Why do we accept or reject Christ Jesus?

[Edward]

I don't know if standing like a beggar is what I had in mind...but some might think so. Some people use John 6:44 in this beggar fashion when they say....."No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day.
Some act as if the drawing is like whooing a person...here kitty kitty style.

As to "considered a surrendering of the will to the Will of God" not being like a post-modern shopper in my OP I said, "Choosing Jesus isn't like choosing a car". Im simply asking why an individual would or would not surrender their will to the will of God. What is that. decision based upon. The car was only use as an example of a thought process to make a decision. What is the thought process to make a decision for christ? Can you help fill in the blank?

Oh it can't be that hard to fill in the blank, the world has many temptations that people like to do. Some like stealing "free" money, some like lustful satisfaction with women (or men nowadays), some choose to be chronic inebriates through various means, still others look to money to be their God...people like different things.

When one gets introduced to Christianity and Jesus is accepted as Lord of your life, then a surrendering of the will and life is set before them and they realize that they're going to have to give up the lusts of the flesh and kill that old man...Most people will reckon themselves as good people because they don't go around robbing and murdering, but a romp with his neighbors wife is set up for this weekend...can I wait until monday? Some find it hard to give it all up. It's easy to justify many things as not so bad...what's wrong with getting drunk on the weekend at home? I'll go to work monday, no sweat. Nobody hurt, no adultery no stealing or lying. That line in the bible about drunkards isn't me, that's talking about alcoholics...The sin nature makes man search for loopholes, it's in the nature of sin. So they have a tendancy to only surrender 99%, or 75% of their life to the Lord so they can hold onto their "harmless" pursuits.

That's a choice and people make it everyday. I hear them defend it with stuff like, nah, I don't have to be a Jesus freak about it, but I believe in God and I'm saved, I can't understand the bible, but when Jesus comes then everything's going to be allright and we'll all be changed and better...like all they have to do is to believe, they don't have to read the Word, pray, help the poor or anything. And they continue to live their life...worldly. The old man is not dead to them. Scripture is replete with warnings about keeping the commandments, don't be lukewarm, study to show thyself approved, do no sin in secret and all sorts of stuff.

Revelation 3:16
Matthew 7:21-23
Matthew 25:10-12
Revelation 22:19

There is more, these are just a few off the top of my head. But the point is, that scripture says many people will be denied on the day of the Lord. No one ever wants to believe that it could be them. Oh I have faith...but many will be denied, and there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Be careful Brothers and Sisters, little white lies are as guilty as a serial murderer to God. Jesus will change us one day, but He does charge us to be ye holy, even as I am holy...this does mean now Brothers and Sisters, on earth as it is in heaven.

Good idea for a thread.

 

[DavidC]

"God revealed hiself to the person and they knew that they knew"

I think there is a lot of truth to that.
I see Romans 3:11 There is no one who understands; no one who seeks God....as key. If God doesn't reveal himself to you, you won't get saved.

Isn't Chrisitianity the only religion in the world where God seeks us? And the only true God. Pretty sure my dad told me that before.

Yet, we still have to make a decision, there are many people who say they are Chrisitian but really haven't made the decision yet, we will know them by their fruit and some Jesus will say... I knew you not.

 

[Edward]

I feel I may have worded my question badly...as so far no one is really addressing the issue.
I'm intersted in the decision process. What goes through a persons mind when they choose to accept or reject....There are reasons why a person would choose a particular college over another. What are the reasons why a person would choose Christ or reject Christ.

Oh I see. Well, many reasons (all bad). My earthly dad rejected his faith after his wife left and they were divorced. He blamed God for it. Others who never learned anything about delayed gratification would think...live for today who cares about after we die? The money is good, the girls sweet, lets live it up now...things like that.

In my mind, I chose Christ because I think it'd take an imbecile to reject such a gift and chance at life, real life. The world does have some nice things...but we're talking about God here, which is more than an Edward no matter how you slice it so it really is...choose death or choose life. I choose life. I fear God.

