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Why I disagree with Preterism

Malachi

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amil doesn't have any millennium
You should know your own eschatology a little bit better. From Wikipedia:
In contrast, the amillennial view holds that the thousand years mentioned in Revelation 20 is a
symbolic number, not a literal description; that the millennium has already begun and is identical with the current church age, (or more rarely, that it ended with the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70—see Preterism). Amillennialism holds that while Christ's reign during the millennium is spiritual in nature, at the end of the church age, Christ will return in final judgment and establish a permanent reign in the new heaven and new earth.
So once again Jason, if the Lord Jesus Christ is in absolute control, what is Satan doing running around and terrorising the world through the Jihadists? edited reba That's why you could not answer my question, but retorted with more questions.
 
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Malachi

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John's OP seems to be consistent with your interpretation of Preterism.
Fair enough. Just trying to be charitable to wishful thinkers.
 
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reba

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Please remember while posting.... There are different views on end times that fall into our Statement of Faith.. Please respect other members views , Disagree yup for sure but keep it respectful...
pre.... mid.... post trib... are all ok here... post trib includes partial preterism..

This post is not directed at any one .. it is posted because the activity is up. thanks reba
 

Kathi

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You should know your own eschatology a little bit better. From Wikipedia:

So once again Jason, if the Lord Jesus Christ is in absolute control, what is Satan doing running around and terrorising the world through the Jihadists? Doesn't that tell you that Amillenialism (which is associated with Preterism) is simply mythical "Wonderland" thinking? That's why you could not answer my question, but retorted with more questions.
God does have sovereign control over everything and everyone on this earth and that includes Satan.
 

Malachi

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God does have sovereign control over everything and everyone on this earth and that includes Satan.
There is a difference between sovereign control and absolute rule so that there is no sin and evil on earth, and universal peace and righteousness prevail in every corner of the globe.

No evil atheistic Communists, no criminals, no terrorists, no evildoers committing genocide, no prisons full of criminals, no wars, no corrupt politicians, etc. so that literally "the lion and the lamb" dwell together in peace. That is what we are talking about. That will not happen until the second coming of Christ, but Amillenialists and Preterists have perverted this truth. Read Isaiah 11:4-9 to see what I am talking about.

That is why I ask Jason, how come the Jihadists are chopping off heads and brutalizing hundreds of thousands if you claim that we are already in the Millenium?
 

Kathi

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Oh there is sin on this earth and Satan wants everyone to think he is in control but that is a lie.Just like Satan is a lie.He is a counterfeit and comes to this earth masqueraded as "the angel of light".He only has power if you give him power.Jesus and Satan are both referred in the Bible as "the morning star" do you know why?
 

turnorburn

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Preterism (full or in part) believes that most or all of Revelation (and therefore prophecy) has already been fulfilled. That the judgement on Jerusalem and the Jews in the First Century CE was the Great Tribulation and the final break away of God from those who reject Christ in Israel.
EDITED reba

tob
 
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Deborah13

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There is a difference between sovereign control and absolute rule so that there is no sin and evil on earth, and universal peace and righteousness prevail in every corner of the globe.

No evil atheistic Communists, no criminals, no terrorists, no evildoers committing genocide, no prisons full of criminals, no wars, no corrupt politicians, etc. so that literally "the lion and the lamb" dwell together in peace. That is what we are talking about. That will not happen until the second coming of Christ, but Amillenialists and Preterists have perverted this truth. Read Isaiah 11:4-9 to see what I am talking about.

That is why I ask Jason, how come the Jihadists are chopping off heads and brutalizing hundreds of thousands if you claim that we are already in the Millenium?
Continue reading....
Isa 11:9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.
Isa 11:10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.
Isa 11:11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.

Have all those in Christ come into that holy mountain that has a holy city? I think we have.
Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

Has the knowledge of Christ filled the earth? yes Paul said it was and with each generation it continues to be taught, the Gospel message.

v10 "that day" Did Jesus come as the root of Jesse, is He the Jewish Messiah, do the Gentiles seek Him? - Yes
AND in "that day" He shall come a second time to recover the remnant of His people.
This is the tricky one. It says in the same day, He will recover the remnant. Not some different day. All of this is done "that day", the same day.
 

reba

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Calling other Christians unbiblical is not going to fly.. ... I will be deleting such posts and DUH changing the title...
 

jasonc

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there can be no more discussion if Malach insists on insulting me. 1) I don't live in la-la land nor wonderland. im more aware of the sin of this so called Christian nation then you care to ponder.i have been overseas. I have seen mass graves. the amil doesn't teach the kingdom is on the earth now, that the lord is allowing the satan to do that. that is what I was told. there are versions of this stuff. just as there are versions of pre mil that teach the law returns. I met those guys, and listened to them.
 

