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Why would Paul fear of losing his salvation

jonahmano

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But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway. 1 Corinthians 9:27


We know that Paul was a very devout person. Though he was a murder after his repentance and dedication for the work of saving souls by no means he would have chances to get disqualified atleast by our standards.

My question is

If salvation is such as simple in believing and confessing that Jesus is Lord and God raised Him from the dead then why would the Holy Spirit from the pen of Paul would write down this verse?
 

Eugene

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But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway. 1 Corinthians 9:27

We know that Paul was a very devout person. Though he was a murder after his repentance and dedication for the work of saving souls by no means he would have chances to get disqualified atleast by our standards.

My question is
If salvation is such as simple in believing and confessing that Jesus is Lord and God raised Him from the dead then why would the Holy Spirit from the pen of Paul would write down this verse?
I’m not sure you’re attempting to say Paul wasn't sure of his salvation, but the context of 1 Cor 9:27 has to do with reward, and that of qualifying to be in the bride.

The closest thing we could relate to our salvation out of that would be that of Php 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. Of course we know our salvation is the gift of God through believing on the Lord Jesus, but we have a spiritual walk as we learn to overcome the habit and dominion of sin as we follow after the Holy Spirit instead of our flesh.

1 Cor 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.

Php 3:8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
 

th1b.taylor

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But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway. 1 Corinthians 9:27


We know that Paul was a very devout person. Though he was a murder after his repentance and dedication for the work of saving souls by no means he would have chances to get disqualified atleast by our standards.

My question is

If salvation is such as simple in believing and confessing that Jesus is Lord and God raised Him from the dead then why would the Holy Spirit from the pen of Paul would write down this verse?
I'm just, publicly, displaying my OCD and adding to what Eugene has given you. So, very, many are un or under studied people claiming the Christ for their own and believing everybody that is saved is a member of the Bride and that is just not true. When we prayerfully meditate on the parable of the Wedding Feast. Jesus instructed us that the parable is like unto Heaven. In the picture painted but this parable, now remember, this is in Heaven, there are many guests and then there is the Bride. Every one that is saved will reside in Heaven for eternity so the "guests" will not be leaving after the Wedding Feast.

Now, place this verse, as Eugene has instructed and allow the light of this parable yo shine on it and I pray you can see, Paul was not concerned about losing his salvation.
 

JLB

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But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway. 1 Corinthians 9:27


We know that Paul was a very devout person. Though he was a murder after his repentance and dedication for the work of saving souls by no means he would have chances to get disqualified atleast by our standards.

My question is

If salvation is such as simple in believing and confessing that Jesus is Lord and God raised Him from the dead then why would the Holy Spirit from the pen of Paul would write down this verse?

:thumbsup
 

chessman

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Why would Paul fear of losing his salvation?

Who told you Paul feared of losing his salvation? If I were you, I’d be extremely skeptical of ANYONE that teaches this passage in any way/shape/form is Paul saying that he’s in “fear of losing his salvation”. Why? For many reasons; The Primarily reason is that the verse doesn’t say that Paul is in “fear of losing his salvation”. A Secondary reasons is that for Paul to be living in “fear of losing his salvation” goes against his numerous assertions to the contrary in many other Scriptures. The third reason is that salvation is not even the topic of that section of Scripture. I could list many more reasons but will stop there and explain these:
1. Plain and simple. The verse you posted doesn't say Paul feared for his salvation. It doesn’t even use the word “fear” or “salvation” or “lose”, etc. or anything like them. I can only assume you think “castaway” somehow is a metaphor for “losing salvation”. It’s not. Also, even if it were, Paul doesn’t say he’s fearful of being “castaway”. A much better translation, by the way, for the word is “disqualified” as the New KJV translation updates it and ALL the other modern translations use as well. Verse 27 completes his evidence of apostleship based on Paul “running the race”. But that’s not really the point. The point is, even the word “castaway” is not the same thing as “lose salvation”. And anybody that says that it is is frankly stretching this passage WAY beyond any proper exegesis of it. Just look at the commentaries on it and/or the titles of this section of Scripture. No translation listing titles even thinks this section of Scripture is talking about salvation. They all recognize it’s about Paul’s apostleship and Paul “striving for a crown” and “running a race” toward receiving that crown. And no published commentator that I am aware of (even the ones that staunchly believe it’s possible to lose salvation) thinks that Paul means the Greek word “adokimos” as a metaphor for “losing salvation”. They might very well point out this passage as one of those that teach you can lose your salvation but they stretch what Paul actually said by doing it (obviously). And they stretch even the context of the topic on to salvation. The point is, he’s NOT talking about salvation (or losing it) in the first place.