 

[WIP]

Both. I expect it to turn into a theological discussion. Do you wish to move it?

This is for everyone.
Remember this is the Theology forum. Arguments/points both for or in opposition need to be supported by Scripture.

 

[Cygnus]

Oh it can't be that hard to fill in the blank, the world has many temptations that people like to do. Some like stealing "free" money, some like lustful satisfaction with women (or men nowadays), some choose to be chronic inebriates through various means, still others look to money to be their God...people like different things.

When one gets introduced to Christianity and Jesus is accepted as Lord of your life, then a surrendering of the will and life is set before them and they realize that they're going to have to give up the lusts of the flesh and kill that old man...Most people will reckon themselves as good people because they don't go around robbing and murdering, but a romp with his neighbors wife is set up for this weekend...can I wait until monday? Some find it hard to give it all up. It's easy to justify many things as not so bad...what's wrong with getting drunk on the weekend at home? I'll go to work monday, no sweat. Nobody hurt, no adultery no stealing or lying. That line in the bible about drunkards isn't me, that's talking about alcoholics...The sin nature makes man search for loopholes, it's in the nature of sin. So they have a tendancy to only surrender 99%, or 75% of their life to the Lord so they can hold onto their "harmless" pursuits.

That's a choice and people make it everyday. I hear them defend it with stuff like, nah, I don't have to be a Jesus freak about it, but I believe in God and I'm saved, I can't understand the bible, but when Jesus comes then everything's going to be allright and we'll all be changed and better...like all they have to do is to believe, they don't have to read the Word, pray, help the poor or anything. And they continue to live their life...worldly. The old man is not dead to them. Scripture is replete with warnings about keeping the commandments, don't be lukewarm, study to show thyself approved, do no sin in secret and all sorts of stuff.

Revelation 3:16
Matthew 7:21-23
Matthew 25:10-12
Revelation 22:19

There is more, these are just a few off the top of my head. But the point is, that scripture says many people will be denied on the day of the Lord. No one ever wants to believe that it could be them. Oh I have faith...but many will be denied, and there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Be careful Brothers and Sisters, little white lies are as guilty as a serial murderer to God. Jesus will change us one day, but He does charge us to be ye holy, even as I am holy...this does mean now Brothers and Sisters, on earth as it is in heaven.

Good idea for a thread.

Thank you Edward.

 

[Cygnus]

Isn't Chrisitianity the only religion in the world where God seeks us? And the only true God. Pretty sure my dad told me that before.

I would agree 100%. In fact I might add it's the only "religion" where God is reaching down to man....rather than man reaching up to god.

In my mind, I chose Christ because I think it'd take an imbecile to reject such a gift and chance at life, real life. The world does have some nice things...but we're talking about God here, which is more than an Edward no matter how you slice it so it really is...choose death or choose life. I choose life. I fear God.

I wish this thread had a like button.

 

[Edward]

If God doesn't reveal himself to you, you won't get saved.

This has the ring of truth to it. I've pondered this before and came to the conclusion that...we might not actually become saved at the same time that we say the sinners prayer and invite Jesus into our heart and life. This may happen at a later time, after...some study to show ourselves approved? after some diligence in seeking Him? After He reveals Himself to you? Something like that.

I'm not 100% on this, but feel it could be a possibility.

 

[civilwarbuff]

This has the ring of truth to it. I've pondered this before and came to the conclusion that...we might not actually become saved at the same time that we say the sinners prayer and invite Jesus into our heart and life. This may happen at a later time, after...some study to show ourselves approved? after some diligence in seeking Him? After He reveals Himself to you? Something like that.

I'm not 100% on this, but feel it could be a possibility.

Joh 6:47 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life. ESV

 

[Cygnus]

This has the ring of truth to it. I've pondered this before and came to the conclusion that...we might not actually become saved at the same time that we say the sinners prayer and invite Jesus into our heart and life. This may happen at a later time, after...some study to show ourselves approved? after some diligence in seeking Him? After He reveals Himself to you? Something like that.

