Then why don't we all go to the same church?You opened a big can of worms with that statement.
The Church is Jewish.
What we define as Jewish, may differ, but make no mistake, you and must have The Jew, dwelling within us, to be Christian.
For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God.
It’s interesting to note, that Abraham is the father of the Jews, but he himself was a Gentile.
When do you believe THIS church began?
Or do you believe a new church was not established after Jesus ascended?
Then why don't we all go to the same church?
Right...I guess I don’t know what you mean by “the church”.
I thought I did, but maybe I don’t.
Church = The Holy nation of God, the Congregation of Jesus Christ, the called out ones; The Israel of God
church = a building where people go to gather and worship the Lord, and teach and preach.
LOLThere is no such concept in the Bible as “going to church”.
That has become a man made concept.
We are the Church.
Ever see Jesus say, hey everybody, it’s Sunday morning, come and follow Me to church.
People functioned as the Church and identified as family, in which they met in homes, or caves or wherever.
The Lord see’s one Church in each city.
Not a bunch of fractured denominations.
Hi wondering, I don't know your name, but, how are you all doing ? I was hearing you asking, Then why don't we all go to the same church? well for number 1, I thought that when I did not know any better, that I choose to enjoy whatever I was familiar with in what that Pastor had believed or taught, until I saw it in a different out-look, this is when I was younger going to church.Then why don't we all go to the same church?
There was, in fact, only one church after Jesus' ascension.
But that changed after 70 AD when Jerusalem was destroyed.
The Christian Jews were no longer accepted by the Jews and they were forced to leave their brethren and begin their own church.
I have no scripture for this but it is history.
Hi W & D....Hi wondering, I don't know your name, but, how are you all doing ? I was hearing you asking, Then why don't we all go to the same church? well for number 1, I thought that when I did not know any better, that I choose to enjoy whatever I was familiar with in what that Pastor had believed or taught, until I saw it in a different out-look, this is when I was younger going to church.
But as I learned much later of the scriptures and by my asking the Lord to show me what this or that really meant in understanding exactly how to live right, I guess I had to follow his steps as He have left us an example.
Love always, Walter and Deborah
I agree, it started in Acts. Actually, I could prolly make a decent case for it starting in the Garden of Gethsemane because He essentially sent them out on their own from there...but yes, Acts was the Church going on it's own for the first time after Jesus ascended.I sometimes post the Early Church Fathers to show what the early Christians believed about our faith.
I'm told at times that they have no importance and their views of no value but only the bible has value.
The letters already existed and the gospel was known.
So my question would be:
When do YOU believe the church began?
I believe it began in Acts.
Ed, I wonder what you mean by the Garden of Gethsemane...the night before the passion? That would be interesting to hear,,,I never have before.I agree, it started in Acts. Actually, I could prolly make a decent case for it starting in the Garden of Gethsemane because He essentially sent them out on their own from there...but yes, Acts was the Church going on it's own for the first time after Jesus ascended.
I've never heard this before.
But, yes, of course Ecclesia means the called out ones.
When speaking of the church, it's mostly understood to be the church of Christ...the institutional church that grew after Jesus' ascension.
When would YOU say that began?
I waiver between the Last Supper and the Acts in chapter 2 when the Disciples receive the power of the Holy Spirit and begin to preach.
Well it was all about to come down and that was the last time before the crucifixion that they were all together. And Jesus knew it was coming and time was at hand. So they prolly talked more than was recorded. And Jesus asked them to pray and watch with him, and it's like they couldn't or whatever.Ed, I wonder what you mean by the Garden of Gethsemane...the night before the passion? That would be interesting to hear,,,I never have before.
The Apostles were a mess...fearful and hiding. Peter even denied knowing Jesus out of fear.
Is this when you mean?
I guess defining what the Church is and what it means from the scriptures would be a good place to start.wondering,
D A Carson has written an article on this issue in which he states:
'So what do the two camps—those who think the church began at Pentecost, and those who think the church stretches back in time and ultimately includes all of God’s elect—make of such exegetical phenomena? Transparently, different interpretive choices are tied up with each position' (When Did the Church Begin?)
yeah!Hi W & D....
all is OK.
I must admit that it's difficult for me to trust any pastor.
Since I grew up in the Catholic church, I had to make sure about their doctrine (after I was saved) and then I had to look for a church. So I tend to check everything out with my understanding of God's nature and what He expects from us.
Some say God expects nothing from us...but I don't see this in the N.T. So I agree with you that we have to "live right"...at least to the best of our ability with the help of the Holy Spirit.
I like John 15.....
We cannot do anything without HIM.
HE is the vine...we are the branches that receive food from the vine.
JLB,I guess defining what the Church is and what it means from the scriptures would be a good place to start.
When do you believe the Church began?
Thanks for your response.JLB,
Don Carson did that from the Scriptures. Didn't you read the content of the link? Part of what he wrote was:
When Jesus declares, in a thoroughly Jewish context, that he will build his church (ἐκκλησία, Matt 16:18), what he has in mind, according to this Gospel, includes Gentiles too (28:18–20). His instructions on how to exercise church [ἐκκλησία] discipline (18:15–20) show how he is willing to blur distinctions we tend to make: the local church (which must be in view in ch. 18) is the outcropping of the entire church (ch. 16), and clearly includes both Jews and Gentiles. They constitute Messiah’s assembly (When Did the Church Begin?)
There are too many issues for me to give a simplistic answer.
What I believe about when the church began is subjective and is not based on biblical statements.
However, my conclusion is that while Jesus was on earth he gave indicators of the start of the church that includes both Jews and Gentiles. The evidence points to an 'official' launching of the church in Acts 2:17-21.
“I will build” is actually rendered as one word in the original and is unique in its meaning.Would anyone agree that if Jesus said He would build something - future tense -
then what was to be built did not yet exist at the moment He said that?