2. There are so many passages where Paul assures his readers of their salvation that it would not fit in one post. But I’ll just list a couple right around Chapter 9 for sake of brevity and reference some very clear ones that ARE on the topic of salvation specifically:
a. 10:13 But God is faithful, who will not permit you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but will also make a way out together with the temptation, so that you may be able to endure it.
b. 8:3 But if anyone loves God
[As Paul did], this one is known by Him [Jesus only judges wrathfully the ones He never knew].
c. Phil 1:6, Rom 8:38-39, Etc.​
If one wants to find out Paul’s opinion on salvation, why in the world would you not go to the very frequent sections of Scripture where he is on that topic??? It makes no sense to me to do otherwise. And if you actually think it through, for ‘commentators/teachers’ to so often use this one verse as a ‘proof text’ for how one can ‘lose salvation’ demonstrates (to me anyway) just how lacking the Bible is in any passages that come right out and say “fear the loss of your salvation”.​

3. Chapter 9 is not even on the topic of salvation. Chapter 9 is about Paul’s apostleship. It begins and ends (and everything in between) with Paul talking about (giving evidences for) Paul’s authority to be an apostle of the Lord like the other 12 were. “running the race” of apostleship to receive his “prize”. Here’s why:
a. Am I not an apostle? Have I not seen Jesus our Lord? Are you not my work in the Lord? 2 If to others I am not an apostle, yet indeed I am to you, for you are my seal of apostleship in the Lord. …
b. 24 Do you not know that those who run in the stadium all run, but one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may win.
In section 24-27 Paul’s concluding his point that he IS an apostle of the Lord’s and works just as hard as any of the rest (I’d argue a lot harder than the rest) at receiving his “crown”, his “prize” of an apostles victory. It has nothing to do with losing his salvation. Clearly.​

You've made no actual case in your OP, that it (verse 27) is Paul using some type of literary technique (analogic type language, if you will) to actually provide any counter evidence against it. So I’ll just leave it at the points I made above as to why this Scripture is NOT Paul saying he’s fearful of losing his salvation. You are obviously simply assuming “losing salvation” is what Paul meant by “castaway”. I’m assuming you’ve heard some commentator say the same thing. It is rather common. (Edited, ToS 2.14, do not dispute moderators actions in the public forums. Obadiah)

Oh, you had a question in your OP that I’ll provide my answer to (take it or leave it of course):

“If salvation is such as simple in believing and confessing that Jesus is Lord and God raised Him from the dead then why would the Holy Spirit from the pen of Paul would write down this verse?”

Because the Holy Spirit inspired Paul to explain to his students why he “ran the race” of his apostleship in the Lord so diligently as to “receive his prize”, that’s why.

My only question is if Paul actually did “fear of losing his salvation”, why in the world didn't he just come right out and say so? What's your answer?

He could have very easily said "I fear losing my salvation" here or anywhere else in the Holy Inspired Scriptures. But he NEVER does, to my knowledge.
 
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JLB

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Why would Paul fear of losing his salvation?

Who told you Paul feared of losing his salvation? If I were you, I’d be extremely skeptical of ANYONE that teaches this passage in any way/shape/form is Paul saying that he’s in “fear of losing his salvation”. Why? For many reasons; And they stretch even the context of the topic on to salvation. The point is, he’s NOT talking about salvation (or losing it) in the first place.
Oh, you had a question in your OP that I’ll provide my answer to (take it or leave it of course):

“If salvation is such as simple in believing and confessing that Jesus is Lord and God raised Him from the dead then why would the Holy Spirit from the pen of Paul would write down this verse?”

Because the Holy Spirit inspired Paul to explain to his students why he “ran the race” of his apostleship in the Lord so diligently as to “receive his prize”, that’s why.

My only question is if Paul actually did “fear of losing his salvation”, why in the world didn't he just come right out and say so? What's your answer?

He could have very easily said "I fear losing my salvation" here or anywhere else in the Holy Inspired Scriptures. But he NEVER does, to my knowledge.



jonahmano said -
But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway. 1 Corinthians 9:27


We know that Paul was a very devout person. Though he was a murder after his repentance and dedication for the work of saving souls by no means he would have chances to get disqualified atleast by our standards.

My question is

If salvation is such as simple in believing and confessing that Jesus is Lord and God raised Him from the dead then why would the Holy Spirit from the pen of Paul would write down this verse?




Where in this person's post do they say "Paul feared losing his salvation"?

However, it is clear that Paul did not assume that he himself had somehow "arrived'!



Jonahmano clearly said The Holy Spirit inspired Paul to pen these words...


Let's examine the context in which Paul write these words, a see if we should take heed to his admonition?

But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified. Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, 2 all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, 3 all ate the same spiritual food, 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ. 5 But with most of them God was not well pleased, for their bodies were scattered in the wilderness. 6 Now these things became our examples, to the intent that we should not lust after evil things as they also lusted. 7 And do not become idolaters as were some of them. As it is written, "The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play." 8 Nor let us commit sexual immorality, as some of them did, and in one day twenty-three thousand fell; 9 nor let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed by serpents; 10 nor complain, as some of them also complained, and were destroyed by the destroyer. 11 Now all these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages have come. 12 Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall. 1 Corinthians 9:27-10:11

The context is clear.