Malachi

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This is the tricky one. It says in the same day, He will recover the remnant. Not some different day. All of this is done "that day", the same day.
Which day are you referring to? 70 AD? 32 AD? It seems that you are trying to say that the Church is Israel and Israel is the Church. So let's get down to cases, because you are misapplying Isaiah 11 (which must be taken factually and literally) when Christ is literally ruler over this earth and there is nothing but peace and righteousness (even in the animal kingdom):

1. Are wolves dwelling with lambs peacefully today (v 6)?
2. Are leopards lying down peacefully with kids today (v 6)?
3. Are calves, young lions, and fatlings grazing together in peace today (v 6)?
4. Are little children leading wild animals without danger today (v 6)?
5. Are cows and bears feeding together today (v 7)?
6. Are lions eating straw like the ox today (v 7)?
7. Are children playing with poisonous snakes today (v 8)?

Of course these are all rhetorical questions, but they demonstrate the absurdity of applying Isaiah 11 to the present evil world (which you have chosen to do).
 

reba

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Last warning if you wish to have this discussion, keep it with in the TOS. From this point snarks will result in post deletion.

2.4:. Do not make an inflammatory remark just to get a response. Address issues not personalities. Respect where people are in their spiritual walk, and respect all others in general. Respect where others are in their spiritual walk, do not disrupt the flow of discussion or act in a way that affects others negatively including when debating doctrinal issues, in the defense of the Christian faith, and in offering unwelcome spiritual advice.



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Malachi

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there can be no more discussion if Malach insists on insulting me
Jason,
I certainly did not mean to insult you personally, sp please accept my apologies. I'm just trying to show you the absurdity of Amillenialism, whichever version you accept. Please see my post above.
 

jasonc

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Jason,
I certainly did not mean to insult you personally, sp please accept my apologies. I'm just trying to show you the absurdity of Amillenialism, whichever version you accept. Please see my post above.
I can say the same with premil. I did that and you ignore that fact that free will NOT exist in that age. man cant sin and have mercy and grace given without some tolerance. ie if I don't fail to keep the feast I wont live. its there. its also in zechariah by implication. famine will kill men. that aint grace. but a judgement.
 

Allen Wynne

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I'm a dispensationalist.
Am I passe in believing this or do some still consider it relevant?
 

Deborah13

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Which day are you referring to? 70 AD? 32 AD? It seems that you are trying to say that the Church is Israel and Israel is the Church. So let's get down to cases, because you are misapplying Isaiah 11 (which must be taken factually and literally) when Christ is literally ruler over this earth and there is nothing but peace and righteousness (even in the animal kingdom):

1. Are wolves dwelling with lambs peacefully today (v 6)?
2. Are leopards lying down peacefully with kids today (v 6)?
3. Are calves, young lions, and fatlings grazing together in peace today (v 6)?
4. Are little children leading wild animals without danger today (v 6)?
5. Are cows and bears feeding together today (v 7)?
6. Are lions eating straw like the ox today (v 7)?
7. Are children playing with poisonous snakes today (v 8)?

Of course these are all rhetorical questions, but they demonstrate the absurdity of applying Isaiah 11 to the present evil world (which you have chosen to do).
Those verses are coming from a prophet. Remember Peter's vision.
Act 10:11 And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth:
Act 10:12 Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.
Did these animals represent real animals or people?
So I see that it is possible that animals can represent people or different kinds of people.
Usually in this type of scripture, I see the children represent the children of natural Israel.

I'd like to keep conversing but I don't want to be a part of getting this thread closed. So I will leave it to the rest of you. Blessing.

 

reba

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The topic can be discussed ... and those who snark and appear to just being jabbing can have their privileges altered.. Admin

This is for all the ET topics... any view....
 
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