- Colorado, USA
- Aug 16, 2015
Strengthening families through biblical principles.
Focus on the Family addresses the use of biblical principles in parenting and marriage to strengthen the family.
In summary, i believe people experience the sensation and real memories from past lives. But as I've said earlier, i believe it is memories of our ancestors bound within the fabric of our DNA.
The reality is this. If you want to assume on Hades, don't look toward the Jews. Instead, look back to Egypt and don't think that because the Jews understood shoel before hades that hades comes from the jews. First, shoel is simply the grave and has very little in common with hades. Again, do some homework and learn about Ben Hinnom and you will see the parralel between that and hades.
First, Orthodox Jews believe in reincarnation.
Rabbi Louis Jacobs said:Otherwise the doctrine has had its day, and is believed in by very few modern Jews, although hardly any Orthodox Jew today will positively denounce the doctrine.
I am not your enemy.
Now, let's set the record straight from an academic perspective.
Shoel and Gehenna are rooted in Jewish thought and language.
Shoel is simply the grave and holds little spiritual value.
Gehenna (Ben Hinnom) on the other hand has history in Jewish culture which started when Solomon offered his children to both Molech and Chemosh by fire. Gehenna is a physical place that is identified and im sure you can go walk on its soil today if you had the gumption to do so. But it's much more than a physical place because it carries a spiritual reality.
Meanwhile, in Greece Zeus is alive and well and his Brother Hades is a constant threat to Zeus as are a multitude of other Gods. Hades is cast down and makes his abode in the underground. In Jesus day, the gates of Hades which leads to the underworld as purported in many Greek myths, such as the time Hercules snuck in, actually was understood to be located in caesarea philippi.
Of course, hades is simply Greek mythology and the gates of hades is asserted without any physical historical real events unlike Gehenna which has historical events that concrete its existence.
These are facts and as far as Gehenna and Solomon, its all accounted for within the biblical texts. If you need help finding it, I'll pull something together this weekend.
To say that Shoel was mentioned before Hades doesn't really make much since to me because both words come from opposite cultures. Not only that, but Shoel and Hades have very little to do with one another. In actuality, Hades and Gehenna have much more theological in common which accounts for Jesus using Greek mythology in his words.
Yes, Jesus speaks of Hades and Gehenna aptly translated into the Norse word Hell which comes from Norse mythology. Thor has always been my favorite... What a disappointment to see him drunk and fat in End Game lol!
Let's ponder this.
Why does Jesus use Greek mythology in speaking about Hades? Why doesn't he refute their mythology as false?
I'm really curious if you will address my question. After all, there is much evidence of Greek gods through out the land when Jesus was walking about teaching the multitudes. Certainly, when he used the word Hades, they thought of the abode of Zeus brother. To think any other way would be to turn a blind eye to history and the abundance of historical evidence that supports my claim.
Do I have this right? You DO believe in 'past lives' of people living today?
Thanks for the article, it was very insightful.
Good stuff OzSB,
The term 'Hades' was used by the Jews in about the third century BC to translate Hebrew, 'Sheol', into Greek. Translators of the Septuagint (LXX) were 70 Jews. Therefore, Sheol (OT Hebrew) and Hades (Intertestamental Greek) are synonymous terms.
What did they mean? Hades in the Bible means 'the underworld as the place of the dead ... in the depths, contrasted with heaven' (BAG Lexicon 1957:16) and not the final destination of the wicked, which is Gehenna.
In the OT, Sheol/Hades is translated as 'hell' in the KJV, based on the Textus Receptus Greek text.
While the NT Hades is taken from Greek mythology, where it means 'the god of the lower regions', it does not mean that in the NT or OT.
Sheol appears 65 times in the Hebrew OT where the KJV translates it 31 times as 'hell', 'the grave' 31 times, 'the pit' 3 times. The ESV transliterates Sheol, without translating it. The ESV does the same with Hades, a transliteration.
By the time of the Intertestamental period (between both testaments), Hades had 2 compartments, one for the believers and the other for unbelievers - as demonstrated by the story of the rich man and Lazarus (Luke 16).
amen and the following is the reason people get confused about spiritual thingsSatan is an expert at planting false ideas in people's minds. No surprises there. Christians need to be constantly on guard since the mind is the battlefield.