Salvation is the subject of Paul's words in verse 27!


To me it is crystal clear that Paul had salvation in mind when he wrote these words that The Holy Spirit inspired him to write, as jonahmano pointed out to us!


As he wrote to the Galatians -

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-20

... Nor let us commit sexual immorality, as some of them did,

Those that turn from the truth and practice things such as sexual immorality, without repenting will not inherit the kingdom of God!

Paul absolutely did not take his salvation for granted, and encouraged others not to presumptuously take it for granted as well.


Thank you jonahmano for speaking the truth and writing it!

Amen!


JLB

 

Eugene

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Alright, we have come back to the duck; it’s an OSAS quacker. If it walks and sounds like a duck, it’s probably another assault on our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage. Lions and tigers and bears? . . . a duck by any other name is still a duck? Us birds of a feather flocked together unite to uphold our right to the kingdom.

Isa 54:17 No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and their righteousness is of me, saith the LORD.
YAY! ! ! :sohappy
 

JLB

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Alright, we have come back to the duck; it’s an OSAS quacker. If it walks and sounds like a duck, it’s probably another assault on our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage. Lions and tigers and bears? . . . a duck by any other name is still a duck? Us birds of a feather flocked together unite to uphold our right to the kingdom.

Isa 54:17 No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and their righteousness is of me, saith the LORD.
YAY! ! ! :sohappy


Eugene,

Could you address my post and what I wrote.

Please point out where you disagree with any of the scriptures I used, and how I perceived what Paul has said.


Thanks JLB
 

th1b.taylor

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Eugene,

Could you address my post and what I wrote.

Please point out where you disagree with any of the scriptures I used, and how I perceived what Paul has said.


Thanks JLB
JLB.
While he did so in the style of a parble, attempt not to argue, he directly addressed your as I see it. The issue you are incorrect about is contained in the last sentence of the OP. And as Eugene said, ifit walks like andquacks like a duck, it's likely a duck.
 

chessman

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Where in this person's post do they say "Paul feared losing his salvation"?
Umm, in the Title. The question assumes Paul was fearful for his salvation, then asks why.

Like a prosecutor asking a defendant; "Why did you beat your wife?". It's dis-allowed in court (or in logical debate) when the goal is to establish whether or not the defendant actually did beat his wife (or fear salvation in this case). The proper method for finding truth is to first establish that he did beat (or fear), then ask why.
 

JLB

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JLB.
While he did so in the style of a parble, attempt not to argue, he directly addressed your as I see it. The issue you are incorrect about is contained in the last sentence of the OP. And as Eugene said, ifit walks like andquacks like a duck, it's likely a duck.


Brother, I don't see where he or you addressed my post or the scriptural context that was presented.

By the way, I'm not OSAS.

My post does not represent OSAS.

Notice what Eugene wrote -

Alright, we have come back to the duck; it’s an OSAS quacker

My post does not represent OSAS.

Let's let what Paul wrote speak for itself.

But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified. Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, 3 all ate the same spiritual food, and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ. But with most of them God was not well pleased, for their bodies were scattered in the wilderness. Now these things became our examples, to the intent that we should not lust after evil things as they also lusted. And do not become idolaters as were some of them. As it is written, "The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play." Nor let us commit sexual immorality, as some of them did, and in one day twenty-three thousand fell; nor let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed by serpents; nor complain, as some of them also complained, and were destroyed by the destroyer. Now all these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages have come. 1 Corinthians 9:27-10:11

Paul equates those who practice idolatry and sexual immorality, with not inheriting the kingdom of God.


19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-20


Those who practice Idolatry will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Those who practice a sexually immoral lifestyle will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Those who practice such things will become disqualified.

That is why Paul said he disciplines his body, so that he himself would not become disqualified.


JLB
 

JLB

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Umm, in the Title. The question assumes Paul was fearful for his salvation, then asks why.

Like a prosecutor asking a defendant; "Why did you beat your wife?". It's dis-allowed in court (or in logical debate) when the goal is to establish whether or not the defendant actually did beat his wife (or fear salvation in this case). The proper method for finding truth is to first establish that he did beat (or fear), then ask why.


Did his post contain the phrase "why would Paul fear losing his salvation?

Let's address his post.

Could you address my post?


Thanks JLB
 

JLB

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Alright, we have come back to the duck; it’s an OSAS quacker. If it walks and sounds like a duck, it’s probably another assault on our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage. Lions and tigers and bears? . . . a duck by any other name is still a duck? Us birds of a feather flocked together unite to uphold our right to the kingdom.

Isa 54:17 No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and their righteousness is of me, saith the LORD.
YAY! ! ! :sohappy


Do you believe that "No weapon formed against you will prosper"?


JLB
 

Eugene

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Eugene,
Could you address my post and what I wrote.
Disagree? :hysterical

@JLB - Where in this person's post do they say "Paul feared losing his salvation"?