I'm not 100% on this, but feel it could be a possibility.

I would even say some people are saved before they say the "sinners" prayer. Sometimes way before.

Concerning salvation, I don't think we invite Jesus into our heart and life....but I'm getting nit-picky. I think we simply receive Jesus. Once we are in Christ then we ask Christ for help.
I'd like to post some verses for the mods, but I'm not dogmatic on what I posted and it's pretty much what I think.

 

[Edward]

Joh 6:47 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life. ESV

Exactly. It has to be the truth too. But...does one really believe (by God's standard) when one first accepts Him? Or does the true belief come after one has come to know Him some? After He has revealed some of Himself to them, answering their prayers, giving them some revelation about Himself and His Word...after some experience with Him...?

Let's use your wife as an example. Do you love her more now than at first? Do you trust her more now than you did at first? I'm guessing yes. Because after some time, a resume of trust is established, so belief in her words comes, that they're not just words...
It takes a bit of time to build a resume of trust.

 

[Edward]

I would even say some people are saved before they say the "sinners" prayer. Sometimes way before.

Concerning salvation, I don't think we invite Jesus into our heart and life....but I'm getting nit-picky. I think we simply receive Jesus. Once we are in Christ then we ask Christ for help.
I'd like to post some verses for the mods, but I'm not dogmatic on what I posted and it's pretty much what I think.

I'm doing the same thing. I posted a few scriptures, but it's no dogma yet, lol.

Once we are in Christ then we ask Christ for help...Not always! There are no atheists in foxholes. Many people reach out for help while walking through the valley of the shadow of death.

 

[DavidC]

I would even say some people are saved before they say the "sinners" prayer. Sometimes way before.

Concerning salvation, I don't think we invite Jesus into our heart and life....but I'm getting nit-picky. I think we simply receive Jesus. Once we are in Christ then we ask Christ for help.
I'd like to post some verses for the mods, but I'm not dogmatic on what I posted and it's pretty much what I think.

I would agree we don't invite nor say a sinners prayer as neither are Biblical, rather we agree with God that we are sinners and need a Savior, would you agree?

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

On the side of how God draws us to Him, or how He chooses us (the opposite side of your question), I don't think anyone can answer it because God is sovereign over everything and can lead someone to Him by their children (my grandmother claims this happened with my uncle leading her to Christianity), or God can take us through desperation to finally seek Him. (I'm aware of at least one raunch style program to help those trying to get away from drugs and their old lifestyle. I think like AA it has elements from Christian ministry and teaches Christianity as well.). Or God can grap the attention of a person who is fed up with everything about God but doesn't believe in Him. In that moment if God speaks to the indivual they might be shocked enough to reconsider. There are two many ways God can come to us. So I'm glad you've asked the reverse question. About our portion of the equation. How or why we choose God, or reject Him.

From a few conversations and my own experience these are what I've found. There is a growing rationelle that is negitive towards religion as a whole, as well as infusing it with the idea being modern, to progressively turn away from old traditions and ancient ideas. It has gotten to the point that people will turn away from anything Christian or religous-like without any consideration for it. (Much like how we are to turn from sin, fortune tellers, and witch stuff).

In this way this modern view is spoken about even in Jesus's day in His parable of the four soils. (Matthew 13:1-23, Mark 4:1-20, and Luke 8:1-15.). The first part of the parable and it's following explaination is throwing the seed to a hard path like ground. The seed doesn't take rook and is even taken from the path by birds. In this way Jesus explains later that those who hear the word but are confused by it's message or are hardened against it, even what they hear will be snatched up away from them by Satan. And those the first course of the choice to reject is by a confusion regarding the gospels.