That would apply only if I use Scripture exclusively as a basis for my faith. I do not. Yes, that does make me a little different from other members here.
i think it was someone else - not edward - i thought it was JohnDB or WIP or StoveBolts who said they had experienced memories of what seemed like previous livesTrying to find the post that I thought was from you and now can't find the post at all from anyone. Sorry. My bad
The idea of reincarnation is different because to this very day, there are people who tap into these 'past lives' and are able to bring verifiable detail that they should have no knowledge about, or, like the person I knew, was able to speak another language....
For somebody who has experienced the memories of a past life, their perceived truth is that they have lived past lives. Please understand that their faith in the matter is based on their own experience as well as the testimony of others.
So, how do we address this? Do we invalidate ones perceived truth? Or, do we speak truth in love with understanding that what the other experienced was / is very real to them.
Good stuff Oz
If we look at a modern doctrinal view of hell, we can see that our view is more in alignment with Norse mythology from which our translation derives as opposed to Greek mythology whence Hades derived. Today, our understanding of hell is removed from Norse mythology because Norse mythology does not inundate our culture as it did when the Bible was being translated. However, modern thinking is more in alignment with Norse mythology than Greek mythology or the history of Ben Hinnom.
We know that the Bible ( Septuagint) is a translation from Hebrew to Greek because, at the time, many Jews spoke Greek and not their native tongue. I'm sure you are well aware that the Septuagint was not welcomed in Orthodox circles. It reminds me of the KLV only versus the wicked NIV and "Message" Bible which followed.
So, while the Septuagint used the word Hades, it used it much in the same way the germans used hell. In other words, they took the closest word that they thought represented the idea the text was trying to convey.
When we look at the culture, there were Greek Patron gods in every city and altars were set up to receive offerings to Zeus and other gods as well prior to and during the time of Jesus. Paul writes about this as does Luke in Acts. So, you cannot detach the mythology from the word hades any more than you can detach the mythology of hell from the europeans at the time of translation.
I cannot find anything in the NT that supports what you've stated here. So the source of these visions of 'past lives' cannot be the Almighty God. It is from another source.
That makes it very dangerous activity for a believer, in my view.
If you'd like me to leave, I will.
I believe it's a forum guideline to address issues, not people.
ill take a loom in the morning
Apointed to die once. If reincarnation is true then one dies many times.
We have to judge everything through scripture and if hebrews 9:27 says we die once not many times, then there is no reincarnation.
Also the idea behind reincarnation is that one does better in the next life, earning a better reincarnation untill perfection is reached.
Christianity teaches we do not earn or deserve salvation.
We accept it as a gift.
Here you teach the doctrine of pre-existence or premortal existence that
'refers to the belief that each individual human soul existed before mortal conception, and at some point before birth enters or is placed into the body. Concepts of pre-existence can encompass either the belief that the soul came into existence at some time prior to conception or the belief that the soul is eternal. Alternative positions are traducianism and creationism, which both hold that the individual human soul does not come into existence until conception' (Wikipedia, Pre-existence).
Origen taught it, quoting Romans 9:11-14 and Jeremiah 1:5 to support his view in Origen. De Principiis. I.VII.4.
Ancient Greek thought and Islam affirm pre-existence, but it is generally denied in Christianity. It is a fundamental teaching of Mormonism. See Joseph Smith's King Follett discourse.
Hinduism teaches it, 'Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you, nor all these kings; nor in the future shall any of us cease to be': Chapter 2 Verse 12 Bhagavad-gītā As It Is.
Pre-existence of the sould was condemned as heresy at the Second Council of Constantinople in AD 553.
You are way to smart for me, i don't know about anything you just said above. i only know what God told me and what Scriptures teach. Didn't God know Jeremiah before He was even in the womb?
Jer 1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.
The above verse if to be believed teaches that Jeremiah was KNOWN, existed, prior to ever being formed in the womb as Jeremiah.
People, please listen to the Truth. Before the Earth was ever created, YOU existed. NOT you that is flesh, but the spirit that is in YOU.
The word of the Lord came to me:
5 I chose you before I formed you in the womb;
I set you apart before you were born.
I appointed you a prophet to the nations (Jer 1:4-5 HCSB)