@jonahmano - If salvation is such as simple in believing and confessing that Jesus is Lord and God raised Him from the dead then why would the Holy Spirit from the pen of Paul would write down this verse?

However, it is clear that Paul did not assume that he himself had somehow "arrived'!
Hi again Brother JLB. I can read no other meaning into @jonahamano’s statement than to believe he is saying our salvation is based on works, and there is the possibility of losing it. I hope I am wrong.

@JLB - Jonahmano clearly said The Holy Spirit inspired Paul to pen these words...

Let's examine the context in which Paul write these words, a see if we should take heed to his admonition?

But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified. Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, 2 all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, 3 all ate the same spiritual food, 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ. 5 But with most of them God was not well pleased, for their bodies were scattered in the wilderness. 6 Now these things became our examples, to the intent that we should not lust after evil things as they also lusted. 7 And do not become idolaters as were some of them. As it is written, "The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play." 8 Nor let us commit sexual immorality, as some of them did, and in one day twenty-three thousand fell; 9 nor let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed by serpents; 10 nor complain, as some of them also complained, and were destroyed by the destroyer. 11 Now all these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages have come. 12 Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall. 1 Corinthians 9:27-10:11

The context is clear.

Salvation is the subject of Paul's words in verse 27!

To me it is crystal clear that Paul had salvation in mind when he wrote these words that The Holy Spirit inspired him to write, as jonahmano pointed out to us!

@Eugene Have you considered the sin unto death, and its purpose? Moses suffered such a consequence. There is also disqualification due to our actions in our spiritual walk. Num 20:12. And the LORD spake unto Moses and Aaron, Because ye believed me not, to sanctify me in the eyes of the children of Israel, therefore ye shall not bring this congregation into the land which I have given them. Do you think Moses is in heaven?

What of the man of 1 Cor 5:5? To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. Later the church was told to allow him back into fellowship.

As I say, there are only two of the seven churches of Revelation that are said to have crowns. Brother @chessman wrote: “They all recognize it’s about Paul’s apostleship and Paul “striving for a crown” and “running a race” toward receiving that crown.

Brother @th1b.taylor wrote: “Many are un or under studied people claiming the Christ for their own and believing everybody that is saved is a member of the Bride and that is just not true. When we prayerfully meditate on the parable of the Wedding Feast. Jesus instructed us that the parable is like unto Heaven. In the picture painted but this parable, now remember, this is in Heaven, there are many guests and then there is the Bride. Every one that is saved will reside in Heaven for eternity so the "guests" will not be leaving after the Wedding Feast.

@JLB - As he wrote to the Galatians -
19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-20
... Nor let us commit sexual immorality, as some of them did,

Those that turn from the truth and practice things such as sexual immorality, without repenting will not inherit the kingdom of God!

Paul absolutely did not take his salvation for granted, and encouraged others not to presumptuously take it for granted as well.
@Eugene
-But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. No, I do not encourage others to presumptuously take their salvation for granted; hopefully they are emboldened to give credit where credit is due, and that is in Jesus Christ; the captain of our salvation; not themselves boasting of their great works.

@Eugene - Even in OSAS we must read 1 Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. We all need the Savior. Being in Christ, are we considered born of God?

1 Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

And there is the promise of 1 Jn 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not (That’s me only because of Jesus); but He (Jesus) that is begotten of God keepeth himself (His body of believers), and that wicked one (Satan) toucheth him not. God sees us only in His Son, but I am aware of the adage “A person convinced against their will is of the same opinion still. I then have no problem with those the eat not, keep days, and whatever because we’re told in Rom 14:3 & Rom 14:6, they do it as unto the Lord and are received by Him. :)

Blessings in Christ Jesus.
 

JLB

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Disagree? :hysterical

@JLB - Where in this person's post do they say "Paul feared losing his salvation"?

@jonahmano - If salvation is such as simple in believing and confessing that Jesus is Lord and God raised Him from the dead then why would the Holy Spirit from the pen of Paul would write down this verse?

However, it is clear that Paul did not assume that he himself had somehow "arrived'!
Hi again Brother JLB. I can read no other meaning into @jonahamano’s statement than to believe he is saying our salvation is based on works, and there is the possibility of losing it. I hope I am wrong.

@JLB - Jonahmano clearly said The Holy Spirit inspired Paul to pen these words...

Let's examine the context in which Paul write these words, a see if we should take heed to his admonition?

But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified. Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, 2 all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, 3 all ate the same spiritual food, 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ. 5 But with most of them God was not well pleased, for their bodies were scattered in the wilderness. 6 Now these things became our examples, to the intent that we should not lust after evil things as they also lusted. 7 And do not become idolaters as were some of them. As it is written, "The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play." 8 Nor let us commit sexual immorality, as some of them did, and in one day twenty-three thousand fell; 9 nor let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed by serpents; 10 nor complain, as some of them also complained, and were destroyed by the destroyer. 11 Now all these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages have come. 12 Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall. 1 Corinthians 9:27-10:11

The context is clear.