Following along with that same parable Jesus give two other illustrations on how people reject the message. The seed (message of the Kingdom of God) falls on rocky ground. This ground is explained that the person who hear the message recieves it but nothing takes root because of the rocks. So in a similar way when hard times and perscution comes they turn away (or at least they produce no fruit). A conversation with a coworker reminds me of this decision process. She explained to me that she grew up in a Christian environment but eventually she turned away from it. It sounds like a combination of meeting a boy she fell in love with, her family's reaction to him and his beliefs, and her reaction to his beliefs and ideas compared to her parents harsh judgments at the time. Under this kind of preasure the look at is the faith real came up short for answers to stand against critism and to stand by in spit to her parent's reaction. As far as her perspective and anyone else in a simular sitution goes, she probably thinks she chose to turn from Christianity. I'm inclined to agree with that too. God let her go but she chose it.

The third seed fell among a soil of weeds. Distractions of wealth and worry. Perhaps this choking out of faith is the slowest process or perhaps it is there from the beginning and the person makes no room for their faith, their understanding, or their relationship with God to grow. Hopes, life chores, plans for the future. Talking to the same woman at work she walked away from Christianity, but did not adopt her boyfriend's faith (nature/pagan) she told me she might look into all that stuff again (including an experience she had that lets her know something like God is out there) but not right now. Not enough to time.

To add on that, though I am Christian I worry I am among the weeds as well. To many life focuses that I give less time for prayer and for God. As Christians that already accept Jesus, it it possible for us to lose that bond? God is ever patient so I hope not. None the less it is a warning from Jesus.

As for why we choose to accept Jesus. All I can speak from is my own experiences. I was raised in a home where both parents believe in God (though admitedly of different faiths). When I was younger I survived a hard head injury which my parents (and later I also) accept as an answer through prayers pleaded from family, and the community. While still young I found God answers my prayers and strengthened my faith. I can now from this say I have faith like Thomas. Seeing and believing. Later with these things in mind I descided to seek God and read the bible. I was unsure which faith was from Him but I would read the words from the prophets to find out, and if they pointed to Jesus or past Jewish prophets to Christianity or Islam or Baha'i then I would continue the search and readings. My search and conclusions make me think God will help us on this journey and help us with understanding scripture if we seek Him (our choice). I became a Christian out of this search and rejected the bridge to future faith that claim to worship God also. Now that I'm older and out in the world more I see the worries to survive and to meet the needs I think I need. Thus I know I'm not out of the woods yet, and hope God will hold to me, because I hope part of my choosing Him is that He chose me and won't let me go. This is my hope because I am weak in too many areas, sinful (hopefully not as much), and don't feel the awesome signs I thought I felt at one time concerning the Holy Spirit (nor ever known to hold the maraculous gifts attributed to having the Holy Spirit).

Thus from my point of view, from my life, I can see my choices and my stumbling in life and in faith. And I hope my personal narrative doesn't one day lead me away from God, because I see my choices with their impact with how close or far I've been to Him.

Not really a theological bit, but you asked why we choose. This is what I have to offer. Observations from life and conversations with others.

 

[FreeGrace]

I'm told a person has the ability to choose or reject Christ Jesus as their Lord and Savior.

My question is, what is that choice based upon? What factors run through a persons mind allowing them to accept Jesus or walk away from Jesus?

When we are looking for a car we have a filter in which we run our likes and dislikes about a particular car through so we make the best possible decision. There is reasons why we want a 2 door or a 4 door. A chevy or a Ford. A moon roof or no moon roof. Life's situation, our needs and desires, where we're at go into the decision. I have AWD's because I have a hill I need to get up when it snows.

Now, Choosing Jesus isn't like choosing a car...I understand that....but when we apply what I'm told is our free-will what is the basics for our choice to accept or reject Christ Jesus?

Thoughts???

I believe the issue begins with what God has already done for mankind.

Rom 1:19,20-
19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them.
20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

Recall from Rom 11:6 that one must realize that God exists before one will seek Him. Which is obvious.
"And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him."

This is why Cornelius had a visitor who told him how to receive more information. He believed that God existed and rewards those who earnestly seek Him. And seek Him he did. And he found Him. Why? Because He is not far from any one of us.

Acts 17:27 God did this so that they would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from any one of us.

