S
Soma-Sight
Guest
If you somehow were timewarped back to Skull Rock just before the Cross and could save Jesus from the agony of Death, would you step in?
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Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
A
aiki
Guest
Matthew 16:21-23 - "From that time forth began Jesus to show unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day. Then Peter took him and began to rebuke him saying, 'Be it far from you, Lord: this shall not be unto you.' But he turned and said unto Peter, 'Get you behind me, Satan: you are an offense to me: for you savour not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.'"
If I stood at the foot of the Cross of Calvary at the moment of my Saviour's crucifixion and had the post-Calvary understanding of what he was doing that I do, I don't think I would interfere. I would not want my Saviour saying to me, "Get behind me, Satan." Besides, I'm sure I would be too burdened with the crushing weight of the knowledge that my sins put him there to do anything but try not to burst from the shame and sorrow of that knowledge.
In Christ, Aiki.
If I stood at the foot of the Cross of Calvary at the moment of my Saviour's crucifixion and had the post-Calvary understanding of what he was doing that I do, I don't think I would interfere. I would not want my Saviour saying to me, "Get behind me, Satan." Besides, I'm sure I would be too burdened with the crushing weight of the knowledge that my sins put him there to do anything but try not to burst from the shame and sorrow of that knowledge.
In Christ, Aiki.
Blazin Bones
Member
Soma, why do you seek to deface the Son of God with such a question? Our salvation was a gift Christ gave, and He did it willingly. Why then do you seek to tell Him His gift wasn't necessary? You, Instead of being thankful for His sacrifice, seem to think you could have saved yourself without the cross.
Soma, I'm calling your Bluff. Who do you serve? The Messiah, who gave His life for you? If so, why do you seek to belittle His gift with such a question?
Soma, I'm calling your Bluff. Who do you serve? The Messiah, who gave His life for you? If so, why do you seek to belittle His gift with such a question?
K
KnarfKS
Guest
I wouldn't try and step into stop a plan God had since the creation of man. It usually doesn't go well with people who try and get in God's way...
Aiki, excellent answer
Aiki, excellent answer
J
jgarden_47
Guest
"The stone the builders rejected has become the capstone; the Lord has done this, and it is marvelous in our eyes." (Psalm 118:22).
Read the Parable of the Tenants - the key part begins at Matthew 21:41
Jesus - "Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do those tenants?" (who killed his son)
Chief priests, elders -"' He will bring those wretches to a wretched end,' they replied, 'and he will rent the vineyard to other tenants who will give him his share of a crop at harvest time.'"
Jesus - "Jesus said to them ,"Have you never read the Scriptures:
"The stone the builders rejected has become the capstone; the Lord has done this, and it is marvelous in our eyes." (Psalm 118:22).
Jesus - "Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit.........
When the chief priests and the Pharisees heard Jesus' parables, they knew he was talking about them."
Jesus' parable predicts His own death and resurrection as part of God's plan. It is He who is the owner's son, God the owner and the religious leaders as the tenants. Jesus' parable serves notice to all that He is the "stone" that the "builders" will reject.
Remarkably, it was the religious leaders that were instrumental in orchestrating His death, who passed judgment on themselves.
Read the Parable of the Tenants - the key part begins at Matthew 21:41
Jesus - "Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do those tenants?" (who killed his son)
Chief priests, elders -"' He will bring those wretches to a wretched end,' they replied, 'and he will rent the vineyard to other tenants who will give him his share of a crop at harvest time.'"
Jesus - "Jesus said to them ,"Have you never read the Scriptures:
"The stone the builders rejected has become the capstone; the Lord has done this, and it is marvelous in our eyes." (Psalm 118:22).
Jesus - "Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit.........
When the chief priests and the Pharisees heard Jesus' parables, they knew he was talking about them."
Jesus' parable predicts His own death and resurrection as part of God's plan. It is He who is the owner's son, God the owner and the religious leaders as the tenants. Jesus' parable serves notice to all that He is the "stone" that the "builders" will reject.
Remarkably, it was the religious leaders that were instrumental in orchestrating His death, who passed judgment on themselves.
L
Lyric's Dad
Guest
My thoughts exactly. The options given were even worded to sound very blasphemous. I certainly will not take part in this little poll.Brutus/HisCatalyst said:Soma, why do you seek to deface the Son of God with such a question? Our salvation was a gift Christ gave, and He did it willingly. Why then do you seek to tell Him His gift wasn't necessary? You, Instead of being thankful for His sacrifice, seem to think you could have saved yourself without the cross.
