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Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
Who nailed Him ?
- Thread starter twinc
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thightower
Member
It was an Roman who drove the nails. It was the chief preist who put him in that position, or technically the sins of the world.
B
BornAgain
Guest
The Jews who hated Jesus had to send him to Pontius Pilate, the Roman Prefect of Judea (26 to 36 A.D.), to have the death sentence carried out. The Romans ultimately made sure the sentence would be carried out completely by having guards around Jesus' cross and those of the others condemned: So when the centurion and those with him, who were guarding Jesus, saw the earthquake and the things that had happened, they feared greatly, saying, 'Truly this was the Son of God! (Matthew 27:54) Other than being Roman soldiers, there is no record of the names of those who nailed Jesus to the stake. As far as what happened to these people after Jesus' death there is also no historical record. Yes, Jesus did forgive His murderers.
I think Peter (a Jew) summed it up from his perspective in Acts and he was there. It is of importance however to note Jesus (the One who Judges ) stated on the cross "Father forgive them for they know not what they do" So Jesus who taught us to love our enemies by word and deed didn't hold that sin against Israel. In fact as Peter also stated in Acts in was Gods Will for Jesus to go to the cross. Its kind of like the story of Joseph who God allowed to be sold out by his brothers (the evil intent wasn't from God) to save lives. In that story forgiveness was also given for that sin to Joseph's brothers as it was God's set purpose.
Peter addresses the crowd. (Jews)
22 “Men of Israel, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know. 23 This man was handed over to you by God’s set purpose and foreknowledge; and you, with the help of wicked men,[d] put him to death by nailing him to the cross. 24 But God raised him from the dead, freeing him from the agony of death, because it was impossible for death to keep its hold on him. 25 David said about him:
Peter addresses the crowd. (Jews)
22 “Men of Israel, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know. 23 This man was handed over to you by God’s set purpose and foreknowledge; and you, with the help of wicked men,[d] put him to death by nailing him to the cross. 24 But God raised him from the dead, freeing him from the agony of death, because it was impossible for death to keep its hold on him. 25 David said about him:
Jesus forgave the Romans, not the Jews. The Romans were just a tool of the Jews. 70AD was judgement, not forgiveness.
Where is that stated that Jesus forgave either the Romans, or the Jews?
smaller
Member
Acts 2:23
Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
Depends on Who one wants to look at.
It is unlikely any of the participants really had much say so in the matters.
1 Cor. 2:
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
I'd hardly call a Roman nail pounder a prince of this world nor is it logical to blame blinded Jews.
Everyone played their exact role by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God. That is in fact how Jesus called the shots before they ever took place. All of these things were written, and the scripture could NOT be changed or broken.
John 10:35
If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
s
Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
Depends on Who one wants to look at.
It is unlikely any of the participants really had much say so in the matters.
1 Cor. 2:
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
I'd hardly call a Roman nail pounder a prince of this world nor is it logical to blame blinded Jews.
Everyone played their exact role by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God. That is in fact how Jesus called the shots before they ever took place. All of these things were written, and the scripture could NOT be changed or broken.
John 10:35
If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
s
It doesn't. Jesus forgave all who were responsible for that Act. My take in reading the NT was that Rome was indifferent with Jesus it was the Jewish leadership who wanted to take Jesus out and they applied political pressure on Rome's Governor to carry out their will in the matter. They arrested Jesus. They plotted. They tried to trick and trap Jesus repeatedly.
So as Peter stated, They (High Priest and his allies) with the help of wicked men put Jesus down.
If the crowd wasn't responsible for what happened then why do some state they were Judged in (AD70) ? (I don't hold to that teaching.) I very much see Jesus on the cross forgiving for that Act and He is the one who Judges.
History shows a conflict in AD70 between Rome and those that didn't believe Jesus was the Christ and in that they were cut off from the true vine and their enemies (Not God) were stronger then them. It is also of note that Rome was occupying Israel prior to Jesus coming down to us. As of man of faith I see that as God allowed that to take place because of disobedience for how could Rome get through the God of Israel unless allowed?