Salvation is the subject of Paul's words in verse 27!

To me it is crystal clear that Paul had salvation in mind when he wrote these words that The Holy Spirit inspired him to write, as jonahmano pointed out to us!

@Eugene Have you considered the sin unto death, and its purpose? Moses suffered such a consequence. There is also disqualification due to our actions in our spiritual walk. Num 20:12. And the LORD spake unto Moses and Aaron, Because ye believed me not, to sanctify me in the eyes of the children of Israel, therefore ye shall not bring this congregation into the land which I have given them. Do you think Moses is in heaven?

What of the man of 1 Cor 5:5? To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. Later the church was told to allow him back into fellowship.

As I say, there are only two of the seven churches of Revelation that are said to have crowns. Brother @chessman wrote: “They all recognize it’s about Paul’s apostleship and Paul “striving for a crown” and “running a race” toward receiving that crown.

Brother @th1b.taylor wrote: “Many are un or under studied people claiming the Christ for their own and believing everybody that is saved is a member of the Bride and that is just not true. When we prayerfully meditate on the parable of the Wedding Feast. Jesus instructed us that the parable is like unto Heaven. In the picture painted but this parable, now remember, this is in Heaven, there are many guests and then there is the Bride. Every one that is saved will reside in Heaven for eternity so the "guests" will not be leaving after the Wedding Feast.

@JLB - As he wrote to the Galatians -
19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-20
... Nor let us commit sexual immorality, as some of them did,

Those that turn from the truth and practice things such as sexual immorality, without repenting will not inherit the kingdom of God!

Paul absolutely did not take his salvation for granted, and encouraged others not to presumptuously take it for granted as well.
@Eugene
-But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. No, I do not encourage others to presumptuously take their salvation for granted; hopefully they are emboldened to give credit where credit is due, and that is in Jesus Christ; the captain of our salvation; not themselves boasting of their great works.

@Eugene - Even in OSAS we must read 1 Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. We all need the Savior. Being in Christ, are we considered born of God?

1 Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

And there is the promise of 1 Jn 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not (That’s me only because of Jesus); but He (Jesus) that is begotten of God keepeth himself (His body of believers), and that wicked one (Satan) toucheth him not. God sees us only in His Son, but I am aware of the adage “A person convinced against their will is of the same opinion still. I then have no problem with those the eat not, keep days, and whatever because we’re told in Rom 14:3 & Rom 14:6, they do it as unto the Lord and are received by Him. :)

Blessings in Christ Jesus.

What you have above is kinda jumbled. :shrug

I don't really understand what your intent is.


Could you comment on the words that Paul wrote in context with his phrase he wrote that says - But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified.


Let's examine the context in which Paul write these words, a see if we should take heed to his admonition?

But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified. Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, 2 all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, 3 all ate the same spiritual food, 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ. 5 But with most of them God was not well pleased, for their bodies were scattered in the wilderness. 6 Now these things became our examples, to the intent that we should not lust after evil things as they also lusted. 7 And do not become idolaters as were some of them. As it is written, "The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play." 8 Nor let us commit sexual immorality, as some of them did, and in one day twenty-three thousand fell; 9 nor let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed by serpents; 10 nor complain, as some of them also complained, and were destroyed by the destroyer. 11 Now all these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages have come. 12 Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall. 1 Corinthians 9:27-10:11

The context is clear.

Salvation is the subject of Paul's words in verse 27!

To me it is crystal clear that Paul had salvation in mind when he wrote these words that The Holy Spirit inspired him to write, as jonahmano pointed out to us!


JLB
 

Eugene

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What you have above is kinda jumbled. :shrug

I don't really understand what your intent is.

The context is clear.

Salvation is the subject of Paul's words in verse 27!

To me it is crystal clear that Paul had salvation in mind when he wrote these words that The Holy Spirit inspired him to write, as jonahmano pointed out to us!
That's fine brother. Blessings to you. thanks for your responses. :)
 

chessman

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Did his post contain the phrase "why would Paul fear losing his salvation?
Yes. He created the title for the OP Thread: “Why would Paul fear of losing his salvation”

I’m surprised you missed that, especially since I pointed it out. And as I said, it’s an assumption on his part that Paul feared [of] losing his salvation. An assumption that’s NOT been shown to be true and I doubt it can be shown to be true. I showed where it cannot be true if Scripture is congruent with itself via other equally Holy inspired statements of Paul that are on the subject of salvation, by the way. Would address that point?
Let's address his post.
I did. See Post #5 where I made the following points:
1. “The verse doesn’t say Paul feared for his salvation”.
2. If Paul really did “fear of losing his salvation” then why did he say otherwise in his multiple statements such as:
Phil 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
Rom 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, 39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God…
3. The context of verse 27 is clearly about Paul’s apostleship.
Could you address my post?
Yes. But I doubt you’ll like. But here goes:
The context is clear.
Salvation is the subject of Paul's words in verse 27!
I first noticed you come to the conclusion that “salvation” is the subject of Paul’s words in verse 27. I disagree totally with that conclusion, but I did read and consider what you had to say about it. Here’s why:

Note: You might notice that when I italicize words in my posts, I do so highlighting they are God’s word within my points. Hopefully, I’m not doing that out of context. If I do, it’s by accident or mistake and I’d appreciate correction. It is quite easy sometimes to take a verse out of its intended context (unintentionally or intentionally).