Soma, I'm calling your Bluff. Who do you serve? The Messiah, who gave His life for you? If so, why do you seek to belittle His gift with such a question?
S
Soma-Sight
Guest
Aww come on guys.....
You got me all wrong!!!!!
I just am an imaginative person and given this strange circumstance I am just curious how people would react....
Dont add anything other than what the question states!!!!
I mean think of it.....
You have all the disciples hiding and running with their tale between their legs.... would you do the same thing? It is a tough question for the Christian and one that can bring great benefit in quite meditation on the character of your soul in relation to the Creator......
Do you worship a living God or a Doctrine?????
L
Lyric's Dad
Guest
The disciples ran because they did not yet have the Spirit of God within them. Once they did they were the most bold people around and the majority of them died horrific deaths to seal their testimony of the Living Savior Jesus Christ.Soma-Sight said:
I don't have to read much to see that you have no respect for Jesus and that is why I will not respond to your poll. Had you bothered to word your answers in such a way that they were not blasphemous and condescending I would have given you my answer.
:
K
Kathy
Guest
I believe we all would've done exactly as the disciples did. We all would of been running and hiding. All things happened at that time exactly as the scriptures testified in the OT that they would happen. Also Jesus told pilot himself "you have no power only what my Father in heaven gives you".
Peter was told by Jesus "satan has asked permision to sift you but I have prayed that you would not fall and when you are converted go and tell the brethern".
and Peter did go on to hide , to deny Christ three times before the cock crowed. But it was also Peter that stood up in the upper room and spoke boldly after the 120 received the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
The sifting process is necessary for each and every one of us. And all things happened just as our Father planned them to happen.
But we can know too that we will come through the sifting process just as Peter did because "Jesus prayed for him".
Jesus also prayed for us. The prayer in John 17 shows that Jesus prayed for those the Father had given him and not for those ones only but for all that will come after.
If we as follower's of Jesus Christ lived back in the day when He was literally crucified then we too would of done exactly as the disciples had done. For they did not yet have their understanding opened to them. They knew what Jesus had told them. But they did not yet understand it. Most the things that were said to them was beyond their carnal understanding.
It wasn't until after Jesus was ressurected and they saw the empty tomb and they saw Jesus appear in the midst of them etc that you read "and they remembered what the Lord had said to them".
It was when they "experienced" these things that their "spiritual understanding" was opened to them. Even before the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
Today is no different. We can know with our minds. We can speak with our lips. But it doesn't become our reality until we truly "experience " for ourselves.
We receive the "seal" and desposit of the Holy Spirit when we are baptised in the Holy Spiirt. Do we need to "physically die" to seal our testimony of the Living Saviour Jesus Christ?
John on the Isle of Patmos lived to be a ripe old age. Does this mean his testimony for Jesus Christ was not yet sealed? Even after the receiving of the Revelation of Jesus Christ when He was caught up in the spirit?
"and they loved not their lives even unto death". The disciples had completely died to self. Christ was fully formed within. They loved the Lord more than they love even their own physical life even unto death.
you don't need to die physically to seal our testimony of Jesus Christ. But we will be willing to die physically for our testimony of Jesus Christ because of our Love for Him and for our Father.
All things you read about in the scriptures need to be fulfilled within. As the Kingdom of God is within. We too need to die to self. Crucify the flesh. Overcome the carnal beastly adamic nature. To decrease as He increases within us.It is about spiritual growth. All things are but types and shadows of the spiritual. And what must take place spiritually within each of us.
Do you think John on the Isle of Patmos was alive? or dead? He was in fact both. He was "physically alive" His flesh and blood body was alive. But John the carnal man, the old man , the man of corruption was very much dead. He had passed from death into life. He had reached a place in the spiritual realm where he heard the call to "come up hither" and I will show you......
This place is a real place that all can attain to , even while still living in this physical flesh and blood body.
Life and death is not about "the physical body" for it is just a tent. Life and death pertains to the "spiritual man" within each of us.
As in Adam all die. The human race is actually the "physically alive but spiritual dead" This life we are physcially living in the earth is actually the realm of death. That is why LIfe must swallow up death! And JESUS CHRIST is the LIFE! We are either dead in our physical mortal bodies or we are alive in our physical mortal bodies.
