I will shake the heavens and the earth;And I will overthrow the throne of kingdoms, and I will destroy the strength of the kingdoms of the heathen; and I will overthrow the chariots, and those that ride in them; and the horses and their riders shall come down, every one by the sword of his brother.

But let me give you a listing of things that will take place BEFORE that day comes. The book of Joel deals extensively with this matter.

Verse list:
Joe 2:1-2 KJVLite Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand; A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations.

Does that language ring a bell? One doesn't have to look far beyond this:

*[[Mat 24:21]] KJV* For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

OR THIS,

*[[Jer 30:7]] KJV* Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble; but he shall be saved out of it.

OR THIS,

*[[Eze 5:9]] KJV* And I will do in thee that which I have not done, and whereunto I will not do any more the like, because of all thine abominations.

OR THIS,

*[[Mal 4:1]] KJV* For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.

It is not the tribulation that precedes that day that comes suddenly and without warning, but it is ALL of the events of the Olivet Discourse that takes place BEFORE that day arrives.

Verse list:
Mat 24:33-36 KJVLite So likewise ye, when ye shall see ALL these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till ALL these things be fulfilled. Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

READ THE O.D. AGAIN. ALL, I repeat, ALL OF THESE THINGS will take place BEFORE that DAY arrives. But let me specifically tie the events of Revelation that takes place BEFORE the DOTL comes.

A. Verse list: Joel 2:4-11 The appearance of them is as the appearance of horses; and as horsemen, so shall they run. Like the noise of chariots on the tops of mountains shall they leap, like the noise of a flame of fire that devoureth the stubble, as a strong people set in battle array. Before their face the people shall be much pained: all faces shall gather blackness. They shall run like mighty men; they shall climb the wall like men of war; and they shall march every one on his ways, and they shall not break their ranks: Neither shall one thrust another; they shall walk every one in his path: and when they fall upon the sword, they shall not be wounded. They shall run to and fro in the city; they shall run upon the wall, they shall climb up upon the houses; they shall enter in at the windows like a thief. The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining: And the LORD shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp is very great: for he is strong that executeth his word: for the day of the LORD is great and very terrible; and who can abide it?
B. Verse list: Joel 2:30-32 And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke. The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come. And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call..
C. Mal 4:5. Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:

What do we find in those verses?
1. Heavenly fire,
2. Heavenly blood,
3. Pillars of smoke,
4a. Sun turns dark,
4b.. Moon into blood,
5. Appearance of horses & horsemen,
6. Seeking death in futility,
7. Shaking of the heavens & earth,
8. The coming of Elijah.
We see the shaking of the heavens and earth with the opening of the 6th seal when the world recognizes that the Day of his wrath "is come". As I have already pointed out, this is written in the aorist tense, where the time of action is NOT specified. But the world recognizes this to mean that the day of his wrath is near..."is come".

The rest of these things that happen BEFORE that day are found in the trumpets until things culminate with the 7th trumpet announcing the wrath of God AND the Kingdom of God have come(aorist participle). Just for unmistakable clarity:

Verse list:
Rev 8:7 KJVLite The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.
Rev 8:8 KJVLite And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood;
Rev 8:10 KJVLite And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters;
Rev 8:12 KJVLite And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise.
Rev 9:1-2 KJVLite And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit. And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
Rev 9:6 KJVLite And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.
Rev 9:7 KJVLite And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men.
Rev 9:16 KJVLite And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them.

AND FINALLY,

Verse list:
Rev 11:15-18 KJVLite And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Be Blessed,
EP

I forgot about the coming of Elijah to restore all things.

Verse list:
Rev 11:3-7 KJVLite And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth. And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed. These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will. And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

Be Blessed,
EP

 

[JLB]

This verse shows that this takes place (just) before the day of the Lord comes. Zech 14 is one of many scriptures that gives details to events that happen BEFORE the Day of the Lord (DOTL) comes. The term DOTL is more appropo to say DAY OF LORD. It is the time in the future when the Lord shall rule over all of the earth. And this is what we find in v.9:

Zechariah 14 illustrates what happen on the Day of the Lord.




JLB

 

[Easterpup]

Zechariah 14 illustrates what happen on the Day of the Lord.




JLB

It's before that day. Read my post on the 2 witnesses thread.
Verse list:
Zec 14:1 KJVLite Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
Verse list:
Joe 2:31-32 KJVLite The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come. And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call. For, behold, in those days, and in that time, when I shall bring again the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem, I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land.

Be Blessed,
EP

 

[JLB]

It's before that day. Read my post on the 2 witnesses thread.
Verse list:
Zec 14:1 KJVLite Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
Verse list:
Joe 2:31-32 KJVLite The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come. And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call. For, behold, in those days, and in that time, when I shall bring again the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem, I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land.

Be Blessed,
EP

You do understand that Zechariah 14 is foretelling the future about what will happen on the Day of the Lord?



JLB

 

[Easterpup]

You do understand that Zechariah 14 is foretelling the future about what will happen on the Day of the Lord?



JLB

As long as you understand that the DOTL comes when the 7th trumpet sounds and it is also the day that the kingdom of God comes and all of the events of the Olivet Discourse happens BEFORE that day according to Luke 21:31. It is also the time in which God gives rewards to the saints and prophets (Rev 11:18) and that includes Abraham, Isaac and Jacob sitting down in the kingdom of God (Luke 13v28).
Jesus will stand upon the mount of olives, as part of those things that Joel said would take place before the DOTL comes and the shout of his voice will shake the heavens and the earth. Heb 12:26 says that it is that shout of the voice of the Lord that will bring about the kingdom of God that cannot be shaken or moved.