First, if you don’t mind, can you specifically point out what verse within chapter 9 (or 10 for that matter) has Paul using the word “salvation” or “fear”? I don’t find it. That would be really, really helpful toward your case that the topic is “salvation” or “fear”.

In my post I simply highlighted Paul’s “apostleship in the Lord” and Paul’s “work in the Lord” as evidence to establish the context of this chapter. Thinking that just a couple of examples would be enough for any objective reader and to keep my post to a reasonable length. Plus I made mention that the Bible publishers’ titles of this chapter support the fact that the subject is Paul’s apostleship (not salvation). Frankly, it’s so obvious that Paul’s Apostleship is the topic of Chapter 9 that I wouldn’t expect anyone to disagree. But I guess you do.

The fact is/remains, that his topic; Paul’s work in the Lord as a called (commanded even) Lord’s apostle, is mentioned so often, it's all over that chapter. Similar to the Title of this thread being the topic of discussion (and you missing that), Paul's Topic is titled by most translations.
In verse 19, Paul says this:
19 For although I am free from all people, I have enslaved myself to all, in order that I may gain more.

Gain more what? Gain more Salvation or reward? Reward/crowns, brother, is the answer. Again, Paul’s still clearly on the topic of his working in the Lord as an apostle, working toward receiving an imperishable crown which he mentions again in verse 25 (right before the verse 27 in question). They clearly go together.

Verses 24-27 is clearly Paul wrapping up this topic using an analogy of “running in the stadium” to “receive the prize” for which he’s clearly qualified for (not “disqualified”).

So again, verse 27 is not on the topic of salvation, but rather being “disqualified” as an apostle, working in the Lord. If you are un-willing to accept any of that evidence and/or re-evaluate this chapter’s topic, then I don’t know what else to say that would convince you. Maybe your mind’s already made up on this verse and there’s really nothing that will change it.

But in reply toward comments/evidence within your counter/opposing evidential case going into chapter 10 I have the following observations:

I did see where you went into chapter 10 highlighting some phrases and ending with the phrase “lest he fall”.

Once again, I assume you think Paul’s use of the phrase “lest he fall” is an allusion to “lest he become unsaved” or something of that sort? I don’t. Here’s why:

First I notice that you didn’t highlight the fact that as this new chapter begins Paul says “Moreover”, meaning “in addition to” which is probably why the editors start a new chapter there and those that use titles, title this additional topic: “A History Lesson from Israel”. They do so, most likely because Paul says:
I do not want you to be ignorant, brothers, that our fathers were [History from Israel’s time being led by Moses] all under the cloud and all went through the sea, 2 and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, 3 and all ate the same spiritual food, 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink.” … “Now these things happened as examples [Lesson] for us”
So, I’m thinking they get this about right. Do you?

But looking through all the words you highlighted within this “additional” text to verse 27, it’s not obvious (and I’ve tried thinking about it fairly) how that builds upon (provides any evidence for) your conclusion that the topic/context of chapter 9’s verse 27 is “salvation”. Except of course where you end at verse 11 with the phrase “lest he fall”.

Okay, I see why you are trying to tie verse 9:27 to 10:12. You somehow think "lest he fall" ties in with "disqualified/castaway". I don't. Here's why:

It simply must be noted that the phrase “lest he fall” is talking about (on the subject of) the ancient Israelites along with Moses were "falling" into various “temptations” whereas the phrase “I myself should become disqualified” is talking about (on the topic of) Paul’s race toward an imperishable crown of his Apostleship in the Lord. Not exactly the same subject. Me thinks you are pulling this phrase from the Moreover (additional text) into the Pauline Apostleship text of Chapte 9. And doing so for obvious reasons searching for something, ever so slim, that could possibly have Paul fearful of losing his salvation. It’s just not there either.

So, can you make the case that Paul meant for us to understand that the Israelites that “fell” in history are an example/lesson for us is in anyway about Paul’s fearful loss of “salvation” or not? You’ve not made any kind of case for that.

I’m thinking the next verse (that you left out) pretty much excludes this possibility (which is probably why you stopped at 12 rather than posting verse 13 which is Paul’s conclusion of the History Lesson from Israel. And it’s NOT Paul warning us about losing our salvation. It’s a warning (and example) about Temptations!

13 Temptation has not come upon you except what is common to humanity.
I’m thinking Paul’s point is that temptation to sin (like “thinking he stands”, BTW) is common to humanity. Temptations will come to the Christian, just like they did to the Israelites. I’m also thinking that even though we are tempted and at times “fall” into sins, like “thinking we stand” when in reality it’s God that does:
God is faithful, who will not permit you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but will also make a way out together with the temptation, so that you may be able to endure it.