Jesus said "let the dead bury the dead" In other words "let the spiritually dead bury the physically dead".
All things happened exactly as they had to happen. And each one of us will go through the sifting process as well.
It was our Father that sent Jesus to die on the cross. It was "HIS IDEA" and Jesus knew this. That is why HE LAYED DOWN HIS LIFE for His Father.
"if it be possible let this cup pass from me , never the less NOT MY WILL but Thine be done".
Jesus knew it wasn't about His physcial body. He knew that his physcial body would be ressurected. He was with the Father before the foundation of the world. He KNEW he would be ressurected. It was the willingness to "go through it". For the sake of HIS BRETHERN.
And that we all must die to self . Completely and wholly die to self. So that it is "not I that lives but Christ lives in me". Jesus Christ will be ressurected within each and every one of us.
Jesus came to show us the WAY. All things had to happen just as they did or else there would be no hope for us today.
It truly has nothing to do with "physical death" But all things are but types and shadows of what must happen" within " in the spiritual realm.
Jesus Willingly layed His life down. WE must also do the same. Doesn't mean we need to die in the physical for this to happen,, but if we have to we will do that too. It is the dying to self that Jesus showed us and that is what this is all about. And then we will hear the call "come up hither and I will show you ........."
There is a place in the spiritual realm where we can attain to now.( the transfiguration was BEFORE the crucifixtion) It is our only true reality. As all things of this world are temperal and will pass away.
Kathy
Peter was told by Jesus "satan has asked permision to sift you but I have prayed that you would not fall and when you are converted go and tell the brethern".
and Peter did go on to hide , to deny Christ three times before the cock crowed. But it was also Peter that stood up in the upper room and spoke boldly after the 120 received the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
The sifting process is necessary for each and every one of us. And all things happened just as our Father planned them to happen.
But we can know too that we will come through the sifting process just as Peter did because "Jesus prayed for him".
Jesus also prayed for us. The prayer in John 17 shows that Jesus prayed for those the Father had given him and not for those ones only but for all that will come after.
If we as follower's of Jesus Christ lived back in the day when He was literally crucified then we too would of done exactly as the disciples had done. For they did not yet have their understanding opened to them. They knew what Jesus had told them. But they did not yet understand it. Most the things that were said to them was beyond their carnal understanding.
It wasn't until after Jesus was ressurected and they saw the empty tomb and they saw Jesus appear in the midst of them etc that you read "and they remembered what the Lord had said to them".
It was when they "experienced" these things that their "spiritual understanding" was opened to them. Even before the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
Today is no different. We can know with our minds. We can speak with our lips. But it doesn't become our reality until we truly "experience " for ourselves.
We receive the "seal" and desposit of the Holy Spirit when we are baptised in the Holy Spiirt. Do we need to "physically die" to seal our testimony of the Living Saviour Jesus Christ?
John on the Isle of Patmos lived to be a ripe old age. Does this mean his testimony for Jesus Christ was not yet sealed? Even after the receiving of the Revelation of Jesus Christ when He was caught up in the spirit?
"and they loved not their lives even unto death". The disciples had completely died to self. Christ was fully formed within. They loved the Lord more than they love even their own physical life even unto death.
you don't need to die physically to seal our testimony of Jesus Christ. But we will be willing to die physically for our testimony of Jesus Christ because of our Love for Him and for our Father.
All things you read about in the scriptures need to be fulfilled within. As the Kingdom of God is within. We too need to die to self. Crucify the flesh. Overcome the carnal beastly adamic nature. To decrease as He increases within us.It is about spiritual growth. All things are but types and shadows of the spiritual. And what must take place spiritually within each of us.
Do you think John on the Isle of Patmos was alive? or dead? He was in fact both. He was "physically alive" His flesh and blood body was alive. But John the carnal man, the old man , the man of corruption was very much dead. He had passed from death into life. He had reached a place in the spiritual realm where he heard the call to "come up hither" and I will show you......
This place is a real place that all can attain to , even while still living in this physical flesh and blood body.
Life and death is not about "the physical body" for it is just a tent. Life and death pertains to the "spiritual man" within each of us.
As in Adam all die. The human race is actually the "physically alive but spiritual dead" This life we are physcially living in the earth is actually the realm of death. That is why LIfe must swallow up death! And JESUS CHRIST is the LIFE! We are either dead in our physical mortal bodies or we are alive in our physical mortal bodies.