So, since no one has any excuse for not seeking God, those who don't seek Him have no excuse for not doing so.

Those who do, like Cornelius, believe that God exists and rewards those who seek Him, will be given more information. Just like your example of why choosing an AWD vehicle. You want to get up the hill in the winter. Makes sense.

Now, those who believe that God exists, and rewards those who seek Him will understand that if they don't seek Him, instead of reward, they'll get the opposite, and they realize their need for being saved, even if they don't yet understand all the ramifications of what that even means.

It's those who don't believe that God exists (atheists, fools Psa 14:1-3) who don't believe they need to be saved. For them, there is nothing to be saved from.

So, the whole issue boils down to what individuals do with what God has already done for them; He has revealed Himself to everyone, and so no one has any excuse for not believing that God exists and rewards those who seek Him, and being thankful to Him as Creator (Rom 1:21).

No one is excused for claiming "I never heard the good news". Or "No one told me about Jesus". Or any other lame excuse.

There are countless stories gathered by Gideons International of people who came to faith by simply reading God's Word. No personal witnessing or anything else.

 

[billybalke]

I believe the issue begins with what God has already done for mankind.

Rom 1:19,20-
19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them.
20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

Recall from Rom 11:6 that one must realize that God exists before one will seek Him. Which is obvious.
"And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him."

This is why Cornelius had a visitor who told him how to receive more information. He believed that God existed and rewards those who earnestly seek Him. And seek Him he did. And he found Him. Why? Because He is not far from any one of us.

Acts 17:27 God did this so that they would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from any one of us.

So, since no one has any excuse for not seeking God, those who don't seek Him have no excuse for not doing so.

Those who do, like Cornelius, believe that God exists and rewards those who seek Him, will be given more information. Just like your example of why choosing an AWD vehicle. You want to get up the hill in the winter. Makes sense.

Now, those who believe that God exists, and rewards those who seek Him will understand that if they don't seek Him, instead of reward, they'll get the opposite, and they realize their need for being saved, even if they don't yet understand all the ramifications of what that even means.

It's those who don't believe that God exists (atheists, fools Psa 14:1-3) who don't believe they need to be saved. For them, there is nothing to be saved from.

So, the whole issue boils down to what individuals do with what God has already done for them; He has revealed Himself to everyone, and so no one has any excuse for not believing that God exists and rewards those who seek Him, and being thankful to Him as Creator (Rom 1:21).

No one is excused for claiming "I never heard the good news". Or "No one told me about Jesus". Or any other lame excuse.

There are countless stories gathered by Gideons International of people who came to faith by simply reading God's Word. No personal witnessing or anything else.

I'm told a person has the ability to choose or reject Christ Jesus as their Lord and Savior.

My question is, what is that choice based upon? What factors run through a persons mind allowing them to accept Jesus or walk away from Jesus?

When we are looking for a car we have a filter in which we run our likes and dislikes about a particular car through so we make the best possible decision. There is reasons why we want a 2 door or a 4 door. A chevy or a Ford. A moon roof or no moon roof. Life's situation, our needs and desires, where we're at go into the decision. I have AWD's because I have a hill I need to get up when it snows.

Now, Choosing Jesus isn't like choosing a car...I understand that....but when we apply what I'm told is our free-will what is the basics for our choice to accept or reject Christ Jesus?

Thoughts???

I'm told a person has the ability to choose or reject Christ Jesus as their Lord and Savior.

My question is, what is that choice based upon? What factors run through a persons mind allowing them to accept Jesus or walk away from Jesus?

When we are looking for a car we have a filter in which we run our likes and dislikes about a particular car through so we make the best possible decision. There is reasons why we want a 2 door or a 4 door. A chevy or a Ford. A moon roof or no moon roof. Life's situation, our needs and desires, where we're at go into the decision. I have AWD's because I have a hill I need to get up when it snows.

Now, Choosing Jesus isn't like choosing a car...I understand that....but when we apply what I'm told is our free-will what is the basics for our choice to accept or reject Christ Jesus?

Thoughts???

