atpollard
Member
- Nov 30, 2016
- 1,930
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There has been too much time wasted on peripheral issues like ...
So let us seek to answer instead, what exactly it means to be “saved”. Does saved mean that our sins are forgiven (as is often preached from the pulpit), or does “saved” mean we have undergone a far more fundamental transformation.
[John 3:3-21 NIV]
“BORN again” is not a small change. Nicodemus had memorized the entire Old Testament scripture by the age of 12 and was a student of Gamaliel (as was Saul of Tarsus). So when Nicodemus questions Jesus it is not because he is ignorant, rather it is because what Jesus has spoken is deeply profound. Jesus did not call for a repentance to again set the old man on the path to the kingdom of God. Jesus called for a complete “reincarnation” ... A second birth. The old man can never see the kingdom of God. Man must be born all over again, as God created Adam, to see the kingdom of God. So Nicodemus asked a very good question ... HOW CAN WE BE BORN A SECOND TIME?
The wages of sin is death and we have all sinned.
Death is not a punishment for our sin, because a punishment is given. Death is not “given” to us, rather we have worked hard to EARN it. It is our payment for services rendered. God owes us our wages ... death.
So it is that all men die, their wages paid for their efforts.
That is why we require a second birth to see the kingdom of God. What part does one have in their first birth? Whose choice is our first birth? Who can choose to accept or decline their first birth?
Why do we imagine our second birth suddenly becomes all about the power and will and choices of the baby being born? If it was all about our choice, why would Jesus use such a poor analogy as “birth”?
On the other hand, what if “born again” is about the death of the old man of flesh and the birth of a completely new man of spirit? Shedding the old and putting on the new. Then the analogy makes sense. We were once dead men walking in our sin. God paid our wages to us and we died (spiritually to the old man and literally in the flesh at some future appointed date). IN CHRIST (a critical expression) we have been born a new spiritual man in the kingdom of God (now) and will receive a new glorified body at some future appointed date.
Every man dies as receipt of the wages he earned for his own sin, making it a just death. Jesus alone died an unjust death because He alone had no sin and was owed no debt. Therefore, God righted that unjust death by raising from death the Christ who unjustly died. By His power, Jesus Christ raises from the dead all who are IN HIM ... In Christ.
The cross is not about Jesus paying for our sins, like we owed something to God, rather it is about Jesus defeating DEATH itself and leading those of us in Christ into a spiritual rebirth into a new life.
- Do people choose God before God chooses them, or does God choose people before they choose Him?
- Who did Jesus die for, His sheep or all sheep and goats?
- Can we refuse the will of God?
- Can we loose our salvation?
So let us seek to answer instead, what exactly it means to be “saved”. Does saved mean that our sins are forgiven (as is often preached from the pulpit), or does “saved” mean we have undergone a far more fundamental transformation.
[John 3:3-21 NIV]
3 Jesus replied, "Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again."
4 "How can someone be born when they are old?" Nicodemus asked. "Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother's womb to be born!" 5 Jesus answered, "Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7 You should not be surprised at my saying, 'You must be born again.' 8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit."
9 "How can this be?" Nicodemus asked. 10 "You are Israel's teacher," said Jesus, "and do you not understand these things? 11 Very truly I tell you, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony. 12 I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things? 13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven--the Son of Man. 14 Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15 that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him."
16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God's one and only Son. 19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. 21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God.
“BORN again” is not a small change. Nicodemus had memorized the entire Old Testament scripture by the age of 12 and was a student of Gamaliel (as was Saul of Tarsus). So when Nicodemus questions Jesus it is not because he is ignorant, rather it is because what Jesus has spoken is deeply profound. Jesus did not call for a repentance to again set the old man on the path to the kingdom of God. Jesus called for a complete “reincarnation” ... A second birth. The old man can never see the kingdom of God. Man must be born all over again, as God created Adam, to see the kingdom of God. So Nicodemus asked a very good question ... HOW CAN WE BE BORN A SECOND TIME?
The wages of sin is death and we have all sinned.
Death is not a punishment for our sin, because a punishment is given. Death is not “given” to us, rather we have worked hard to EARN it. It is our payment for services rendered. God owes us our wages ... death.
So it is that all men die, their wages paid for their efforts.
That is why we require a second birth to see the kingdom of God. What part does one have in their first birth? Whose choice is our first birth? Who can choose to accept or decline their first birth?
Why do we imagine our second birth suddenly becomes all about the power and will and choices of the baby being born? If it was all about our choice, why would Jesus use such a poor analogy as “birth”?
On the other hand, what if “born again” is about the death of the old man of flesh and the birth of a completely new man of spirit? Shedding the old and putting on the new. Then the analogy makes sense. We were once dead men walking in our sin. God paid our wages to us and we died (spiritually to the old man and literally in the flesh at some future appointed date). IN CHRIST (a critical expression) we have been born a new spiritual man in the kingdom of God (now) and will receive a new glorified body at some future appointed date.
Every man dies as receipt of the wages he earned for his own sin, making it a just death. Jesus alone died an unjust death because He alone had no sin and was owed no debt. Therefore, God righted that unjust death by raising from death the Christ who unjustly died. By His power, Jesus Christ raises from the dead all who are IN HIM ... In Christ.
The cross is not about Jesus paying for our sins, like we owed something to God, rather it is about Jesus defeating DEATH itself and leading those of us in Christ into a spiritual rebirth into a new life.