Jesus said "let the dead bury the dead" In other words "let the spiritually dead bury the physically dead".
All things happened exactly as they had to happen. And each one of us will go through the sifting process as well.
It was our Father that sent Jesus to die on the cross. It was "HIS IDEA" and Jesus knew this. That is why HE LAYED DOWN HIS LIFE for His Father.
"if it be possible let this cup pass from me , never the less NOT MY WILL but Thine be done".
Jesus knew it wasn't about His physcial body. He knew that his physcial body would be ressurected. He was with the Father before the foundation of the world. He KNEW he would be ressurected. It was the willingness to "go through it". For the sake of HIS BRETHERN.
And that we all must die to self . Completely and wholly die to self. So that it is "not I that lives but Christ lives in me". Jesus Christ will be ressurected within each and every one of us.
Jesus came to show us the WAY. All things had to happen just as they did or else there would be no hope for us today.
It truly has nothing to do with "physical death" But all things are but types and shadows of what must happen" within " in the spiritual realm.
Jesus Willingly layed His life down. WE must also do the same. Doesn't mean we need to die in the physical for this to happen,, but if we have to we will do that too. It is the dying to self that Jesus showed us and that is what this is all about. And then we will hear the call "come up hither and I will show you ........."
There is a place in the spiritual realm where we can attain to now.( the transfiguration was BEFORE the crucifixtion) It is our only true reality. As all things of this world are temperal and will pass away.
Kathy
N
Nicolaj
Guest
What kind of poll is this?
No one will stop Gods will.
No one will stop Gods will.
M
matt
Guest
This is a very dumb thread. 
: You have to be a moron if you would even consider saving Christ. If you did we'd all be doomed to hell.
: You have to be a moron if you would even consider saving Christ. If you did we'd all be doomed to hell.
G
GundamZero
Guest
Stop! Stop! Stop! Cut! Cut! :o
Soma didn't answer Brutus' question. :-?
Soma come back here! 8-)
Do you serve Christ or Satan?
Soma didn't answer Brutus' question. :-?
Soma come back here! 8-)
Do you serve Christ or Satan?
J
jgarden_47
Guest
Saving Christ 2 000 years ago isn't the issue. The world would kill him again today if He returned - and Christians would be there, front and center, cheering His executioners on.
L
Lyric's Dad
Guest
That is a pretty bold statement but one that is made in haste. For one, there cannot be a Christian until the Lord has made the sacrifice so there would not be a single Christian cheering it on.jamesgarden_47 said:
Blazin Bones
Member
Soma-Sight said:
I worship the Lamb who was slain for my sin and yet my benefit.
Soma I don't think I have you all wrong. Time after time you have posted threads questioning the hearts of Christains, when it's quite clear you can't even settle your own. Here you are again, passing judgment on the Disciples. Instead of thanking the Lord for His Son, you belittle the sacrifice by trashing those who made it possible for us to know God's truth today.
Look what Jesus said to Peter, when Peter tried to change God's plan. Matthew 16:21-23. Does that mean anything to you, Soma?
S
Soma-Sight
Guest
I dont judge anyone on this matter!!!
This is an INDIVIDUAL chioce that has benefits for BOTH paths of action.
I respect your zealotry but believe you need to take a more objectifyable appoach when dealing with struggling souls that lack intelligence such as myself.....
I have serious questions and dont mean to seem like I am patronizing anyone for there choice to watch their Saviour crucified if they were warped back in time.. I hope you realize that this is a HYPOTHETICAL question that will never take place but it OPENS YOUR HEART to the character you posses and your intent in being a disciple...
It was quite obvious from MANY scriptures that Christ did not want to die and would have been grateful for another alternative other than what took place.... Just as He was grateful for the one who carried His Cross for Him when He was tired.
There is a VERY human side to Christ. I hope you can see that it is my intent in this post...
Blazin Bones
Member
Soma, I hoep you realize, that Christ rebuked Peter for this kind of thought. Did you even read the Scripture I gave to you last? While I had no right to have the Lamb slain for me, I Will Not belittle the gift of Christ.
Think of it this way Soma. Do you think you are better than God himself? God watched His blameless Son die for you and I. To say that I would take Christ from the Cross would say that I would do something better than God.
Think of it this way Soma. Do you think you are better than God himself? God watched His blameless Son die for you and I. To say that I would take Christ from the Cross would say that I would do something better than God.