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Why?
- Thread starter Walpole
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Walpole
Member
Whether it's a statue of Santa or a statue of Jesus Christ or the Virgin Mary, they are permitted so long as they are not worshipped?
jasonc
Member
most protestants ,reformed don't have busts
the fact persons beatified Mary to the point of praying to her and saints ,is a form of worship .I can post photos I,took of st.helen with holly laid at her feet .
no protestants i know do that .having a crucifix of Jesus and not praying to it is different .I know the icon argument ,but funny how the rcc has skirted around the command to make images of angels in heaven ,I'm not talkimg about glass or frescoes .
in the past Christmas was considered idolatry but the puritan s and illegal in America .
I personally can see pro and cons bit again not many churches have them on their property ,only one I know did and that was a light display and it pointed always to the birth and itself focused on the birth and death .
one can argue that is not idolatry ,Yule and xmas itself ,Santa and his colors are actually from North myth ,they would be correct,also one can argue yes,but neither is it being idolized
We don't have any of these statues in our church. I don't know of any ruling that forbids them either. There is something that puzzles me.In Protestantism, why are these statues / images allowed...
But these aren't?
The first four images you posted are known imaginary figures. The other four are depicted to be supposed images of Mary, the mother of Jesus, and Jesus, the Christ. Fact is, Neither is true. They are some artist's rendition or vision of who they are. Nobody alive today knows what either one of them actually looked like so to make these images is an insult.
Additionally, God gave us a command with regard to making carved images to represent God or any other god.
“You shall have no other gods before Me. You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them."
Exodus 20:3-4 NKJV
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It's not only Protestant's, but Catholics also allow them so not sure what your point is.
It's only when we bow down and worship these statues and images, especially Mary, is it then putting all of this above God in whom only should we be bowing down to and worshiping. We worship in Spirit and truth, not in statues or images.
John 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
It's only when we bow down and worship these statues and images, especially Mary, is it then putting all of this above God in whom only should we be bowing down to and worshiping. We worship in Spirit and truth, not in statues or images.
John 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
We worship Teddy Bear at home. He is such a fun guy and always has the same smile. But we also worship our dog. We try to worship each other at home. It's a real house of worship!In Protestantism, why are these statues / images allowed...
But these aren't?
I'm not so sure I completely agree with you on this. If you ask anyone who the statues, figurines, and paintings are, they will most likely respond with the name of the person to whom the artist intended.
When I buy a new picture frame it often comes with a photo of someone that I have never seen before. I have no clue who it is and if asked, that is what I would tell you. But if someone looked at the last picture Walpole posted, you can have a pretty sure bet they will respond with, "It is Jesus."
It's not Jesus at all and the fact that so many of us would say or think the same thing, are we not making graven images of things that are in heaven above?
One of the things that bothers me, and I'm not pointing elsewhere for I too am included, is that at times we seem to try to split hairs with God. We say, "As long as we don't worship them blah, blah, blah," then we're okay but shouldn't we be considering the spirit of the commandment and not allow anything to come between our Holy Father and ourselves?
I also have to stand corrected and eat a little crow. I was not accurate when I said our church does not have these things for I forgot about a painting on the wall behind the altar in our church. It is one that depicts what is supposedly Jesus praying in the garden at Gethsemane. I forgot about it because I usually don't pay much attention to it being there even though it is quite large.
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Christ_empowered
Member
i dunno. I think it depends. the Presby church I grew up in had -0- images in the church. The stained glass windows were from the late 19th century (typical for the area), no faces or...wow, no people, now that I think about it. when Easter, then Christmas, came 'round, there might be a wooden cross outside, the 3 in the pulpit with the purple ribbon on the middle one...
other than that? nah, not so much. the only times there were teddy bears, santas, etc. was when the minister needed them for use as props for a sermon. other than that...
nope. nothin' doing.
other than that? nah, not so much. the only times there were teddy bears, santas, etc. was when the minister needed them for use as props for a sermon. other than that...
nope. nothin' doing.
If I pray with a picture of Jesus and the sacred heart for example...........
I don't think of it as worshiping "the image". I'm worshipping Jesus Christ as described in the Bible. The picture is just a stimulus, a prayer aid, if you will. It helps people focus better on prayer imo.
Humble Soul (cathaholic )
I don't think of it as worshiping "the image". I'm worshipping Jesus Christ as described in the Bible. The picture is just a stimulus, a prayer aid, if you will. It helps people focus better on prayer imo.
Humble Soul (cathaholic )
jasonc
Member
pm me the location ,I bet I have a copy of the church you are talking about history .pre revolutionary war
Maybe, but really, why? Would it not be better if we put more effort into focusing on our Lord, Jesus? Why do we need an inanimate object in order to focus our attention? Isn't that a form of worship? Perhaps this is an example of splitting hairs with God? Scripture says it is good to meditate on the Word of God. See Psalm 1 for example. Remember, when we pray let us go into our room, close the door, and pray to our Father who is in the secret place. (ref. Matthew 6:6)
And again, "the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. Now He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God." Romans 8:26-27 NKJV
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Scripture is full of references to God wanting us to know Him, not just the idea of him in our heads. It sounds like you don't believe God is literally with you, hearing your prayers, listening to you, encouraging you, etc. or you just aren't convinced or sure about it so then you need an inanimate image of some kind to focus on instead. What does that sound like? Sounds to me like it could be a mild form of worship.
Maybe, like me, you need to ask God to increase your faith and remove all doubt. Know Him personally rather than just some made up idea of Him.
Hebrews 11:1
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. NKJV
Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see. NIV
Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. NRSV
Now faith is the certainty of things hoped for, a proof of things not seen. NASB
Actually what I was referencing to and should have given scripture is that of Exodus 20:3-6.I'm not so sure I completely agree with you on this. If you ask anyone who the statues, figurines, and paintings are, they will most likely respond with the name of the person to whom the artist intended.
When I buy a new picture frame it often comes with a photo of someone that I have never seen before. I have no clue who it is and if asked, that is what I would tell you. But if someone looked at the last picture Walpole posted, you can have a pretty sure bet they will respond with, "It is Jesus."
It's not Jesus at all and the fact that so many of us would say or think the same thing, are we not making graven images of things that are in heaven above?
One of the things that bothers me, and I'm not pointing elsewhere for I too am included, is that at times we seem to try to split hairs with God. We say, "As long as we don't worship them blah, blah, blah," then we're okay but shouldn't we be considering the spirit of the commandment and not allow anything to come between our Holy Father and ourselves?
I also have to stand corrected and eat a little crow. I was not accurate when I said our church does not have these things for I forgot about a painting on the wall behind the altar in our church. It is one that depicts what is supposedly Jesus praying in the garden at Gethsemane. I forgot about it because I usually don't pay much attention to it being there even though it is quite large.
As per all the pics an example is like those who worship the Bible more than they do God. IMO there is nothing wrong with having these things as long as they are put in the right perspective.
Yes, there are Bible worshippers too. Perspective is important.
Image? You mean like a picture of what He looks like? Not possible because He hasn't given me anything along those lines but I don't need a physical human-like or other image to know He is real. To actually write a simple description of God is as difficult as He is infinite. I know He is loving, kind, gracious, forgiving, awesome, almighty, bountiful, generous, beautiful, compassionate, faithful, powerful, sacrificial, holy.....and the list goes on an on.