Verse list:
Heb 12:26-28 KJVLite Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven. And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain. Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:
Joe 2:11 KJVLite And the LORD shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp is very great: for he is strong that executeth his word: for the day of the LORD is great and very terrible; and who can abide it?
Joe 3:16 KJVLite The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel.
Amo 1:2 KJVLite And he said, The LORD will roar from Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the habitations of the shepherds shall mourn, and the top of Carmel shall wither.
Hag 2:21-23 KJVLite Speak to Zerubbabel, governor of Judah, saying, I will shake the heavens and the earth; And I will overthrow the throne of kingdoms, and I will destroy the strength of the kingdoms of the heathen; and I will overthrow the chariots, and those that ride in them; and the horses and their riders shall come down, every one by the sword of his brother. In that day, saith the LORD of hosts, will I take thee, O Zerubbabel, my servant, the son of Shealtiel, saith the LORD, and will make thee as a signet: for I have chosen thee, saith the LORD of hosts.
Jer 25:29-33 KJVLite For, lo, I begin to bring evil on the city which is called by my name, and should ye be utterly unpunished? Ye shall not be unpunished: for I will call for a sword upon all the inhabitants of the earth, saith the LORD of hosts. Therefore prophesy thou against them all these words, and say unto them, The LORD shall roar from on high, and utter his voice from his holy habitation; he shall mightily roar upon his habitation; he shall give a shout, as they that tread the grapes, against all the inhabitants of the earth. A noise shall come even to the ends of the earth; for the LORD hath a controversy with the nations, he will plead with all flesh; he will give them that are wicked to the sword, saith the LORD. Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Behold, evil shall go forth from nation to nation, and a great whirlwind shall be raised up from the coasts of the earth. And the slain of the LORD shall be at that day from one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth: they shall not be lamented, neither gathered, nor buried; they shall be dung upon the ground.

That time of great tribulation that precedes the DOTL, will begin when God's wrath is poured upon his people and his holy habitation, Jerusalem.

Verse list:
Luk 21:22-31 KJVLite For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh. And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees; When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand. So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.

Repeating that last verse:
When you see these things come to pass,
KNOW YE THAT THE KINGDOM OF GOD IS NIGH AT HAND.

Be Blessed,
EP

 

[JLB]

As long as you understand that the DOTL comes when the 7th trumpet sounds and it is also the day that the kingdom of God comes and all of the events of the Olivet Discourse happens BEFORE that day according to Luke 21:31.

The Olivet Discourse is Jesus teaching His disciples from Zechariah 14, the Day of the Lord.


The Day when He returns and puts an end to all rule and authority.




JLB

 

[Easterpup]

The Olivet Discourse is Jesus teaching His disciples from Zechariah 14, the Day of the Lord.


The Day when He returns and puts an end to all rule and authority.




JLB

The day of Christ (2 Thess 2) will not be present/ enistemi/ impending/ imminent until the parousia and gathering together takes place and the man of sin is revealed.

G1764
Original: ἐνίστημι

Transliteration: enistēmi

Phonetic: en-is'-tay-mee

Thayer Definition:

to place in or among, to put in
to be upon, impend, threaten
close at hand
present
Origin: from G1722 and G2476

TDNT entry: 11:03,2

Part(s) of speech: Verb

Strong's Definition: From G1722 and G2476; to place on hand, that is, (reflexively) impend, (participle) be instant: - come, be at hand, present.

Be Blessed.
EP

 

[JLB]

The day of Christ (2 Thess 2) will not be present/ enistemi/ impending/ imminent until the parousia and gathering together takes place and the man of sin is revealed.

The Day of Christ, is the Day of the Lord, the Parousia, coming of the Lord.

The Day He returns and gathers His Church at the resurrection/rapture, and destroys the wicked, putting an end to all rule and authority.




JLB

 

[Easterpup]

The Day of Christ, is the Day of the Lord, the Parousia, coming of the Lord.

The Day He returns and gathers His Church at the resurrection/rapture, and destroys the wicked, putting an end to all rule and authority.




JLB

Sorry but that doesn't work for what Paul said.
*[[2Th 2:2]] KJV* That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is "at hand".

The word used for "at hand" is enistemi, which I have already given its definition. The tense in which it is used is the perfect indicative. That means that the action of the verb has happened in the past and continues into the present. It does not mean undefined action in the sense of being imminent as the case would be for the aorist tense. Nor does it mean that it refers to simple, non -continuous action of an aorist participle. You must realize that Paul is telling them that the Day of Christ IS NOT enistemi, meaning an ongoing situation and is not referring to a simple event, such as the instantaneous event of the parousia (whenever that even might occur). He is saying, "don't let anyone convince that you are living in times of his imminent coming." Those days (of imminency) will not come until the man of sin is revealed first. Paul makes a distinction between the parousia and the advent. This in itself does not rule out the idea found in post trib theology. But the Olivet Discourse shows a coming of Christ before the kingdom of God comes. This means that it has to be at least 42 months before Armageddon.
Be Blessed
EP

 

[JLB]

Sorry but that doesn't work for what Paul said.
*[[2Th 2:2]] KJV* That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is "at hand".

The word used for "at hand" is enistemi, which I have already given its definition. The tense in which it is used is the perfect indicative. That means that the action of the verb has happened in the past and continues into the present.

The meaning of 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8 doesn’t change because you my perceive the meaning of a verb tense differently that someone else.



The day of Christ is the day of the Lord, and occurs at the coming of the Lord.

On that day, three major things occur.

The Resurrection
The Rapture
The destruction of the antichrist and all the wicked.



That day will not come until the falling comes first and the man of sin is revealed.


Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3




JLB

 

[JLB]

Those days (of imminency) will not come until the man of sin is revealed first.

I agree



JLB