So as Paul wrote the governing authorities don't carry a big stick for nothing so obey them both for your safety and so others might note your behavior bringing glory to God. Insurrection wasn't a good cause and certainly not from above in the case of AD70. God wasn't with them and they lost. (Very misguided leadership that costs lives.)
Randy
Jews, not just "jewish leadership", wanted to take Jesus out. Any attempt to limit the blame to just leaders is less than honest and not what the Bible teaches.
So, as Peter stated, They (the Jews)....
"Men of Israel... you nailed [Jesus] to a cross by the hands of godless men and put Him to death." Why do you change "Jews" to "Jewish leaders"?
If you don't think 70AD was judgement, you must think the god Titus is greater than the God of Abraham.
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God did not send Jesus to Israel to punish them. Jesus came to save not condemn.
After the life of the body we face judgment. How Jesus responds to us is our choices made. (Welcome my friend or I don't know you)
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him
As the time approached for him to be taken up to heaven, Jesus resolutely set out for Jerusalem. 52 And he sent messengers on ahead, who went into a Samaritan village to get things ready for him; 53 but the people there did not welcome him, because he was heading for Jerusalem. 54 When the disciples James and John saw this, they asked, “Lord, do you want us to call fire down from heaven to destroy them[c]?†55 But Jesus turned and rebuked them, 56 and[d] they went to another village.
[d] Luke 9:56 Some manuscripts them. And he said, “You do not know what kind of spirit you are of, for the Son of Man did not come to destroy men’s lives, but to save them.â€
After the life of the body we face judgment. How Jesus responds to us is our choices made. (Welcome my friend or I don't know you)
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him
As the time approached for him to be taken up to heaven, Jesus resolutely set out for Jerusalem. 52 And he sent messengers on ahead, who went into a Samaritan village to get things ready for him; 53 but the people there did not welcome him, because he was heading for Jerusalem. 54 When the disciples James and John saw this, they asked, “Lord, do you want us to call fire down from heaven to destroy them[c]?†55 But Jesus turned and rebuked them, 56 and[d] they went to another village.
[d] Luke 9:56 Some manuscripts them. And he said, “You do not know what kind of spirit you are of, for the Son of Man did not come to destroy men’s lives, but to save them.â€
[sarcasm]Well, that's good news. No man, nor Mankind ,need never worry about judgement from God ever again! [/sarcasm]
What?
You argue God destroyed Israel in AD70. I state, as written, Jesus came to save not destroy but also include, as written, a judgment AFTER the life of the body.
God did not provide the "Lamb" for punishment. There is a day of judgment for the WHOLE world but that day is still in the future.
Randy
What are you basing your assumption on that Jesus forgave them?
No assumption was made as Jesus clearly stated it on the cross. The only assumption was that it only applied to Romans which wasn't made by me.
Randy
Ah, I thought so. Jesus said, "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do." This was a plea to the Father to forgive them, but not Jesus actually forgiving them. Also, it does not, necessarily, mean that God the Father forgave them either. They were still required to repent and ask for forgiveness for it to be extended.
I also stated Jesus is the one who judges. (Judge of the living and the dead) All come before Him.
I didn't think one would make a statement that the Father would refuse the Son who was given authority to forgive sin.
Randy
I did not imply that Jesus did not have the power or authority to judge or forgive, I am merely pointing out that Jesus was pleading for God the Father to forgive them, however, those who are to be forgiven must first repent of their sin then ask for forgiveness before it is granted. Every example in the bible pertaining to forgiveness has these elements.
smaller
Member
Matthew 6:15
But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
Of course, which is why you should always be prepared to forgive should anyone who trespasses against you repents and asks for forgiveness. The concept here is that the Father will not forgive you if you refuse to forgive others should they ask for it.