Yes, man has the ability to accept or reject Christ, so teaches Rev.3:20-22 for a starter.

 

[MarkT]

I'm told a person has the ability to choose or reject Christ Jesus as their Lord and Savior.

My question is, what is that choice based upon? What factors run through a persons mind allowing them to accept Jesus or walk away from Jesus?

When we are looking for a car we have a filter in which we run our likes and dislikes about a particular car through so we make the best possible decision. There is reasons why we want a 2 door or a 4 door. A chevy or a Ford. A moon roof or no moon roof. Life's situation, our needs and desires, where we're at go into the decision. I have AWD's because I have a hill I need to get up when it snows.

Now, Choosing Jesus isn't like choosing a car...I understand that....but when we apply what I'm told is our free-will what is the basics for our choice to accept or reject Christ Jesus?

Thoughts???

Isaiah 29:18
In that day the deaf shall hear the words of a book, and out of their gloom and darkness the eyes of the blind shall see.

Once you know something, it is diifficult to unknow it by force of will.

 

[Randy]

I'm told a person has the ability to choose or reject Christ Jesus as their Lord and Savior.

My question is, what is that choice based upon? What factors run through a persons mind allowing them to accept Jesus or walk away from Jesus?

When we are looking for a car we have a filter in which we run our likes and dislikes about a particular car through so we make the best possible decision. There is reasons why we want a 2 door or a 4 door. A chevy or a Ford. A moon roof or no moon roof. Life's situation, our needs and desires, where we're at go into the decision. I have AWD's because I have a hill I need to get up when it snows.

Now, Choosing Jesus isn't like choosing a car...I understand that....but when we apply what I'm told is our free-will what is the basics for our choice to accept or reject Christ Jesus?

Thoughts???

The Holy Spirit bears witness from the mind of the spirit and those that listen and learn from the FATher go to the Son. "They shall all be taught by GOD"
Jesus spoke of the one who sows the weeds and leads the whole world astray (an enemy of His)
Jesus also spoke of the seeds falling on different types of people.
MATT 13 NIV
“Listen then to what the parable of the sower means: 19When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in their heart. This is the seed sown along the path. 20The seed falling on rocky ground refers to someone who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. 21But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away. 22The seed falling among the thorns refers to someone who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, making it unfruitful. 23But the seed falling on good soil refers to someone who hears the word and understands it. This is the one who produces a crop, yielding a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown.”

 

[King Dan of Great the 1st]

Accept is good.

 

[stovebolts]

I feel I may have worded my question badly...as so far no one is really addressing the issue.
I'm intersted in the decision process. What goes through a persons mind when they choose to accept or reject....There are reasons why a person would choose a particular college over another. What are the reasons why a person would choose Christ or reject Christ.

LovethroughDove posted a great passage that broadly answers your question.

Why do I buy a 2 door and you buy a 4 door? Why do I like this type of music, and you like that type? We all have different reasons, so the answer will vary.

Some love money, some love sex. Some feel betrayed, some turned of by zealots. Some got religion crammed down their throat as kids and others saw the hypocracy. The list goes on and on.

God has made some vessels for honor, and some for destruction. Perhaps the question is bigger than we can adequtly put our finger on, but if we are a chosen people, and i believe we are, then we have a mission, and that mission is to be a light to the world.

When we live into our faith, and are shining and bringing glory to God, then at that point, perhaps we see a glimmer of the answer to the questions we ask.

 

[FreeGrace]

God has made some vessels for honor, and some for destruction.

Actually, not. Rom 9:22 says that the vessels of wrath were 'katartizo'. The word means to "mend, fix, repair, restore", or "retrofitted". And even though my lexicon identifies the word as being in the passive mood, the verb tense of the word is the same for both middle and passive voice.

So, it's entirely possible that the vessels themselves were the cause of being "prepared (retrofitted) for destruction" (middle voice).

What is clear is that God didn't make (create) them for destruction.

However, the next verse does say that the vessels of mercy were prepared in advance for glory.[/user]