I’m thinking just like those from history that were “baptized into Moses in the cloud”, us NT Christians that are “baptized into Christ” and indwelled with the Holy Spirit are also tempted and at times similarly “fall”. Yet we know (or should) that God is faithful and will (not might) “make a way out” and we will “endure” it and not fall from His salvation. Otherwise, it’s not just us that fall from salvation, but Christ. And it’s impossible for Christ to fall from salvation. For Christ to be tempted, however, is possible.

Oh, and then you pull into Paul’s working in the Lord toward his apostleship crown passage, the Galatians passage ending with the phrase “will not inherit the kingdom of God”.
Umm….???? I thought you were trying to build a case toward “salvation” being in context of 1 Cor 9:27 verse. What exactly, does Galatians 5 have to do with that case? But relative to the Galatian’s situation, I’m pretty sure that Paul the Working in the Lord Apostle that he was mentioned to them that; those who belong to Christ have crucified the flesh together with its feelings and its desires. Which frankly, fits in quite well with Paul NOT fearing for his salvation as all Scripture should and does.

For you to have any real proof/evidence that Paul was on the subject of “salvation” when he said “I myself should become disqualified” (which you and jonahmano think is Paul alluding to his loss of salvation), you really need to show it via Scripture for me to believe it. Then you could show where Paul feared that loss of salvation. But neither of you have.
 
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JLB

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Yes. He created the title for the OP Thread: “Why would Paul fear of losing his salvation”

I’m surprised you missed that, especially since I pointed it out. And as I said, it’s an assumption on his part that Paul feared [of] losing his salvation. An assumption that’s NOT been shown to be true and I doubt it can be shown to be true. I showed where it cannot be true if Scripture is congruent with itself via other equally Holy inspired statements of Paul that are on the subject of salvation, by the way. Would address that point?
I did. See Post #5 where I made the following points:
1. “The verse doesn’t say Paul feared for his salvation”.
2. If Paul really did “fear of losing his salvation” then why did he say otherwise in his multiple statements such as:
Phil 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
Rom 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, 39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God…
3. The context of verse 27 is clearly about Paul’s apostleship.

Yes. But I doubt you’ll like. But here goes:
I first noticed you come to the conclusion that “salvation” is the subject of Paul’s words in verse 27. I disagree totally with that conclusion, but I did read and consider what you had to say about it. Here’s why:

Note: You might notice that when I italicize words in my posts, I do so highlighting they are God’s word within my points. Hopefully, I’m not doing that out of context. If I do, it’s by accident or mistake and I’d appreciate correction. It is quite easy sometimes to take a verse out of its intended context (unintentionally or intentionally).

First, if you don’t mind, can you specifically point out what verse within chapter 9 (or 10 for that matter) has Paul using the word “salvation” or “fear”? I don’t find it. That would be really, really helpful toward your case that the topic is “salvation” or “fear”.

In my post I simply highlighted Paul’s “apostleship in the Lord” and Paul’s “work in the Lord” as evidence to establish the context of this chapter. Thinking that just a couple of examples would be enough for any objective reader and to keep my post to a reasonable length. Plus I made mention that the Bible publishers’ titles of this chapter support the fact that the subject is Paul’s apostleship (not salvation). Frankly, it’s so obvious that Paul’s Apostleship is the topic of Chapter 9 that I wouldn’t expect anyone to disagree. But I guess you do.

The fact is/remains, that his topic; Paul’s work in the Lord as a called (commanded even) Lord’s apostle, is mentioned so often, it's all over that chapter. Similar to the Title of this thread being the topic of discussion (and you missing that), Paul's Topic is titled by most translations.
In verse 19, Paul says this:
19 For although I am free from all people, I have enslaved myself to all, in order that I may gain more.

Gain more what? Gain more Salvation or reward? Reward/crowns, brother, is the answer. Again, Paul’s still clearly on the topic of his working in the Lord as an apostle, working toward receiving an imperishable crown which he mentions again in verse 25 (right before the verse 27 in question). They clearly go together.

Verses 24-27 is clearly Paul wrapping up this topic using an analogy of “running in the stadium” to “receive the prize” for which he’s clearly qualified for (not “disqualified”).

So again, verse 27 is not on the topic of salvation, but rather being “disqualified” as an apostle, working in the Lord. If you are un-willing to accept any of that evidence and/or re-evaluate this chapter’s topic, then I don’t know what else to say that would convince you. Maybe your mind’s already made up on this verse and there’s really nothing that will change it.

But in reply toward comments/evidence within your counter/opposing evidential case going into chapter 10 I have the following observations:

I did see where you went into chapter 10 highlighting some phrases and ending with the phrase “lest he fall”.

Once again, I assume you think Paul’s use of the phrase “lest he fall” is an allusion to “lest he become unsaved” or something of that sort? I don’t. Here’s why:

First I notice that you didn’t highlight the fact that as this new chapter begins Paul says “Moreover”, meaning “in addition to” which is probably why the editors start a new chapter there and those that use titles, title this additional topic: “A History Lesson from Israel”. They do so, most likely because Paul says:
I do not want you to be ignorant, brothers, that our fathers were [History from Israel’s time being led by Moses] all under the cloud and all went through the sea, 2 and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, 3 and all ate the same spiritual food, 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink.” … “Now these things happened as examples [Lesson] for us”
So, I’m thinking they get this about right. Do you?

But looking through all the words you highlighted within this “additional” text to verse 27, it’s not obvious (and I’ve tried thinking about it fairly) how that builds upon (provides any evidence for) your conclusion that the topic/context of chapter 9’s verse 27 is “salvation”. Except of course where you end at verse 11 with the phrase “lest he fall”.

Okay, I see why you are trying to tie verse 9:27 to 10:12. You somehow think "lest he fall" ties in with "disqualified/castaway". I don't. Here's why:

It simply must be noted that the phrase “lest he fall” is talking about (on the subject of) the ancient Israelites along with Moses were "falling" into various “temptations” whereas the phrase “I myself should become disqualified” is talking about (on the topic of) Paul’s race toward an imperishable crown of his Apostleship in the Lord. Not exactly the same subject. Me thinks you are pulling this phrase from the Moreover (additional text) into the Pauline Apostleship text of Chapte 9. And doing so for obvious reasons searching for something, ever so slim, that could possibly have Paul fearful of losing his salvation. It’s just not there either.

So, can you make the case that Paul meant for us to understand that the Israelites that “fell” in history are an example/lesson for us is in anyway about Paul’s fearful loss of “salvation” or not? You’ve not made any kind of case for that.

I’m thinking the next verse (that you left out) pretty much excludes this possibility (which is probably why you stopped at 12 rather than posting verse 13 which is Paul’s conclusion of the History Lesson from Israel. And it’s NOT Paul warning us about losing our salvation. It’s a warning (and example) about Temptations!

13 Temptation has not come upon you except what is common to humanity.
I’m thinking Paul’s point is that temptation to sin (like “thinking he stands”, BTW) is common to humanity. Temptations will come to the Christian, just like they did to the Israelites. I’m also thinking that even though we are tempted and at times “fall” into sins, like “thinking we stand” when in reality it’s God that does:
God is faithful, who will not permit you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but will also make a way out together with the temptation, so that you may be able to endure it.

I’m thinking just like those from history that were “baptized into Moses in the cloud”, us NT Christians that are “baptized into Christ” and indwelled with the Holy Spirit are also tempted and at times similarly “fall”. Yet we know (or should) that God is faithful and will (not might) “make a way out” and we will “endure” it and not fall from His salvation. Otherwise, it’s not just us that fall from salvation, but Christ. And it’s impossible for Christ to fall from salvation. For Christ to be tempted, however, is possible.

Oh, and then you pull into Paul’s working in the Lord toward his apostleship crown passage, the Galatians passage ending with the phrase “will not inherit the kingdom of God”.
Umm….???? I thought you were trying to build a case toward “salvation” being in context of 1 Cor 9:27 verse. What exactly, does Galatians 5 have to do with that case? But relative to the Galatian’s situation, I’m pretty sure that Paul the Working in the Lord Apostle that he was mentioned to them that; .

Long long post, brother.

Let's look at what you said -

I first noticed you come to the conclusion that “salvation” is the subject of Paul’s words in verse 27. I disagree totally with that conclusion, but I did read and consider what you had to say about it. Here’s why:

Here's why ?

Because a "new" chapter starts?

As if Paul is talking about brand new subject!

The word MOREOVER ties what he just said to what he is about to say.

Idolatry, and sexual immorality are salvation issues that will disqualify a Christian from inheriting the kingdom of God.

This can not be refuted!

That us why you have an extremely long post that only tries to change the subject or worse, tries to insinuate that because it's a "new" chapter then it's a completely new subject.

I truly expect more from you.

You are an intelligent person with a good knowledge of the scriptures.


JLB
 

jonahmano

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I think you guys instead of postering me to a group or whatosover, please debate on the subject and not on persons like me or JLB

Instead of ignoring or speculating about the verse I quoted, it's good that you debate the matter else please leave it there are hundreds of people led by the Holy Spirit to clear my doubts.

If you guys saying that the word "fear" used by me is so irritating then it also irritates me when you just lighten the word "cast away" and say without any reason that it's not linked to salvation.

Thanks JLB for being on my side.
 

jonahmano

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Yes. He created the title for the OP Thread: “Why would Paul fear of losing his salvation”
Gain more what? Gain more Salvation or reward? Reward/crowns, brother, is the answer

So you mean that Christ's death on the cross is all for a crown(s) or rewards?(a material thing)?????
 
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